I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

Uh. No. It's been stated that Action Combat will have less RNG.

Dygz wrote: »

Uh. No. It's been stated that Action Combat will have less RNG.

And that is stated my my post . Still shouldn't be able to run backwards not look at who you are targeting in pvp and just mash attacks. 0 skill involved and complete easy mode on kiting, unless melee classes can heavily slow down you from running full speed.

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

Then what exactly is the point of having Action Combat? Again if there is no difference between the two then no one is going to use action at all because aiming your skills no matter how great your aim is, will never be a for sure thing like tab targeting in GW2. Then you have a situation where no one uses action because it's not guaranteed. So I disagree, if you're trying to make it so both things are viable, especially in pvp then action combat should have an advantage over tab targeting because it requires more skill to aim, lead and predict movements.

Action combat doesn't need an inherent benefit in PvP, it will be used in PvP regardless because it is better suited to PvP than tab target combat is.

Noaani wrote: »

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

Then what exactly is the point of having Action Combat? Again if there is no difference between the two then no one is going to use action at all because aiming your skills no matter how great your aim is, will never be a for sure thing like tab targeting in GW2. Then you have a situation where no one uses action because it's not guaranteed. So I disagree, if you're trying to make it so both things are viable, especially in pvp then action combat should have an advantage over tab targeting because it requires more skill to aim, lead and predict movements.

Action combat doesn't need an inherent benefit in PvP, it will be used in PvP regardless because it is better suited to PvP than tab target combat is.

That is not true, being able to run at full speed without needing to use aim to shoot someone or look in their direction and use all your skills to attack and kite will easily beat action combat.

Its pretty clear even if you have a miss chance you can move out of action combat attacks while doing max damage. How would action combat have an advantage over that they both work the same except one you miss and one you do not.

Only element that is better suited is the fun aspect over everything always hitting your target and adds more skill curves and just a more fun experience to most people.

Doesn't necessarily beat an Action Combat player. That still depends on how you've built your character.
If an Action Combat player character has Passive Skills that mitigate Tab Target abilities, the Tab Target abilities will be mitigated.
Same for gear.

Both Action Combat and Tab Target abilities can miss.

Ludullu

This whole discussion can be nipped in the bud by a single mechanic - detargeting. Give several classes different ways to detarget their enemy and you'll have yourself a pvp mechanic that requires tab players to be always looking at their enemy, otherwise they won't be able to hit them.

Can't be nipped in the bud...
Like Corruption... test it and see for yourself, but...
Some people are still going to whine until we test it.

Only element that is better suited is it is more fun, rathe

Dygz wrote: »

Doesn't necessarily beat an Action Combat player. That still depends on how you've built your character.
If an Action Combat player character has Passive Skills that mitigate Tab Target abilities, the Tab Target abilities will be mitigated.
Same for gear.

Both Action Combat and Tab Target abilities can miss.

That could be a thing but we don't know stats till we see it. The will be the main point when Alpha 2 releases and testing so they get the right balance. Though I don't think we will see stronger balance points until more towards the end of alpha 2 and in beta 1.

I tested some of that in Alpha One.

Selo

Are you in the right forum Mag7spy?
Seems that you want a FPS game like Counter Strike or Battlefield rather than an mmorpg with all the "360 noscopes" and "skillshots"
The game will die so extremly fast with a way to high skillceiling.

I rather lower the skillceiling and have an even playinground for the masses than having a skillceiling only 10% of the playerbase can excel at.
I find combat where i use my "attackskills" positiioning and tactics more fun than where i land more headshots than my enemy.

Selo wrote: »

Are you in the right forum Mag7spy?
Seems that you want a FPS game like Counter Strike or Battlefield rather than an mmorpg with all the "360 noscopes" and "skillshots"
The game will die so extremly fast with a way to high skillceiling.

I rather lower the skillceiling and have an even playinground for the masses than having a skillceiling only 10% of the playerbase can excel at.
I find combat where i use my "attackskills" positiioning and tactics more fun than where i land more headshots than my enemy.

Please quote me where I said headshot. Typical comment trying to skew what I'm saying to mean something else all together.

Though yes i want a high skill ceiling with in-depth combat where you can dodge, use skills and out play people. I want it to the point where if you are bad at the game you can't beat a player that is good 100% of the time with equal gear or less gear. *ie if you are both lvl 50 if someone has better gear than you there is still a chance to win if you are skilled. I want a reason for people to learn the game systems and learn the combat as well so its something people can have fun improve on and playing generally.

I just find it interesting how you think attack skills, positioning and tactics aren't a thing when you have a good combat system in game. Granted I find it interested because I'm sure you know that those exist in it but you are worried you can't keep up with more skilled people, so you want to lower to skill ceiling so its a lot more basic. You don't need to be the hero, gameplay is balanced for groups, just like you will fight good players you can meet good players to work with as well.

You have a false perception that because its action its going to be overly fast where you can't keep up but that isn't true they will balance speed at a fair rate. And you have tab you can use anyway if you want a more easy mode.

Mag7spy wrote: »

That is not true, being able to run at full speed without needing to use aim to shoot someone or look in their direction and use all your skills to attack and kite will easily beat action combat.

The only way you could think this is if you do not understand tab targets inherent weaknesses over action combat.

I am not about to illustrate these to anyone. If you wish to spec mostly tab in Ashes for what you perceive as a PvP benefit, have at it.

CROW3

NiKr wrote: »

This whole discussion can be nipped in the bud by a single mechanic - detargeting. Give several classes different ways to detarget their enemy and you'll have yourself a pvp mechanic that requires tab players to be always looking at their enemy, otherwise they won't be able to hit them.

Not sure if it will nip it in the bud, but agree on the detargeting. In WoW, Feign death for hunters and vanish / smoke bomb for rogues were incredibly helpful in arena (and frustrating when fighting those classes).

I was going to say one of the biggest advantages to action combat is that my swing can connect with an opponent independent of my focus/target. Accidentally de-targeting an opponent in arena and not connecting an attack at a critical moment was just frustrating AF.

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

That is not true, being able to run at full speed without needing to use aim to shoot someone or look in their direction and use all your skills to attack and kite will easily beat action combat.

The only way you could think this is if you do not understand tab targets inherent weaknesses over action combat.

I am not about to illustrate these to anyone. If you wish to spec mostly tab in Ashes for what you perceive as a PvP benefit, have at it.

Back peddling at full speed and shooting arrows at someone without needing to aim or look in even their general direction. As you can walk away from their skills and have some of them miss you because of the player missing a attack on top of it. While you are able to do maximum damage to them does not make any sense on how you see a benefit for a action based melee player. The effort they have to put in to be as effective is night and day compared to tab when it comes to pvp.

Actually like most people I'll just give feed back and people can do plenty of test and show the amount of damage and ease of combat through testing when using tab. People will talk about it and things will get balanced further so there are more benefits for the action skills you are using.

Common sense would say if you use a skill that you can miss and the person can dodge, there should be more benefits than using a skill that automatically hits the target while your camera isn't even facing them and you are running forward to kite. Its like saying I have aim bot but you have a sword so its ok and balanced.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

Can't be nipped in the bud...

CROW3 wrote: »

Not sure if it will nip it in the bud, but agree on the detargeting. In WoW, Feign death for hunters and vanish / smoke bomb for rogues were incredibly helpful in arena (and frustrating when fighting those classes).

I meant this current branch of the discussion that mainly stems from Mag saying that "you can just run forward and attack dudes w/o looking at them with your camera" (even though your character will still have to look at them). Yes, you'd still be able to do that if you wanted, but if several/most/all classes have some form of detargeting in the skillset, then it'd be much harder for you to not look at your opponent and win in a fight. And judging by Mag's like, I'd assume he'd support that kind of mechanic.

Obviously it'll have to be tested in Ashes, cause I can already imagine a few ways of going around this mechanic, but all those ways depend on how exactly the whole combat system will work.

CROW3 wrote: »

I was going to say one of the biggest advantages to action combat is that my swing can connect with an opponent independent of my focus/target. Accidentally de-targeting an opponent in arena and not connecting an attack at a critical moment was just frustrating AF.

Yeah, I've had a few bad fights that I lost just because I pressed esc one too many times, detargeted my enemy on accident and didn't use a crucial skill in time. But, imo, that's just the skill ceiling showing itself. A true pro player wouldn't make that mistake, or would at least minimize the amount of such mistakes across multiple battles.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Back peddling at full speed and shooting arrows at someone without needing to aim or look in even their general direction. As you can walk away from their skills and have some of them miss you because of the player missing a attack on top of it. While you are able to do maximum damage to them does not make any sense on how you see a benefit for a action based melee player. The effort they have to put in to be as effective is night and day compared to tab when it comes to pvp.

Hey, if you think this is how tab target games work, by all means, spec tab.

Just don't come complaining when you constantly lose in PvP.

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Back peddling at full speed and shooting arrows at someone without needing to aim or look in even their general direction. As you can walk away from their skills and have some of them miss you because of the player missing a attack on top of it. While you are able to do maximum damage to them does not make any sense on how you see a benefit for a action based melee player. The effort they have to put in to be as effective is night and day compared to tab when it comes to pvp.

Hey, if you think this is how tab target games work, by all means, spec tab.

Just don't come complaining when you constantly lose in PvP.

This brings nothing to the conversation.

Mag7spy wrote: »

This brings nothing to the conversation.

As I said, I am not going to give anyone that can't see it any assistance - why would I help you out now, when instead I can kill you even more easily in game and take your stuff?