Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You comment action combat don't have positioning Show me where I said this. Oh wait, you can't, because I didn't. You aren't trying to have a proper discussion I am, you are just not listening. Again, show me where I said action combat does not have positioning. We can just go over the beginning of the conversation again when you say positioning is more important with tab and bring up "some skills can only be caused behind them". If you view positioning in both games you wouldn't bring up a point about talking on positioning as if action combat completely lacked it, Which is also false as the pointed I stated. And the points you refused to comment on. Love how you are trying to divert the convo being picky with words lmao. Action has more positioning than tab, you didn't even play bdo enough to understand the combat, all you can do is a convo is try to say everything doesn't matter lmao. "Positioning is more important in tab" and "action combat don't have positioning" are not the same comment. I absolutely said the first, but by no means said the second. If you cant tell the difference between these two statements, I fear for your future. Even if positioning is only slightly more important in a tab target game than in an action game, that still makes it more important. That assertion doesnt suggest that positioning isn't a thing in action game, nor indeed that it isnt an important thing in action. All it means is that it is more important in tab. This shouldnt be a riddle or puzzle or anything, as it is literally the statement that I made. You should try reading words next time without adding your own context or prejudice.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You comment action combat don't have positioning Show me where I said this. Oh wait, you can't, because I didn't. You aren't trying to have a proper discussion I am, you are just not listening. Again, show me where I said action combat does not have positioning. We can just go over the beginning of the conversation again when you say positioning is more important with tab and bring up "some skills can only be caused behind them". If you view positioning in both games you wouldn't bring up a point about talking on positioning as if action combat completely lacked it, Which is also false as the pointed I stated. And the points you refused to comment on. Love how you are trying to divert the convo being picky with words lmao. Action has more positioning than tab, you didn't even play bdo enough to understand the combat, all you can do is a convo is try to say everything doesn't matter lmao.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You comment action combat don't have positioning Show me where I said this. Oh wait, you can't, because I didn't. You aren't trying to have a proper discussion I am, you are just not listening. Again, show me where I said action combat does not have positioning.
Mag7spy wrote: » You comment action combat don't have positioning
You aren't trying to have a proper discussion
Mag7spy wrote: » It is far more important in BDO than in EQ2. BDO play pvp and understand how positioning works then come back to me.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » It is far more important in BDO than in EQ2. BDO play pvp and understand how positioning works then come back to me. Play top end PvE in EQ2 and get back to me. Keep in mind here, I'm the one that has played both games for an extended amount of time, not you. You may have an idea of how important positioning is in BDO, but you have literally no idea how important it is in EQ2. Since I have played both, I have an idea how important it is in each game.
Mag7spy wrote: » PvE isn't' competitive
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE isn't' competitive Oh it absolutely is. However, it being competitive or not is of no consequence to this discussion. As I have said, many times now, you have no idea how much time I have spent in BDO, nor what I did with that time. All you know is that I like EQ2, and spent 4 years in Archeage, including 2 at the top end of PvP (you do not know what I did for the other two years in Archeage). Fact is, you are just some kid that is talking big here and now because you know I cant go in game and hunt you down (or, put a cross server bounty on you is more my style - you aren't worth the time).
Mag7spy wrote: » PvE isn't competitive, you just look up a guide.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE isn't competitive, you just look up a guide. I mean, this statement just says SOOO much about you. Honestly, it is all anyone needs to ever know about how you play games. Someone needs to write those guilds, or record and post them. In order to be able to do this, they need to have completed the content. As such, by the time a guide exists, the competition over the content is over. Since your reasoning as to why PvE doesn't have any competition involves guides, all that says is that you have literally never been at the cutting edge of any game, ever. Even in games like WoW, where guides about literally everything exist - if the guide exists for something, then the competition over that content has finished. The fact you don't even see that there is this competition should tell you how far behind you are.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE isn't competitive, you just look up a guide. I mean, this statement just says SOOO much about you. Honestly, it is all anyone needs to ever know about how you play games. Someone needs to write those guilds, or record and post them. In order to be able to do this, they need to have completed the content. As such, by the time a guide exists, the competition over the content is over. Since your reasoning as to why PvE doesn't have any competition involves guides, all that says is that you have literally never been at the cutting edge of any game, ever. Even in games like WoW, where guides about literally everything exist - if the guide exists for something, then the competition over that content has finished. The fact you don't even see that there is this competition should tell you how far behind you are. PvE isn't competitive.
Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)
Mag7spy wrote: » PvE isn't competitive.
SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE isn't competitive. For you, it isnt. But this is only because you need to be good to be around the competitive aspects of.it. But go on, say PvE isnt competitive again.
Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game." This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but... I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it. Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is. I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright... Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more.
Mag7spy wrote: » When I say fighting game elements or such it doesn't mean its a fighting game. I would know since I was top 10 in the world on soul calibur. Its simply about the flow and feel of the combat where you have elements where during this point if you use this skill it will link together well. The purpose to again to make it fluid and have more reaction. If you are removing rpg elements then you are just lacking design in a mmorpg, no one wants that. The fun is the different experiences, stats, classes, exploring, builds, etc. Also tab does not have more in common with a fighting game, in action style game does though but not to the level of a fighting game.
Noaani wrote: » Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game." This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but... I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it. Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is. I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright... Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more. I have a question for you in regards to this. To people that know fighting games, they know the moves each character has, wha it situation each move is needed in, specifics like iframes (I assume this is a mechanic in fighting games, even if it has a different name), all of these things. To such players, this makes fighting games literally all about the correct use of abilities at the correct time. To me, this is a tab target MMO. However, to people that dont play fighting games, they are just games where you endlessly mash on buttons and see what happens. To them, I would think that they look, feel and play more like an action game than a tab target game. Would you agree with this?
Noaani wrote: » Would you agree with this?
JustVine wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » When I say fighting game elements or such it doesn't mean its a fighting game. I would know since I was top 10 in the world on soul calibur. Its simply about the flow and feel of the combat where you have elements where during this point if you use this skill it will link together well. The purpose to again to make it fluid and have more reaction. If you are removing rpg elements then you are just lacking design in a mmorpg, no one wants that. The fun is the different experiences, stats, classes, exploring, builds, etc. Also tab does not have more in common with a fighting game, in action style game does though but not to the level of a fighting game. Oh, so English actually is your second language then? (all the top players in Soul Calibur historically are Japanese or Korean afaik). Noaani wrote: » Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game." This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but... I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it. Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is. I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright... Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more. I have a question for you in regards to this. To people that know fighting games, they know the moves each character has, wha it situation each move is needed in, specifics like iframes (I assume this is a mechanic in fighting games, even if it has a different name), all of these things. To such players, this makes fighting games literally all about the correct use of abilities at the correct time. To me, this is a tab target MMO. However, to people that dont play fighting games, they are just games where you endlessly mash on buttons and see what happens. To them, I would think that they look, feel and play more like an action game than a tab target game. Would you agree with this? This is accurate but just like MMOs differ, fighting games differ, so it depends on which game you play, on average it is entirely correct though.
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Would you agree with this? I, as a non-fighting game player, would agree with this cause I see fighting games as more of "know your opponent and try to predict his next moves" thing rather than "mash and pray" one.
