PvP with skins an advantage?

So I don't have anything against skins. I just had a thought about PvP with a skin on. Wouldn't people with skins on have the advantage to hide their gear in PvP? Or do you guys think gear won't be much influence on someone engaging an fight or not? If it does I would atleast suggest for corrupted players to have their skins disabled

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Balfazar

Daggial wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Name one multiplayer videogame that allows to disable skins that people wasted money on.

Albion Online.
When you are meeting players u can recognize at a glance what they are wearing.

Not just that, but you also have multiple options for allies / everyone else.

So for example i used to disable skins for everyone else (opponents), to immediately recognize threat, while kept them enabled for my guilmates / party (and have the social interaction that comes with it).

Fantastic option! Would love to see it in Ashes too.

I SECOND THIS! Disable skins option please

Elder

I'd like to make a point that the appearance of equipment may not be easily identifiable in the first place.

Crafters are able to influence what their crafted items will look like, although I don't think we know to what extent.

George_Black

Isnt Albion p2w..?

Ludullu

Elder wrote: »

Sure, but I don't see why knowing that information for all 40 players at once would be useful.

It's about picking out high value targets in that 40-player crowd. If I see a 40-man raid approaching our boss farm I know there's at least 5 healers there. Considering that Ashes lets you wear any type of gear, I'd prefer to know which of those healers I should attack first, and the gear would tell me that. If I'm a ranger I might want to attack a dude in robes or light gear, if I'm a mage - a heavy dude, if I'm a rogue - robe/light would most likely be the priority.

But if all I see is just dudes wearing the same costume and I have to click on each healer to know their gear type - my dps output and pvp value would diminish. Some people might say "that's a feature that adds mystery to the fight" and I'd say that mysterious pvp is not fun. I'd rather have both sides knowing who to kill first and then use your skill lvl to win that situation than everyone running around like headless chickens in hopes of outdpsing their opponent or just getting more lucky on their first strike.

Dygz

You should have some way to assess the threat.
And you will - it just won’t be based on the appearance of the cosmetics and transmogs.

PenguinPaladin

Dygz wrote: »

You should have some way to assess the threat.
And you will - it just won’t be based on the appearance of the cosmetics and transmogs.

Perhaps you'll have a bit of both.

If mount skins require the specific base type to apply to, and freehold building skins require a specific building type, i wouldnt be suprised for a chest peice skin to be a robe skin vs a chestplate skin. Instead of just which slot the skin can be applied to.

Dygz

Steven corrected Margaret that it does not apply to gear/costumes - just a couple months ago.

Taleof2Cities

Noaani wrote: »

His [Steven's] thinking is that if people pay to have their character look a specific way, then they should be assured that this is how everyone will see them.

Truthfully, this is a stance I agree with, even if I do not like the implications.

Nailed it.

George_Black wrote: »

No. Relax a bit. ESO has way faster combat and everybody wears skins. There was never a problem identifying your enemy.

Correct, although to provide better context for forum-goers, ESO has full cosmetic skins ... but provides threat assessment tools including class icons and character PvP rank.

Dygz

Daggial

Noaani wrote: »

His thinking is that if people pay to have their character look a specific way, then they should be assured that this is how everyone will see them.

Watching a full armored fighter charging at you in their elegant cloth dress costume is just as immersion breaking as the "clown walking down the street".

At very least where you can expect PvP to happen a lot in the open world, like around caravans, or world bosses, it should be the player's choice, not the game's.

Why does it have to be mandatory? Why can't there be a compromise? Where is player agency in this?

Dygz

In a high fantasy, high magic setting - illusions are common place.
If you try to head-canon that Ashes is a low magic setting, yeah, your immersion will be easily broken.
Garish outfits don't break immersion - it's just super-ugly.

Noaani

Daggial wrote: »

Watching a full armored fighter charging at you in their elegant cloth dress costume is just as immersion breaking as the "clown walking down the street".

This is the implication I do not like.

However, I understand it.

As to where the player agency is - it is with the players buying cosmetics.

Player agency can be looked at as player freedom. As with most forms of freedom, when you hand people one type of freedom, you are taking a different freedom away from them.

Elder

NiKr wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

Sure, but I don't see why knowing that information for all 40 players at once would be useful.

It's about picking out high value targets in that 40-player crowd. If I see a 40-man raid approaching our boss farm I know there's at least 5 healers there. Considering that Ashes lets you wear any type of gear, I'd prefer to know which of those healers I should attack first, and the gear would tell me that. If I'm a ranger I might want to attack a dude in robes or light gear, if I'm a mage - a heavy dude, if I'm a rogue - robe/light would most likely be the priority.

But if all I see is just dudes wearing the same costume and I have to click on each healer to know their gear type - my dps output and pvp value would diminish. Some people might say "that's a feature that adds mystery to the fight" and I'd say that mysterious pvp is not fun. I'd rather have both sides knowing who to kill first and then use your skill lvl to win that situation than everyone running around like headless chickens in hopes of outdpsing their opponent or just getting more lucky on their first strike.

If that's your preference I won't argue it. I definitely understand the benefit that your example proposes. If I'm not mistaken you're hoping to be able to focus the backline during confusing PvP encounters.

I'm sure that you'll be able to identify specific archetypes amongst a group with relative ease. I'm just not certain if the appearance of their equipment will play a substantial role in identifying their capabilities.

The appearance of equipment is proposed to be customizable through crafting and isn't inherently tied to the equipments stat distribution as far as I know.

All gear will be able to be assigned any stat.
Crafters will be able to assign different skills/abilities on gear.

I'm obviously not entirely certain but it's plausible that a mage wearing crafted plate may be entirely or nearly as effective as a mage wearing the equivalent tier of non-crafted cloth.

Ludullu

Elder wrote: »

I'm obviously not entirely certain but it's plausible that a mage wearing crafted plate may be entirely or nearly as effective as a mage wearing the equivalent tier of non-crafted cloth.

But my whole point was that if I'm a ranger, I'd rather shoot someone in robe/light armor because there's a much higher chance that their def stat is lower than someone's who's wearing plate. And if a costume/cosmetic can cover up that gear type, I'd have a harder time picking out a high value target.

But yes, it's mainly just a preference that stems from L2's gear system which I liked a lot, but I'll deal with it if Ashes ends up being very secretive about its gear presentation (clicking a dude in a huge crowd just to know his gear type is still really secretive to me).

Elder

NiKr wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

I'm obviously not entirely certain but it's plausible that a mage wearing crafted plate may be entirely or nearly as effective as a mage wearing the equivalent tier of non-crafted cloth.

But my whole point was that if I'm a ranger, I'd rather shoot someone in robe/light armor because there's a much higher chance that their def stat is lower than someone's who's wearing plate. And if a costume/cosmetic can cover up that gear type, I'd have a harder time picking out a high value target.

But yes, it's mainly just a preference that stems from L2's gear system which I liked a lot, but I'll deal with it if Ashes ends up being very secretive about its gear presentation (clicking a dude in a huge crowd just to know his gear type is still really secretive to me).

I don't think you understood my point entirely. It may be possible that crafted cloth gear could provide just as much or nearly as much defence as plate, via customization during the crafting process.

Personally I wouldn't like this for the game, but reading through the wiki it seemed quite plausible.

Ludullu

Elder wrote: »

I don't think you understood my point entirely. It may be possible that crafted cloth gear could provide just as much or nearly as much defence as plate, via customization during the crafting process.

Personally I wouldn't like this for the game, but reading through the wiki it seemed quite plausible.

We'll have to see. I sure as hell hope they don't do that cause that kinda defeats the whole purpose of gear type separation.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

It's about picking out high value targets in that 40-player crowd. If I see a 40-man raid approaching our boss farm I know there's at least 5 healers there. Considering that Ashes lets you wear any type of gear, I'd prefer to know which of those healers I should attack first, and the gear would tell me that. If I'm a ranger I might want to attack a dude in robes or light gear, if I'm a mage - a heavy dude, if I'm a rogue - robe/light would most likely be the priority.

In Ashes, the gear won't necessarily tell you which healer you should try to take out first.
It's not going to tell you which Passive Skills they have their points in or which augments they use or what their tactics are.
All 5 healers could be wearing a mix of Physical and Magical gear.
You might want to attack a dude in light gear. You will be able to tell they are mostly wearing light gear even if their transmog is full plate.

Ransel

DPS meters are one way to assess threats regardless of cosmetic skins.

PenguinPaladin

Ransel wrote: »

DPS meters are one way to assess threats regardless of cosmetic skins.

Ew.

Ransel

There might be other ways to accomplish this without DPS meters.

Maybe just a list of names of the top five highest DPS in close proximity or such.

The numbers aren't as important as who needs to be targeted.

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