PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything. I mean, isnt everything in an MMO just a fake badge? That said, how about we look back at EQ2. The games open world raid encounters were labeled - by the developers - as 'contested raid encounters'. The first raid to arrive with enough players and successfully kill said encounter gets the rewards. Since these encounters had actual competition over them (there would often be 5+ guilds attempting them), and since literally every item they dropped was best in slot, and ALSO since they were added to the game in order to be a form of competition, you cant say there is no PvE competition in MMO's. Unless you want to say the developer of that game - a number of whom are making this game - dont know English well enough to properly label their own content. However, I doubt you are literarily diluted enough to make that claim of anyone else. Then you could look at games that have dungeon leaderboards. Again, you are welcome to say you haven't participated in competitive PvE. No one would doubt this. What you cant really say though, is that there is no competitive PvE. Not without being outright, objectively wrong. PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. With this mindset, you dont need leaderboards, or rankings in pvp either. Because the pvp itself is the competition. No point in recording stats as recording stats is obviously not competitive.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything. I mean, isnt everything in an MMO just a fake badge? That said, how about we look back at EQ2. The games open world raid encounters were labeled - by the developers - as 'contested raid encounters'. The first raid to arrive with enough players and successfully kill said encounter gets the rewards. Since these encounters had actual competition over them (there would often be 5+ guilds attempting them), and since literally every item they dropped was best in slot, and ALSO since they were added to the game in order to be a form of competition, you cant say there is no PvE competition in MMO's. Unless you want to say the developer of that game - a number of whom are making this game - dont know English well enough to properly label their own content. However, I doubt you are literarily diluted enough to make that claim of anyone else. Then you could look at games that have dungeon leaderboards. Again, you are welcome to say you haven't participated in competitive PvE. No one would doubt this. What you cant really say though, is that there is no competitive PvE. Not without being outright, objectively wrong. PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything. I mean, isnt everything in an MMO just a fake badge? That said, how about we look back at EQ2. The games open world raid encounters were labeled - by the developers - as 'contested raid encounters'. The first raid to arrive with enough players and successfully kill said encounter gets the rewards. Since these encounters had actual competition over them (there would often be 5+ guilds attempting them), and since literally every item they dropped was best in slot, and ALSO since they were added to the game in order to be a form of competition, you cant say there is no PvE competition in MMO's. Unless you want to say the developer of that game - a number of whom are making this game - dont know English well enough to properly label their own content. However, I doubt you are literarily diluted enough to make that claim of anyone else. Then you could look at games that have dungeon leaderboards. Again, you are welcome to say you haven't participated in competitive PvE. No one would doubt this. What you cant really say though, is that there is no competitive PvE. Not without being outright, objectively wrong.
Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything.
Noaani wrote: » Warth wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. Fighting the AI does not preclude competition. Look back at old school arcade machines where you would put your initials in if you got a high score. There was a lot of competition there. Or you could look at what is easily the most competitive aspect of gaming today - speedrunning. At this point, the number of examples of player vs AI I have given you where there is competition between players, you literally have to be willfully not wanting to understand in order to, well, not understand. Nonono. Everything that isn't pitting people against each other isn't competitive. Even in sports... Don't you know that racing, climbing, swimming, skiing... aren't competitive sports? Only sports like Tennis, Boxing, Chess etc. can be competitive The billions of people following other sports are simply wrong and would be better off looking for real competition Noaani /s Oh yeah, swimming is, after all, just player vs water.
Warth wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. Fighting the AI does not preclude competition. Look back at old school arcade machines where you would put your initials in if you got a high score. There was a lot of competition there. Or you could look at what is easily the most competitive aspect of gaming today - speedrunning. At this point, the number of examples of player vs AI I have given you where there is competition between players, you literally have to be willfully not wanting to understand in order to, well, not understand. Nonono. Everything that isn't pitting people against each other isn't competitive. Even in sports... Don't you know that racing, climbing, swimming, skiing... aren't competitive sports? Only sports like Tennis, Boxing, Chess etc. can be competitive The billions of people following other sports are simply wrong and would be better off looking for real competition Noaani /s
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. Fighting the AI does not preclude competition. Look back at old school arcade machines where you would put your initials in if you got a high score. There was a lot of competition there. Or you could look at what is easily the most competitive aspect of gaming today - speedrunning. At this point, the number of examples of player vs AI I have given you where there is competition between players, you literally have to be willfully not wanting to understand in order to, well, not understand.
Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI.
Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything. I mean, isnt everything in an MMO just a fake badge? That said, how about we look back at EQ2. The games open world raid encounters were labeled - by the developers - as 'contested raid encounters'. The first raid to arrive with enough players and successfully kill said encounter gets the rewards. Since these encounters had actual competition over them (there would often be 5+ guilds attempting them), and since literally every item they dropped was best in slot, and ALSO since they were added to the game in order to be a form of competition, you cant say there is no PvE competition in MMO's. Unless you want to say the developer of that game - a number of whom are making this game - dont know English well enough to properly label their own content. However, I doubt you are literarily diluted enough to make that claim of anyone else. Then you could look at games that have dungeon leaderboards. Again, you are welcome to say you haven't participated in competitive PvE. No one would doubt this. What you cant really say though, is that there is no competitive PvE. Not without being outright, objectively wrong. PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. With this mindset, you dont need leaderboards, or rankings in pvp either. Because the pvp itself is the competition. No point in recording stats as recording stats is obviously not competitive. You don't need it in pvp, stats are just fun to have in games in general because people like a extra sense of achievement. Also the main points on pvp will be sieges and guild wars, so winning those even more so siege as it effects the world. It is a clear statement where you don't need any leaderboard to show what you are are accomplishing and winning or losing as guild. If it relates to arena matches though though leaderboards aren't needed and you can have a rank assigned to you, there is no reason for the rankings not to be seen for everyone so they know where they stand. As well as what they need to do to get where they wank in the ranking as they continue to fight people.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. Fighting the AI does not preclude competition. Look back at old school arcade machines where you would put your initials in if you got a high score. There was a lot of competition there. Or you could look at what is easily the most competitive aspect of gaming today - speedrunning. At this point, the number of examples of player vs AI I have given you where there is competition between players, you literally have to be willfully not wanting to understand in order to, well, not understand. People do that on the arcade trying to get the top score sure, that is more competitive than World first PvE because it is more on a fair playing field. Though still not something I see being that competitive as it is just a AI bot. Competition is against players directly, not indirectly with AI. Just because it isn't competitive doesn't mean it isn't challenging or it means the player is lesser then a pvper. Pve is just cooperative working together and figuring things out together until you have the guides then you just follow them (Which will be the normal experience for 99% of people in the game).
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything. I mean, isnt everything in an MMO just a fake badge? That said, how about we look back at EQ2. The games open world raid encounters were labeled - by the developers - as 'contested raid encounters'. The first raid to arrive with enough players and successfully kill said encounter gets the rewards. Since these encounters had actual competition over them (there would often be 5+ guilds attempting them), and since literally every item they dropped was best in slot, and ALSO since they were added to the game in order to be a form of competition, you cant say there is no PvE competition in MMO's. Unless you want to say the developer of that game - a number of whom are making this game - dont know English well enough to properly label their own content. However, I doubt you are literarily diluted enough to make that claim of anyone else. Then you could look at games that have dungeon leaderboards. Again, you are welcome to say you haven't participated in competitive PvE. No one would doubt this. What you cant really say though, is that there is no competitive PvE. Not without being outright, objectively wrong. PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. With this mindset, you dont need leaderboards, or rankings in pvp either. Because the pvp itself is the competition. No point in recording stats as recording stats is obviously not competitive. You don't need it in pvp, stats are just fun to have in games in general because people like a extra sense of achievement. Also the main points on pvp will be sieges and guild wars, so winning those even more so siege as it effects the world. It is a clear statement where you don't need any leaderboard to show what you are are accomplishing and winning or losing as guild. If it relates to arena matches though though leaderboards aren't needed and you can have a rank assigned to you, there is no reason for the rankings not to be seen for everyone so they know where they stand. As well as what they need to do to get where they wank in the ranking as they continue to fight people. And you dont think people will compete over the pve elements in ashes? You're going to be doing all your pvp without having gear made by drops of raids and such? You are not going to join your guild in competing with other guilds to do this open world pve stuff?
Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything. I mean, isnt everything in an MMO just a fake badge? That said, how about we look back at EQ2. The games open world raid encounters were labeled - by the developers - as 'contested raid encounters'. The first raid to arrive with enough players and successfully kill said encounter gets the rewards. Since these encounters had actual competition over them (there would often be 5+ guilds attempting them), and since literally every item they dropped was best in slot, and ALSO since they were added to the game in order to be a form of competition, you cant say there is no PvE competition in MMO's. Unless you want to say the developer of that game - a number of whom are making this game - dont know English well enough to properly label their own content. However, I doubt you are literarily diluted enough to make that claim of anyone else. Then you could look at games that have dungeon leaderboards. Again, you are welcome to say you haven't participated in competitive PvE. No one would doubt this. What you cant really say though, is that there is no competitive PvE. Not without being outright, objectively wrong. PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. With this mindset, you dont need leaderboards, or rankings in pvp either. Because the pvp itself is the competition. No point in recording stats as recording stats is obviously not competitive. You don't need it in pvp, stats are just fun to have in games in general because people like a extra sense of achievement. Also the main points on pvp will be sieges and guild wars, so winning those even more so siege as it effects the world. It is a clear statement where you don't need any leaderboard to show what you are are accomplishing and winning or losing as guild. If it relates to arena matches though though leaderboards aren't needed and you can have a rank assigned to you, there is no reason for the rankings not to be seen for everyone so they know where they stand. As well as what they need to do to get where they wank in the ranking as they continue to fight people. And you dont think people will compete over the pve elements in ashes? You're going to be doing all your pvp without having gear made by drops of raids and such? You are not going to join your guild in competing with other guilds to do this open world pve stuff? You mean as in fight each other over pve stuff?
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. Fighting the AI does not preclude competition. Look back at old school arcade machines where you would put your initials in if you got a high score. There was a lot of competition there. Or you could look at what is easily the most competitive aspect of gaming today - speedrunning. At this point, the number of examples of player vs AI I have given you where there is competition between players, you literally have to be willfully not wanting to understand in order to, well, not understand. People do that on the arcade trying to get the top score sure, that is more competitive than World first PvE because it is more on a fair playing field. Though still not something I see being that competitive as it is just a AI bot. Competition is against players directly, not indirectly with AI. Just because it isn't competitive doesn't mean it isn't challenging or it means the player is lesser then a pvper. Pve is just cooperative working together and figuring things out together until you have the guides then you just follow them (Which will be the normal experience for 99% of people in the game). Pve competition is more than who is first.... Whos first. Whos fastest. Whos done it with the least amount of players. Whos done it at lowest levels. And im sure other examples exist.
Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. Fighting the AI does not preclude competition. Look back at old school arcade machines where you would put your initials in if you got a high score. There was a lot of competition there. Or you could look at what is easily the most competitive aspect of gaming today - speedrunning. At this point, the number of examples of player vs AI I have given you where there is competition between players, you literally have to be willfully not wanting to understand in order to, well, not understand. People do that on the arcade trying to get the top score sure, that is more competitive than World first PvE because it is more on a fair playing field. Though still not something I see being that competitive as it is just a AI bot. Competition is against players directly, not indirectly with AI. Just because it isn't competitive doesn't mean it isn't challenging or it means the player is lesser then a pvper. Pve is just cooperative working together and figuring things out together until you have the guides then you just follow them (Which will be the normal experience for 99% of people in the game). Pve competition is more than who is first.... Whos first. Whos fastest. Whos done it with the least amount of players. Whos done it at lowest levels. And im sure other examples exist. Those are accomplishments yes and a test to either skill or knowledge on a fight and ability to solve /bypass a puzzle the most effective way. People have competitive mindsets certainly more elitist type people where they try to turn everything into a competition. Trying to turn something into a competition and something being competitive are two different things.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PvE is not competitive wearing a fake badge saying you did something first doesn't mean anything. I mean, isnt everything in an MMO just a fake badge? That said, how about we look back at EQ2. The games open world raid encounters were labeled - by the developers - as 'contested raid encounters'. The first raid to arrive with enough players and successfully kill said encounter gets the rewards. Since these encounters had actual competition over them (there would often be 5+ guilds attempting them), and since literally every item they dropped was best in slot, and ALSO since they were added to the game in order to be a form of competition, you cant say there is no PvE competition in MMO's. Unless you want to say the developer of that game - a number of whom are making this game - dont know English well enough to properly label their own content. However, I doubt you are literarily diluted enough to make that claim of anyone else. Then you could look at games that have dungeon leaderboards. Again, you are welcome to say you haven't participated in competitive PvE. No one would doubt this. What you cant really say though, is that there is no competitive PvE. Not without being outright, objectively wrong. PvE is not competitive it doesn't matter how you try to swing it in your mind or trying to create some scenario where it is to you, manipulate the conversation in attempt to make me say something about other people, you are fighting AI. With this mindset, you dont need leaderboards, or rankings in pvp either. Because the pvp itself is the competition. No point in recording stats as recording stats is obviously not competitive. You don't need it in pvp, stats are just fun to have in games in general because people like a extra sense of achievement. Also the main points on pvp will be sieges and guild wars, so winning those even more so siege as it effects the world. It is a clear statement where you don't need any leaderboard to show what you are are accomplishing and winning or losing as guild. If it relates to arena matches though though leaderboards aren't needed and you can have a rank assigned to you, there is no reason for the rankings not to be seen for everyone so they know where they stand. As well as what they need to do to get where they wank in the ranking as they continue to fight people. And you dont think people will compete over the pve elements in ashes? You're going to be doing all your pvp without having gear made by drops of raids and such? You are not going to join your guild in competing with other guilds to do this open world pve stuff? You mean as in fight each other over pve stuff? Oh please. Dont you dare try and say that pvp can be caused by pve. Thats insane. That would be like... pvx or something. Unthinkable.
Dygz wrote: » Some of that PvE will still be competitive - even if not directly combating others. But, it's not a binary issue. PvP combat is not the only form of player v player competition in Ashes. Noaani is telling you that there is also competitive PvE and it can be significant. And you are saying that any PvP is technically competitive - even when yo are max level ganking newbies. What's your actual point supposed to be??
Mag7spy wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Some of that PvE will still be competitive - even if not directly combating others. But, it's not a binary issue. PvP combat is not the only form of player v player competition in Ashes. Noaani is telling you that there is also competitive PvE and it can be significant. And you are saying that any PvP is technically competitive - even when yo are max level ganking newbies. What's your actual point supposed to be?? I've commented on this already and the same thing applies. PvE is cooperative not competitive, if you are trying to create a competition between players where they do not see it as such or there is some unfair standing or nothing for it to be competitive in truth about it is simply you trying to push competition on someone that doesn't see it like that. Same way can be used in reserve where you do a dungeon without a guide and then someone beats the dungeon faster than your group did it the first time using a guide and information. Everything is subjective as it is simply some people creating that element changing a coop experience into something it isn't. People simply are forcing rules on a experience again subjective in nature on deciding what they deem in valid or not our of their own competitive nature. The same applies to killing lowbies and saying you are the strongest player then logging off.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » And in that same vain. I dont think pvp is competitive. I dont kill players in game to compete with them, i just want the loot. So what you think is competitive, is just something you are pushing on me.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Some of that PvE will still be competitive - even if not directly combating others. But, it's not a binary issue. PvP combat is not the only form of player v player competition in Ashes. Noaani is telling you that there is also competitive PvE and it can be significant. And you are saying that any PvP is technically competitive - even when yo are max level ganking newbies. What's your actual point supposed to be?? I've commented on this already and the same thing applies. PvE is cooperative not competitive, if you are trying to create a competition between players where they do not see it as such or there is some unfair standing or nothing for it to be competitive in truth about it is simply you trying to push competition on someone that doesn't see it like that. Same way can be used in reserve where you do a dungeon without a guide and then someone beats the dungeon faster than your group did it the first time using a guide and information. Everything is subjective as it is simply some people creating that element changing a coop experience into something it isn't. People simply are forcing rules on a experience again subjective in nature on deciding what they deem in valid or not our of their own competitive nature. The same applies to killing lowbies and saying you are the strongest player then logging off. Okay, this might be the best formulated explanation they've ever posted. They are trying to point out that PVE is not designed with competition in mind, and players make it competitive. And in that same vain. I dont think pvp is competitive. I dont kill players in game to compete with them, i just want the loot. So what you think is competitive, is just something you are pushing on me.
Mag7spy wrote: » I've commented on this already and the same thing applies. PvE is cooperative not competitive, if you are trying to create a competition between players where they do not see it as such or there is some unfair standing or nothing for it to be competitive in truth about it is simply you trying to push competition on someone that doesn't see it like that.
NiKr wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » And in that same vain. I dont think pvp is competitive. I dont kill players in game to compete with them, i just want the loot. So what you think is competitive, is just something you are pushing on me. Hell, I've killed literal thousands in L2 w/o any reason at all. I was just running towards a farming spot, saw a flagged dude and killed him. That's it. 0 competition.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Okay, this might be the best formulated explanation they've ever posted. They are trying to point out that PVE is not designed with competition in mind, and players make it competitive.
Mag7spy wrote: » I feel this is a post agreeing to just agreeing since I'm involved lol. It depends on the situation and if a proper fight was had. If there is a fight its two people testing their skills against each other so its competitive. Else you would just ignore them and not deal with them.
