No-Dev-Discussion #1: Religion

Steven talked about them provisionally finalizing the different Node Types, so i'm expecting information about that within the next few monthly live-streams.

We haven't had a Dev discussion regarding the Religion System yet (?) as far as I'm aware. So i figured that it might be an interesting topic to talk about prior to them showing us their vision.

What would you like to see within the Religion System?
What do you expect to see within the Intrepid designed system?

Off Topic

P.S. @Mods
Just a suggestion from my side here, but over the past years we have had a significant number of Dev Discussions regarding various topics. Especially new people here, but also people that don't practically live on the forum might be interested in reading through them or looking for topics that might be of interest to them. With the fractured nature of them, this is rather hard as they'd have to seep through 100s of threads in the search function to find what they are looking for.

Would it be possible to have a regularly maintained list of all Dev-Discussions in the form of:
Number #: Topic -> Link

I think this would go a long way in making people other than the usual suspects provide the feedback and insights Steven wants from the community

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Comments

Warth

I've always been a fan of the Civilization Series Religion System and i think this would fit perfectly into the Node System of AoC.

Caravans, Religious Quests as well as simply acting within the Zone of Influence could increase the amount of influence a Religion gathers within a city. While players from other Religions do the same for theirs.
Depending on the Influence of your Religion, minor perks or buffs could unlock for the follower of those Religions or to be used as a currency for high-ranked individuals to select Religion wide buffs.
By spreading the religion, player gain devotion to rise within the ranks of their religion and unlock perks for themselves.

I guess what i hope for in short is detailed, multi-layered system that can be the core aspect of someone's gameplay if he so chooses., the same way players can choose to be traders or crafters or gathers to be primarily.

Dygz

Warth wrote: »

Steven talked about them provisionally finalizing the different Node Types, so i'm expecting information about that within the next few monthly live-streams.

Nodes 3.

Solvryn

Pure Shamanism/Animism

CROW3

I’m waiting for the inevitable siege between Scientific and Religious nodes.

Warth wrote: »

What would you like to see within the Religion System?

- benefits AND hinderances that balance across the pantheon (all social organizations have flaws - especially religions)
- Favored and unfavored statuses. If you exceed the expectations of a given deity, there is a buff specific to that god/goddess. Likewise, falling away from a religion may incur a rebuff from that deity as punishment for heresy
- As with any guild, would be good for a player to display their religion’s emblem
- It would be interesting if there were a religion could establish a social loyalty across nodes - like a meta citizenship - though without the proportionate benefits that node citizenship provides

Dygz

That has me wondering about the specific enemies of each Religion and how that will impact the NPCs that are prevalent on each server - also how that will affect each server's Events and story.

CROW3

Dygz wrote: »

That has me wondering about the specific enemies of each Religion and how that will impact the NPCs that are prevalent on each server - also how that will affect each server's Events and story.

And whether the favored enemies of some religions are the players / NPCs in another religion…

Any militarized social group dedicated to a deity of ‘Truth’ is going to be quite dangerous.

daveywavey

With different religions, it'd be nice to have some meaning to which one you choose.

GethOverlord

Otr wrote: »

The ability to worship the Others and be on their side.

This has already been confirmed in multiple mentions by Steven.

Solvryn wrote: »

Pure Shamanism/Animism

This especially with the Py'Rai would make a lot of sense. And the confirmed existence of at least 1 druidic order I hope for this too.

daveywavey wrote: »

With different religions, it'd be nice to have some meaning to which one you choose.

I can't imagine this won't be an important choice with a whole set of systems fully dedicated to it as well as the existence of religious nodes.

CROW3 wrote: »

- benefits AND hinderances that balance across the pantheon (all social organizations have flaws - especially religions)
- Favored and unfavored statuses. If you exceed the expectations of a given deity, there is a buff specific to that god/goddess. Likewise, falling away from a religion may incur a rebuff from that deity as punishment for heresy

This I feel will be the most important part of making religious nodes more interesting and less of a "just another faction" choice in the game. Imparting some systems to bolster the zealots and disparage the unfaithful has been a core aspect of growing religions in size and power for thousands of years.
Also utilizing things like the Rogue class quests for sabotage, but for a religious order is such a believable and compelling motivator for religion vs religion and even religion vs science aspects that can potentially fit into this game.
More benefits! More hindrances! Let's see it 👏👏👏

Asgerr

I've brought it up before in other threads, but I do really like the ideas of having religious conflicts, with the possibility of one Religious Metropolis Mayor acting as a Pope for their religion.

This would mean that people in a certain area would strive to have their own Pope and their own religion be the primary one in what would essentially be their Holy See. This could imply having certain bonuses and buffs for those of that specific faith.

Also, said Pope could order (every so often, ideally not too often though) a Crusade on those of a different religion. This would be some form of bonus in PvP for those of faith X killing those of faith Y across the world. Maybe a freebie, with no Corruption implications.

I believe this would lead to interesting politicking and pushes from Kings and foreign mayors etc to control the Metropolis level Religious Nodes, making them stand out from the rest of node types. If you want more of an idea as to what the struggle for a certain religious power could look like, you can read up on the Sack of Rome in 1527. (If you like metal music Sabaton has a song and a Sabaton history episode about this)

CROW3

@Asgerr - Exactly. I also wonder if we would end up with two religious nodes of the same paragon with dramatically different goals - similar to the Great Schism in the latter 13th Century. This could be one possible conflict direction I was going when talking about a religion that worships a paragon of 'truth'.

Voidwalkers

Will a religion be able to declare a crusade on all Tulnars though?

tautau

Excellent ideas @Asgerr !

I trust that the augments that each religion can produce (for weapons, armor and jewelry) are each significantly different. Hopefully, they will also be somewhat different based on the predominant race of the node.

For example, religion X produces augments that strengthen against dark/necromantic spells, augments and weapons while religion Z does the same against holy/blessed. But if it is an elf city, they also help against beasts, and one elf tribe would be better against mammals while the other would be best against plants and insects.

I can certainly see higher level nodes wanting to have level 3+ religious nodes in their area to benefit from these augments. Certainly, the augments on each server will be different. Religious nodes will be great ones to make friends with, ally with, trade with and protect during sieges in order to get augments. It could be that guilds which siege/attack religious nodes are hated by others since the attacking guild is keeping the server from having access to those augments. Some dungeons and bosses might almost require certain types of augments in order to successfully clear/kill. Anyone who wants that boss will need to help the appropriate religious node grow and protect it.

So, if there is a server where religion Z never controls a lvl 3+ node and the augments against holy/blessed mobs don't exist on that server, then the Holy Bosses on that server may never be taken down.

Cat Quiver

I don't see much religion can really add besides some minor buffs and flavor on various things which I'd be fine with. However

Asgerr wrote: »

I've brought it up before in other threads, but I do really like the ideas of having religious conflicts, with the possibility of one Religious Metropolis Mayor acting as a Pope for their religion.

This is potentially the best part the religions can bring. Extra flavoring to push player driven stuff, a player rping as a pope in a way most people could tolerate would add a some extra depth to your server, with the planned individuality of the different servers there could be worlds where this pope dude helped get a majority of his religion. Another could see two dominate religions eventually for each continent, the list goes on. It's a small thing in the sea of what Ashes is supposed to be that if baked in properly will do a lot for it on word of mouth.

Depraved

i hope i can have a religion and also be a bountry hunter 😭😭😭😭😭

daveywavey

Voidwalkers wrote: »

Will a religion be able to declare a crusade on all Tulnars though?

Asgerr

Depraved wrote: »

i hope i can have a religion and also be a bountry hunter 😭😭😭😭😭

You will! Your religion will be chosen in character creation. So that is a default thing you have for your character. Perhaps there may be ways of converting to a different one later on.

Your ability to act as a bounty hunter is entirely separate from the religious element, and relates mostly to the corruption accrued by players from PKing

Nerror

GethOverlord wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

The ability to worship the Others and be on their side.

This has already been confirmed in multiple mentions by Steven.

Not actual worship in a game mechanics sense, unless you mean in a roleplay sense. We'll get some questlines that touch upon favoring The Others, but he quite specifically said no to Temples and that includes all the religious systems that come with them. Just so people don't get their hopes up here. It's going to be roleplaying based worship. Maybe a special augment at most, is my guess.

CROW3 wrote: »

- benefits AND hinderances that balance across the pantheon (all social organizations have flaws - especially religions)
- Favored and unfavored statuses. If you exceed the expectations of a given deity, there is a buff specific to that god/goddess. Likewise, falling away from a religion may incur a rebuff from that deity as punishment for heresy
- As with any guild, would be good for a player to display their religion’s emblem
- It would be interesting if there were a religion could establish a social loyalty across nodes - like a meta citizenship - though without the proportionate benefits that node citizenship provides

I like including the hindrance part

It shouldn't only be bonuses, but a trade off I think. Same goes for the favored and unfavored statuses.

As for the meta citizenship, I agree, but I also think that might already be planned in a way? We'll be getting a religion chat and that is at least a good first step, but the actual implementation of the religion system will certainly determine how much players within a religion are incentivized to work together to form those bonds.

Asgerr wrote: »

I've brought it up before in other threads, but I do really like the ideas of having religious conflicts, with the possibility of one Religious Metropolis Mayor acting as a Pope for their religion.

This would mean that people in a certain area would strive to have their own Pope and their own religion be the primary one in what would essentially be their Holy See. This could imply having certain bonuses and buffs for those of that specific faith.

Also, said Pope could order (every so often, ideally not too often though) a Crusade on those of a different religion. This would be some form of bonus in PvP for those of faith X killing those of faith Y across the world. Maybe a freebie, with no Corruption implications.

I believe this would lead to interesting politicking and pushes from Kings and foreign mayors etc to control the Metropolis level Religious Nodes, making them stand out from the rest of node types. If you want more of an idea as to what the struggle for a certain religious power could look like, you can read up on the Sack of Rome in 1527. (If you like metal music Sabaton has a song and a Sabaton history episode about this)

Players can obviously do what they want, and start wars over religion as they see fit. I think that part of religious conflict is great.

However, from a lore perspective and game mechanic perspective, I would rather not see the seven "good" religions fight wars among themselves. They are not each others enemies after all. The gods in Verra are actually real, and they direct their NPC followers. So I would not want to see followers of the Goddess of Love get quests to really mess things up for the followers of the God of Truth. Unless it's a quest line specifically to expose the quest-giver as a follower of one of The Others, at which point the player can then turn the quest giver in, or follow through with the quest and receive roleplaying bonus points from The Others.

I can see religious orders clash with some of the social organizations however, and we can get some questy conflict there.

Dygz

Asgerr wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

i hope i can have a religion and also be a bountry hunter 😭😭😭😭😭

You will! Your religion will be chosen in character creation. So that is a default thing you have for your character. Perhaps there may be ways of converting to a different one later on.

Your ability to act as a bounty hunter is entirely separate from the religious element, and relates mostly to the corruption accrued by players from PKing

Do you have a dev quote that states Religion is chosen during character creation?

It's true that Religion and Social Org is separate from being a Bounty Hunter. They are not mutually exclusive.
Also, yes, it is possible to change Religion and Social Org via specific quests that allow such changes.

Dygz

Every Node Type can have a Temple with player characters rising through the ranks of Religion leader.
The person with the highest Religion rank in a Religious Node will be the Mayor of that Node.
We'll have to see how that relates to the concept of a Pope.

But, yes, there will certainly be Religious conflicts - if not outright Religious wars.

Asgerr

Dygz wrote: »

Do you have a dev quote that states Religion is chosen during character creation?

Double checked and it seems my memory was mixing up things from another game.

There is indeed no word on when or how you would adhere to a specific religion. They simply mention you choosing a religion at some point, and then progressing along those quest lines if one should choose to do so.

This then raises a new question: would we rather choose one once already in game? Or during character creation?

Also let's not forget there's an option to be atheistic as well.

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