George_Black wrote: » There you have it once more. It will be risky. Imagine you being red and taking off all your gear, handing to a friend, who will then proceed to kill. At that moment you are basically a naked red player with an inventory full of gear, ready to be one-shot. Until that trade is completed you can burst like a pinata to bring joy to all the nearby people. Yes there is anxiety as Steven said, for those that dare to go red. While I was trading my brother, 15 or so years ago, I got killed by the swarming non-combatants and I lost my best arnor. That's what happens when you go red. Another simple fix without altering the PK system is for a trade to take 3s after both players have hit the Cofnirm button on the trade tab. I wish people will stop freaking out about open world PvP/PK. It's one thing to try to cover all loopholes and it's another thing to want to prevent free interaction by making content: optional instanced restricted
NiKr wrote: » Now my mates can immediately remove my corruption (depending on the quantity) and loot anything I drop, so I'm totally safe".
Otr wrote: » @tonewolf There will be no way to teleport in this game.
Otr wrote: » Elder wrote: » Otr wrote: » @tonewolf There will be no way to teleport in this game. Untrue. Scientific nodes that have reached the metropolis stage unlock the Teleportation superpower. There is also a family summon. I think the metropolis will help teleporting between vassal node and the metropolis. Will not help here much. The family summon is uncertain. Steven said he doesn't like that players are too teleporty and that feature is still being considered. Do you think they should add it? In any case, it can easily be disabled when the member is corrupt. But I think Steven wants to disable it for other reasons.
Elder wrote: » Otr wrote: » @tonewolf There will be no way to teleport in this game. Untrue. Scientific nodes that have reached the metropolis stage unlock the Teleportation superpower. There is also a family summon.
NiKr wrote: » That was my question And I definitely want them to just include PKers into the flagging rules (as they kinda already are). Make it hard for party/guild groups to protect their PKer. Yes, you can't trade as a Red, but you can still do a controlled kill, so any dropped gear won't be lost. I think Steven was thinking more about "I'm alone and a PKer and my guildmates are somewhere far away and BHs might get me before my mates can", while my question was about "I'm in a group rn and I PKed someone. Now my mates can immediately remove my corruption (depending on the quantity) and loot anything I drop, so I'm totally safe". I personally want to avoid that kind of interaction, specially considering that you can't flag against your mates in the current system. I understand that Reds are supposed to be a separate entity within the lore of the game, but I think this is a question of what's better for the gameplay rather than just the story/lore.
Elder wrote: » You're never safe when dying. No matter what you're flagged as, there are penalties for deaths. Experience debt. Skill and stat dampening. Lower health and mana. Lower gear proficiency. Reduction in drop rates from monsters. Durability loss. A corrupt player suffers these penalties at four times the rate of a non-combatant, and will most likely require multiple deaths to remove their corruption entirely. Sure, you could mitigate the chance of losing equipment, materials and certificates by having a friend kill you repeatedly. You would also be guaranteeing these other harsh penalties are applied to you.
Mag7spy wrote: » If you drop corrupted gear you can no longer equip it on your account as its corrupted to your soul.
NiKr wrote: » Elder wrote: » You're never safe when dying. No matter what you're flagged as, there are penalties for deaths. Experience debt. Skill and stat dampening. Lower health and mana. Lower gear proficiency. Reduction in drop rates from monsters. Durability loss. A corrupt player suffers these penalties at four times the rate of a non-combatant, and will most likely require multiple deaths to remove their corruption entirely. Sure, you could mitigate the chance of losing equipment, materials and certificates by having a friend kill you repeatedly. You would also be guaranteeing these other harsh penalties are applied to you. Yes, I'm fully aware of how the system works. I'm considering those penalties as the default base penalty. I'd assume that in most cases, if you have friends with you - you gonna try grinding off your corruption and not die. But if you see that a group of people is coming towards you - the safest way to limit the loss of your resources/gear is for your mate to kill you. And I personally don't want that to be the case. Mag7spy wrote: » If you drop corrupted gear you can no longer equip it on your account as its corrupted to your soul. If they even come close to this kind of design, I dunno how people will react
Mag7spy wrote: » Only people that would be mad are people that would try to exploit lol. If some BH or green kills you, they aren't giving your gear back lol.
Otr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Elder wrote: » You're never safe when dying. No matter what you're flagged as, there are penalties for deaths. Experience debt. Skill and stat dampening. Lower health and mana. Lower gear proficiency. Reduction in drop rates from monsters. Durability loss. A corrupt player suffers these penalties at four times the rate of a non-combatant, and will most likely require multiple deaths to remove their corruption entirely. Sure, you could mitigate the chance of losing equipment, materials and certificates by having a friend kill you repeatedly. You would also be guaranteeing these other harsh penalties are applied to you. Yes, I'm fully aware of how the system works. I'm considering those penalties as the default base penalty. I'd assume that in most cases, if you have friends with you - you gonna try grinding off your corruption and not die. But if you see that a group of people is coming towards you - the safest way to limit the loss of your resources/gear is for your mate to kill you. And I personally don't want that to be the case. Mag7spy wrote: » If you drop corrupted gear you can no longer equip it on your account as its corrupted to your soul. If they even come close to this kind of design, I dunno how people will react Only people that would be mad are people that would try to exploit lol. If some BH or green kills you, they aren't giving your gear back lol. To exploit what? PK-er must be rewarded for their participation in offering the risk in the game and the feelings associated with it.
Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Elder wrote: » You're never safe when dying. No matter what you're flagged as, there are penalties for deaths. Experience debt. Skill and stat dampening. Lower health and mana. Lower gear proficiency. Reduction in drop rates from monsters. Durability loss. A corrupt player suffers these penalties at four times the rate of a non-combatant, and will most likely require multiple deaths to remove their corruption entirely. Sure, you could mitigate the chance of losing equipment, materials and certificates by having a friend kill you repeatedly. You would also be guaranteeing these other harsh penalties are applied to you. Yes, I'm fully aware of how the system works. I'm considering those penalties as the default base penalty. I'd assume that in most cases, if you have friends with you - you gonna try grinding off your corruption and not die. But if you see that a group of people is coming towards you - the safest way to limit the loss of your resources/gear is for your mate to kill you. And I personally don't want that to be the case. Mag7spy wrote: » If you drop corrupted gear you can no longer equip it on your account as its corrupted to your soul. If they even come close to this kind of design, I dunno how people will react Only people that would be mad are people that would try to exploit lol. If some BH or green kills you, they aren't giving your gear back lol.
Azherae wrote: » If you take that exp hit to 'get rid of your low corruption so you don't have to worry about greens attacking you and making it worse', from your friends instead, isn't that just coordination?
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » If you take that exp hit to 'get rid of your low corruption so you don't have to worry about greens attacking you and making it worse', from your friends instead, isn't that just coordination? There's no coordination though. Your mate (with whom you already were most likely) is just the one to kill you, instead of a BH or a green. BHs lose pretty much any and all of their usefulness, while greens never get any potential Red drops. And yes, from how Steven answered my question, it definitely feels like he mainly had the "counter solo PKers" thought in mind when he was making changes to the L2's system. And I personally want this part of the system to be a bit harsher. This would mainly just promote corruption grindoff in guilds and would support BHs soooo much more than the current system. And imo this would be a much more fun "living on the edge" kind of deal, because in L2 clearing some karma when you were in a group was super easy. But it also didn't have BHs and resource drop on death, so this wasn't that big of an issue. As for gear drop, iirc the higher the amount the higher the chance, but yes, it's ultimately rng.
Otr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » You take a massive exp hit, but you are coordinated enough to not lose gear too. If you can recover the lost experience faster than getting the same quantity of resources you loot, it is worth being done. If the game is well balanced, choosing to kill and loot should bring risks too upon the PKer. That's the intention for small isolated cases. Killing and looting might work when a team is around to help with the corruption but then more people are blocked doing this activity for less loot. Probably they will move to target caravans if they really want to be efficient. If they don't do that, then their plan is to scare the gatherers and divert defenders away from caravans? Can also be that they enjoy killing helpless innocent gatherers, but if they can do that, then the server is really in chaos and no structured alliances are present anymore. In that case, something bad happened with the game imo.
Azherae wrote: » You take a massive exp hit, but you are coordinated enough to not lose gear too.
Azherae wrote: » Right but Ashes is a game where 'just having your friends with you to begin with' might be considered 'coordination'.
Azherae wrote: » People losing their gear from going Red temporarily might just be rare. Obviously as the 'one going to be doing all this stuff' it favors me. I just expected (wanted?) it to be different so that players who don't like being smacked around for being in my way without their friends would be more likely to feel like I was 'getting what I deserved', but that doesn't really mean that the gameplay would be better. Might just be that I'm not supposed to be terribly deterred once I stop caring about exp.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Right but Ashes is a game where 'just having your friends with you to begin with' might be considered 'coordination'. This is where my L2 bias shows too. To me, running in a party is literally the most basic thing you do in an mmo The only times I was farming alone in L2 was on high rate servers with automatic buffers and mana pots. Azherae wrote: » People losing their gear from going Red temporarily might just be rare. Obviously as the 'one going to be doing all this stuff' it favors me. I just expected (wanted?) it to be different so that players who don't like being smacked around for being in my way without their friends would be more likely to feel like I was 'getting what I deserved', but that doesn't really mean that the gameplay would be better. Might just be that I'm not supposed to be terribly deterred once I stop caring about exp. Yeah, and that's why I think that making the potential punishment that much harder would be fairly beneficial to the system. As I see it, constant groups would most likely have a designated "vacuum" member who'll never PK, so resource drops will not be an issue for Reds that are in a party. And if said party has a designated Red, their PK count will be quite high quite often, so gear loss would be quite probable. But due to the current setup, that probability is non-existent, because the party will just clear the Red's corruption as soon as he gets it. Especially if Intrepid allow us to rez the Reds (I'm on the fence about whether I'd like this or not) But even if we can't rez them, all you gotta do is wait a bit for BHs to run towards you; kill the PKer; loot whatever he drops; he respawns in a random location with a much lower amount of corruption (especially if, while you were waiting for BHs to approach you, you were farming mobs/XP) and cooperate in voice the quickest way to gather up again to clear the rest of the corruption. But if you couldn't attack your Red mate, now it's a real cat&mouse game of grinding off the corruption, while fighting off BHs in a very coordinated way (if you're trying to minimize your party's corruption) and potentially having other green parties coming to try and get your Red. To me that sounds like a much more fun system.
