Mag7spy wrote: » Ohmib0d wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Ohmib0d wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I dont think this would be good for a class that focuses on a bow it be giving them a extra cost where other classes don't have it. If you want skill to be involved it better that you just have to aim your shots. There is no extra cost. Bow class would have more advantage their magic archery abilities recharge infinitely and faster as you lv up and they unlock more skills. Both archery Non archery class can still equip regular bow but have little to no magic arrow skills just regular ammo for simple range attack When you are in a siege and you run out of arrows it will be very annoying. It is something that more is a hinderance so someone cant shoot infinite arrows for certain reasons in certain games. Id be fien with a arrow slow but id view it as more of like your offhand weapon with the bow, so you have your bow in main hand and arrow in offhand that can have different effects and such. Rather than a class being like im out of arrows guys i need to go back to town now. If this was a survival game or shooter sure, but i dont see a positive reason in a mmorpg to hinder them shooting arrows. DID YOU NOT READ MY POST??!!Archery class don't run out of arrows. They can use regular arrows wich is faster but limited or they can infinitely recharge magic arrow skills like other mmo. Every other class can equip a basic bow as a Secondary weapon for range attack but they still have their main weapon incase they are low on arrows. My title explicitly stated that it's based off of ghost of tsushima legends and it works tested and proven. Every archer class in that game has limited arrows but also special arrow ability that's unlimited. Non archery class have limited arrows but they have their own main weapon as backup I'm saying I don't agree with being able to run out of arrow unless they are getting a huge damage boost for the inconvenience. There is no gameplay reason why you should run out of arrows.
Ohmib0d wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Ohmib0d wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I dont think this would be good for a class that focuses on a bow it be giving them a extra cost where other classes don't have it. If you want skill to be involved it better that you just have to aim your shots. There is no extra cost. Bow class would have more advantage their magic archery abilities recharge infinitely and faster as you lv up and they unlock more skills. Both archery Non archery class can still equip regular bow but have little to no magic arrow skills just regular ammo for simple range attack When you are in a siege and you run out of arrows it will be very annoying. It is something that more is a hinderance so someone cant shoot infinite arrows for certain reasons in certain games. Id be fien with a arrow slow but id view it as more of like your offhand weapon with the bow, so you have your bow in main hand and arrow in offhand that can have different effects and such. Rather than a class being like im out of arrows guys i need to go back to town now. If this was a survival game or shooter sure, but i dont see a positive reason in a mmorpg to hinder them shooting arrows. DID YOU NOT READ MY POST??!!Archery class don't run out of arrows. They can use regular arrows wich is faster but limited or they can infinitely recharge magic arrow skills like other mmo. Every other class can equip a basic bow as a Secondary weapon for range attack but they still have their main weapon incase they are low on arrows. My title explicitly stated that it's based off of ghost of tsushima legends and it works tested and proven. Every archer class in that game has limited arrows but also special arrow ability that's unlimited. Non archery class have limited arrows but they have their own main weapon as backup
Mag7spy wrote: » Ohmib0d wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I dont think this would be good for a class that focuses on a bow it be giving them a extra cost where other classes don't have it. If you want skill to be involved it better that you just have to aim your shots. There is no extra cost. Bow class would have more advantage their magic archery abilities recharge infinitely and faster as you lv up and they unlock more skills. Both archery Non archery class can still equip regular bow but have little to no magic arrow skills just regular ammo for simple range attack When you are in a siege and you run out of arrows it will be very annoying. It is something that more is a hinderance so someone cant shoot infinite arrows for certain reasons in certain games. Id be fien with a arrow slow but id view it as more of like your offhand weapon with the bow, so you have your bow in main hand and arrow in offhand that can have different effects and such. Rather than a class being like im out of arrows guys i need to go back to town now. If this was a survival game or shooter sure, but i dont see a positive reason in a mmorpg to hinder them shooting arrows.
Ohmib0d wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I dont think this would be good for a class that focuses on a bow it be giving them a extra cost where other classes don't have it. If you want skill to be involved it better that you just have to aim your shots. There is no extra cost. Bow class would have more advantage their magic archery abilities recharge infinitely and faster as you lv up and they unlock more skills. Both archery Non archery class can still equip regular bow but have little to no magic arrow skills just regular ammo for simple range attack
Mag7spy wrote: » I dont think this would be good for a class that focuses on a bow it be giving them a extra cost where other classes don't have it. If you want skill to be involved it better that you just have to aim your shots.
NiKr wrote: » Ohmib0d wrote: » 1. Archery don't rely on arrow ammo but arrows are just a faster alternative to provide quick and explosive or poison arrow Except they will because that is how combat in Ashes works (as of rn at least). Basic attacks are valued, so if your basic attacks require money to execute - you're at a disadvantage against other classes. Ohmib0d wrote: » 2. Archery still have magic arrows that use magic points and have a cool down recharge like other mmo Except you have limited mana so your magic arrows are not unlimited. And usually they'll be way more limited than your basic attacks, even if the arrows for the basic attacks are limited. Ohmib0d wrote: » 3. I did state that after kill enemies archeries can loot some quantity of arrows so they don't have to keep going to buy more Ashes won't be a survival game though. If you, as an archer, are fighting in a party and see enemy parties coming towards you - you gonna kite them. You'll spend a ton of arrows w/o an ability to get back to all the people you've shot to pick them up, because those people will just respawn or get resurrected in the fight. Ohmib0d wrote: » Lastly you could make arrows cheap and come in high quantity when purchased. And yes there can be a crafting system to quickly craft basic arrows in large amount. Archery can craft faster or more, craft different ammo, and do more damage with regular ammo If the cost is so low - why even have it? And if you have huge amounts of them already - why limit it in the first place? Also, AoC's crafting system won't be as easy as you make it out to be. If Intrepid do decide to go down the path of limited arrows, it'll either be a shop-bought thing or a specialized crafter thing (could also be both). And unless the archer himself went down the crafter branch of artisanry - he probably won't be able to craft good arrows for himself. And even if you circumvent the crafting system just to let archers make their own arrows - they'll still need some resource to make them out of. And that resource will cost money. It was this way in L2 too.
Ohmib0d wrote: » 1. Archery don't rely on arrow ammo but arrows are just a faster alternative to provide quick and explosive or poison arrow
Ohmib0d wrote: » 2. Archery still have magic arrows that use magic points and have a cool down recharge like other mmo
Ohmib0d wrote: » 3. I did state that after kill enemies archeries can loot some quantity of arrows so they don't have to keep going to buy more
Ohmib0d wrote: » Lastly you could make arrows cheap and come in high quantity when purchased. And yes there can be a crafting system to quickly craft basic arrows in large amount. Archery can craft faster or more, craft different ammo, and do more damage with regular ammo
Mag7spy wrote: » All i see is you are adding extra steps for a class to make it more realistic and not more fun.
Ohmib0d wrote: » Ever thought of potions being limited but after a while you have high amount and the cost go down as you get more money?
Ohmib0d wrote: » Limitation helps avoid spam and non archery class from being primary arrow. Also, the high amount of arrow obtained will be useful for grind or weaker enemy for fast grind
Ohmib0d wrote: » The resource to craft arrow will be abundant and easy obtained without money needed
Elder wrote: » Instead of creating an entirely new system to apply status effects, why don't we use the enchantment and weapon skill tree systems. This is definitely a hat on a hat situation.
Ohmib0d wrote: » Elder wrote: » Instead of creating an entirely new system to apply status effects, why don't we use the enchantment and weapon skill tree systems. This is definitely a hat on a hat situation. I didn't say skills and abilities couldn't create status effect. I said arrows can too
Asgerr wrote: » If you want to user resources, then I think the way to do it is the following. You have a certain amount of resources, let's say 5 arrowheads (this decreases and increases depending on level). Certain instant or charged skills require 1 or more arrowheads to be used. To generate said arrowheads you need to user either specific skills or achieve a Crit with your basic attack or on your DoTs. You then expend them back again once your skills are off cooldown. Basic attacks have no limit on arrows. This now resembles a rotation that actually works, doesn't gimp the Archetype, limits the otherwise unlimited use of certain skills and has an interesting game loop.
Except most of the time the higher in lvl you go the better and more expensive potions you get, so they never really "just become cheap"
What spam? Archers will just shoot arrows the same way they would with unlimited arrows. Literally nothing changes except for the money requirement. And no, other classes won't magically become better than archers at using the bow if arrows are unlimited. Archers will have weapon skills for bows so they'll always be better at using a bow.
And again I ask: why have it cost anything if you mean to make the cost nothing? You're adding unnecessary steps to a perfectly fine and working system.
Ohmib0d wrote: » ] Asgerr wrote: » If you want to user resources, then I think the way to do it is the following. You have a certain amount of resources, let's say 5 arrowheads (this decreases and increases depending on level). Certain instant or charged skills require 1 or more arrowheads to be used. To generate said arrowheads you need to user either specific skills or achieve a Crit with your basic attack or on your DoTs. You then expend them back again once your skills are off cooldown. Basic attacks have no limit on arrows. This now resembles a rotation that actually works, doesn't gimp the Archetype, limits the otherwise unlimited use of certain skills and has an interesting game loop. Not sure if I get you but your saying the basic arrow attack should be infinite and the special archery skills cost resource?
Asgerr wrote: » Ohmib0d wrote: » ] Asgerr wrote: » If you want to user resources, then I think the way to do it is the following. You have a certain amount of resources, let's say 5 arrowheads (this decreases and increases depending on level). Certain instant or charged skills require 1 or more arrowheads to be used. To generate said arrowheads you need to user either specific skills or achieve a Crit with your basic attack or on your DoTs. You then expend them back again once your skills are off cooldown. Basic attacks have no limit on arrows. This now resembles a rotation that actually works, doesn't gimp the Archetype, limits the otherwise unlimited use of certain skills and has an interesting game loop. Not sure if I get you but your saying the basic arrow attack should be infinite and the special archery skills cost resource? Correct. Basic attack should not be limited by ammunition in my vision of it. You generate the class resource by using certain skills or using the basic attack or crits on DoTs. (I don't really have a preference on which one). And then you expend that class resource on the special skills. This however will mostly apply to Ranger based classes. A Fighter using a Bow, may get some augments and skills if he specs into it, but otherwise would be limited to the infinite basic attack (which in his case would deal considerably less damage than his melee weapon). This serves mostly for kiting, or keeping uptime when the monster or boss uses a close range AoE.
Ohmib0d wrote: » The same can be said for archery lv up. It will allow better craft better arrows upon lv up
Ohmib0d wrote: » Prevent just hitting same attack button infinitely brainlessly
Ohmib0d wrote: » It's not unnecessary. Goes back to my previous point. Helps just spamming attack button infinitely and if your party runs all bow then the archery craft helps everyone stock up on arrows
Ohmib0d wrote: » ] Asgerr wrote: » Ohmib0d wrote: » ] Asgerr wrote: » If you want to user resources, then I think the way to do it is the following. You have a certain amount of resources, let's say 5 arrowheads (this decreases and increases depending on level). Certain instant or charged skills require 1 or more arrowheads to be used. To generate said arrowheads you need to user either specific skills or achieve a Crit with your basic attack or on your DoTs. You then expend them back again once your skills are off cooldown. Basic attacks have no limit on arrows. This now resembles a rotation that actually works, doesn't gimp the Archetype, limits the otherwise unlimited use of certain skills and has an interesting game loop. Not sure if I get you but your saying the basic arrow attack should be infinite and the special archery skills cost resource? Correct. Basic attack should not be limited by ammunition in my vision of it. You generate the class resource by using certain skills or using the basic attack or crits on DoTs. (I don't really have a preference on which one). And then you expend that class resource on the special skills. This however will mostly apply to Ranger based classes. A Fighter using a Bow, may get some augments and skills if he specs into it, but otherwise would be limited to the infinite basic attack (which in his case would deal considerably less damage than his melee weapon). This serves mostly for kiting, or keeping uptime when the monster or boss uses a close range AoE. That's OK I guess. Gives a different take with some consequences on attack Guage usage. Feels weird but at least different. What game was that from?
