PVP system thoughts

I'm curious if you guys can find any flaws in this system. Would this be a viable PVP system?
Set it to where players cannot attack/heal/buff another player that is more than 10 levels above or below you.
Add a hidden system that starts a timer when player 1 kills player 2.
During this active timer, player 1 CANNOT start a fight against player 2.
Player 2 CAN start a fight with player 1 during this timer, if they choose. (Some people want revenge!)
This will kill his timer and allow player 1 to defend himself.

The timer could completely keep you from starting combat against a player you recently killed or it could just corrupt you, making you lootable and marking your location on the map for bounty hunters.

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Asgerr

Alienicon wrote: »

Well, shoot. I was anticipating this game for years, I thought surely they would not fall prey to the new gen kids wanting to pvp all the time and cater to those of us who like to chill and do other things that do not involve pvp.
I do not see any MMORPG's coming down the pipe that are of half the quality of this game. But even they have the option to avoid pvp. I guess my generation is too small or insignificant to give consideration to.

I think you're getting your timeline wrong.

Older gen players are the ones that were used to open world PvP and had to grow to live with it and become toxic to adapt.

It is new gen kids who want a PvE experience where no one can infringe on your fun.

Then again though I played WoW back in the day, my favorite MMO is FFXIV (just look at my forum signature).

But yeah, this has been the vision for the game since the very first day. That's what it is. And as Steven says, it won't necessarily be a game for everyone and that's fine.

Still, I think we all may be overblowing how prominent PK'ing will be. It may turn out to be a bloodbath int he first month or so. However, once the consequences of it (in the form of the Corruption system) becomes more understood, people will likely chill the F out and keep PK'ing to the voluntary portions of the game (Caravans, Node Wars, Sieges, Arenas etc)

CROW3

Alienicon wrote: »

I guess my generation is too small or insignificant to give consideration to.

This generational argument is pretty awkward. Just say it’s your opinion & play style.

Ludullu

Alienicon wrote: »

Well, shoot. I was anticipating this game for years, I thought surely they would not fall prey to the new gen kids wanting to pvp all the time and cater to those of us who like to chill and do other things that do not involve pvp.

The funny thing is, Steven's trying to recreate a game from 2004 and goes against quite a few of the current trends in mmos, so no, it's not about "the kids these days", it's about "boomers trying to relive their old days". I'm one of those boomers and that's the main reason I even got interested in this game.

And as Asgerr said, this has been the goal from the start, so I dunno how you got the wrong idea about the game.

CROW3

Lol. I love how ‘boomers’ is now pseudo-code for ‘anyone older than me’.

Alienicon

CROW3 wrote: »

Alienicon wrote: »

I guess my generation is too small or insignificant to give consideration to.

This generational argument is pretty awkward. Just say it’s your opinion & play style.

Hence the "my guess"

Alienicon

If you look at some of the games that cater to PVE that still exist. You will find the majority of the playerbase is 30+ people. Conan Exiles, EQ2, EQ1, etc. Even WoW to a certain extent with PVE being voluntary on all but the few remaining pvp only servers.
Obviously I can not prove this assumption but in my time in these games and playing with others this has been MY experience.

Okeydoke

Alienicon wrote: »

fall prey to the new gen kids

We have all been falling prey to the new gen kids for years now, in the form of terrible games. Ashes is trying to fix that.

As an aging guy myself, I sympathize with you. But I don't think it's going to be as bad as you're envisioning it to be. Read about the pvp systems in the Ashes wiki. Use logic, not emotion, to extrapolate out what it all means, the real implications, not just the words on the screen. After you do that, Ashes still may not be for you. But you'll probably come to a conclusion that is at least not as bad as you're envisioning now.

Asgerr

Alienicon wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Alienicon wrote: »

I guess my generation is too small or insignificant to give consideration to.

This generational argument is pretty awkward. Just say it’s your opinion & play style.

Hence the "my guess"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3xLbA6Fm-8&ab_channel=TheColorFreak

Ludullu

Alienicon wrote: »

If you look at some of the games that cater to PVE that still exist. You will find the majority of the playerbase is 30+ people. Conan Exiles, EQ2, EQ1, etc. Even WoW to a certain extent with PVE being voluntary on all but the few remaining pvp only servers.
Obviously I can not prove this assumption but in my time in these games and playing with others this has been MY experience.

The majority of mmos still alive are pve because they appeal to a broader audience (mainly younger one and those who can't play as much). But mmos started out as more hardcore and sometimes pvp ones, because the industry took more risks back then. I guess you just weren't in that bubble back then, which mainly tells me that it's not about your age but just about your personal preference in games.

Back in mid 00s I mainly saw pvp mmos because that's what my friends and I were interested in. And we saw WoW as the casualiest trash ever. And it just so happens that Steven played the pvp mmos too back then, which is why he's trying to make a new pvp mmo of his own.

Alienicon

Okeydoke wrote: »

Alienicon wrote: »

fall prey to the new gen kids

We have all been falling prey to the new gen kids for years now, in the form of terrible games. Ashes is trying to fix that.

As an aging guy myself, I sympathize with you. But I don't think it's going to be as bad as you're envisioning it to be. Read about the pvp systems in the Ashes wiki. Use logic, not emotion, to extrapolate out what it all means, the real implications, not just the words on the screen. After you do that, Ashes still may not be for you. But you'll probably come to a conclusion that is at least not as bad as you're envisioning now.

You very well may be right. I am probably conditioned by the previous games that had open pvp. It was a horrible gank fest and playing said games were not enjoyable for me. I was always uptight and paranoid of having my time wasted by some (how i envision them) lonely child thinking hes cool and ganking me.
But of other concern is even if the probability is low. For someone like me that likes to just go out for hours at a time farming mats, to lose some of that because of a pvp death is abhorrent.

Ludullu

Alienicon wrote: »

But of other concern is even if the probability is low. For someone like me that likes to just go out for hours at a time farming mats, to lose some of that because of a pvp death is abhorrent.

Say you're trying to gather some rare flowers in a dangerous location and a high lvl mob agroes on you and chases you. And you can't outrun it and die. How is this situation (which would be rare) any different to some rando attacking you once a week/month?

Dygz

Alienicon wrote: »

I have been searching and can not seem to find the answers.
My understanding is there will be no PVE only servers. So will there be a way to level and enjoy the game without ever having to worry about being ganked? If not, this won't be the game for me. I'm a old timer who has no need to feel tough by ganking people in a game. So I avoid it like the plague.

Well, the devs don't want to 100% you will never be ganked, but, yes...
There are avenues for you to pursue to help make being ganked exceedingy rare - esecially if you choose a server that has a low PK population: Artisan Path, Social Orgs, possibly Religions...

Okeydoke

Alienicon wrote: »

For someone like me that likes to just go out for hours at a time farming mats, to lose some of that because of a pvp death is abhorrent.

“The gods envy us. They envy us because we’re mortal, because any moment may be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we’re doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again.” - Achilles aka Brad Pitt lol

If it really is abhorrent (strong word) to you (I really hate to use the cliche) to lose pixels in a video game, then this may not be the game for you.

On the flip side, because that risk is present that you could lose some of your gatherables, it is all the more rewarding when you successfully get them back home and secure.

The only other alternative is to play a game that artificially makes you feel like you're a god, you cannot be killed or experience loss. The market is full of them, take your pick.

CROW3

To @Dygz’s point, there are ways to mitigate the risk of being attacked / killed while wandering in the wild, but it will never be a zero percent chance. That risk v. reward is a pillar of Ashes.

If you need a 100% chance of safety, may not be the game for you, and that’s ok. 🤗

Ludullu

I mean, there is a way to have a 100% safe playthrough of Ashes. You get a hardcore gamer friend. You get him to give you a ton of money right at lvl1. You buy yourself a freehold and start crafting on it, never leaving its footprint. If there's gonna be a siege on your node, you just log off and skip it. If you win - no issue. If you lose - you just have your friend help you move your shit. Rinse and repeat.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

I mean, there is a way to have a 100% safe playthrough of Ashes. You get a hardcore gamer friend. You get him to give you a ton of money right at lvl1. You buy yourself a freehold and start crafting on it, never leaving its footprint. If there's gonna be a siege on your node, you just log off and skip it. If you win - no issue. If you lose - you just have your friend help you move your shit. Rinse and repeat.

I was assuming @Alienicon was not interested in otPvX playstyle.

Of course I mean Other Players Vs Environment/Player.

CROW3

NiKr wrote: »

I mean, there is a way to have a 100% safe playthrough of Ashes. You get a hardcore gamer friend. You get him to give you a ton of money right at lvl1. You buy yourself a freehold and start crafting on it, never leaving its footprint. If there's gonna be a siege on your node, you just log off and skip it. If you win - no issue. If you lose - you just have your friend help you move your shit. Rinse and repeat.

Until there’s a node war and your freehold can be destroyed. Like I said there isn’t a 100% chance.

Ludullu

CROW3 wrote: »

Until there’s a node war and your freehold can be destroyed. Like I said there isn’t a 100% chance.

I addressed that though. You yourself can dodge all the killing. Yes, you might lose a bit of stuff but if you're just trying to avoid death at the hands of another player - there is a way.

Mag7spy

Me remember when people teleported my friend and I to their farming spot and we wondered how much money they had been making. Then we flagged up and killed them all looting 1 million gold XD. Guess i was that kid in older mmorpgs

Dygz

CROW3 wrote: »

Until there’s a node war and your freehold can be destroyed. Like I said there isn’t a 100% chance.

At some point, I will probably find the dev quote.
I think it's from a 2017 Q&A with Jeffrey, Steven and Soft Peter.
I think the question is "Can we completely avoid PvP combat?"
The answer is, "I would not want to guarantee you can 100% avoid PvP, but if you're an Artisan and focus on Crafting in a City, you can mostly avoid PvP combat." Some Social Org questing can also help with that.
Losing your housing in a Siege can be a consequence, but you can choose not to participate in Siege combat.

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