DPS Meter Megathread

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Mag7spy

You've already proved my point anyway in mentality saying you will use meters no matter what developers want and the TOS says. Toxic mentality does not change from some of the people that will use meters and want content to be created around it as well. Though i highly doubt you will ever leave your bubble and understand how toxic they are.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Its toxic and everyone knows it, honestly doesn't matter if you don't want to believe that because it doesn't fit what you want to get out of using a meter and viewing all people in your party.

I mean, there have been dozens of people post in this thread alone that the notion that a combat tracker being thought of as toxic is just outright incorrect - so no, not everyone knows it.

Also, since games exist with combat trackers and communities that are very low in toxicity, it is easily demonstrable that the statement "trackers cause toxicity" is false.

These are things you - and everyone else - just ignore. You basically close your eyes and cover tour ears in order to ignore actual evidence, and just repeatedly tell "everyone knows trackers cause toxicity", while sitting with your legs crossed, rocking back and forward.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Its toxic and everyone knows it, honestly doesn't matter if you don't want to believe that because it doesn't fit what you want to get out of using a meter and viewing all people in your party.

I mean, there have been dozens of people post in this thread alone that the notion that a combat tracker being thought of as toxic is just outright incorrect - so no, not everyone knows it.

Also, since games exist with combat trackers and communities that are very low in toxicity, it is easily demonstrable that the statement "trackers cause toxicity" is false.

These are things you - and everyone else - just ignore. You basically close your eyes and cover tour ears in order to ignore actual evidence, and just repeatedly tell "everyone knows trackers cause toxicity", while sitting with your legs crossed, rocking back and forward.

Lets say there is dozens of people, that doesn't come close to over 100 people against it. You are living in your own fantasy land really. The general thought is most people think is it only leads to added toxic behavior.

You are in a extreme minority of people that want to start tracking DPS of group members, and minority of trackers as a whole.

Mag7spy

Then we can take a step further and ask people if they want to support a mmorpg that logs all their stats and people can view how they play during content online. And ask them if they are fine if people remove them if their stats online aren't good enough for them. We will see real fast how many people are against it, you are in the less than 1%. People that go on forums are general more dedicated or hardcore type people, and the fact you have a minority here screams plenty. There isn't a more bias place (besides personal discords of course) that you could have something like this lean in your favor based on player types and it still isn't in your deck of cards.

And your argument is they can't stop me, there isn't a more toxic line than that.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Its toxic and everyone knows it, honestly doesn't matter if you don't want to believe that because it doesn't fit what you want to get out of using a meter and viewing all people in your party.

I mean, there have been dozens of people post in this thread alone that the notion that a combat tracker being thought of as toxic is just outright incorrect - so no, not everyone knows it.

Also, since games exist with combat trackers and communities that are very low in toxicity, it is easily demonstrable that the statement "trackers cause toxicity" is false.

These are things you - and everyone else - just ignore. You basically close your eyes and cover tour ears in order to ignore actual evidence, and just repeatedly tell "everyone knows trackers cause toxicity", while sitting with your legs crossed, rocking back and forward.

Lets say there is dozens of people, that doesn't come close to over 100 people against it. You are living in your own fantasy land really. The general thought is most people think is it only leads to added toxic behavior.

You are in a extreme minority of people that want to start tracking DPS of group members, and minority of trackers as a whole.

You seem to forget, most of the people against trackers are all for guild only trackers.

There are, in fact, only about a half dozen people that have actually engaged in this discussion and are still against them. The bulk of those that were initially against then other posted once and were not heard from again, or engaged in discussion and agreed that a guild based tracker was the best option.

The other thing you seem to be blatantly ignoring is the fact that no tracker is straight up not an option. It's either trackers as per basically every other MMO that you have played, or Intrepud building it in to the game client.

They are the two options available to us here. The ONLY two options.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Its toxic and everyone knows it, honestly doesn't matter if you don't want to believe that because it doesn't fit what you want to get out of using a meter and viewing all people in your party.

I mean, there have been dozens of people post in this thread alone that the notion that a combat tracker being thought of as toxic is just outright incorrect - so no, not everyone knows it.

Also, since games exist with combat trackers and communities that are very low in toxicity, it is easily demonstrable that the statement "trackers cause toxicity" is false.

These are things you - and everyone else - just ignore. You basically close your eyes and cover tour ears in order to ignore actual evidence, and just repeatedly tell "everyone knows trackers cause toxicity", while sitting with your legs crossed, rocking back and forward.

Lets say there is dozens of people, that doesn't come close to over 100 people against it. You are living in your own fantasy land really. The general thought is most people think is it only leads to added toxic behavior.

You are in a extreme minority of people that want to start tracking DPS of group members, and minority of trackers as a whole.

You seem to forget, most of the people against trackers are all for guild only trackers.

There are, in fact, only about a half dozen people that have actually engaged in this discussion and are still against them. The bulk of those that were initially against then other posted once and were not heard from again, or engaged in discussion and agreed that a guild based tracker was the best option.

The other thing you seem to be blatantly ignoring is the fact that no tracker is straight up not an option. It's either trackers as per basically every other MMO that you have played, or Intrepud building it in to the game client.

They are the two options available to us here. The ONLY two options.

In your mind you like to think that because you refuse to accept you are in the wrong. People are against them period, does it mean they won't play the game or they can deal with some aspect if there is no hope. Being ok with something doesn't mean its ideally with what they want everyone makes sacrifices.

But you don't care what they want, you only care about what you want and trying to comment and use peoples leeway to your advantage while having none yourself. Which that isn't even the case here with half the people being for guild trackers, forums are a 1% of players if that. Most people do not want trackers, do not understand them or use them, or would not want them if they understood certain elements in a larger bulk than people that would want them.

You can keep making things up in your head to convince yourself but again you are the extreme minority, people do not agree with what you want out of them and their bias is against trackers.

Arguments you create saying people will force trackers is not a argument for trackers. Stop trying to use that line to get people to give up what they ideally want. If people used that logic for everything in life it be stupid, like saying there are too many weapons so its too late to manage them for people.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

The other thing you seem to be blatantly ignoring is the fact that no tracker is straight up not an option. It's either trackers as per basically every other MMO that you have played, or Intrepid building it in to the game client.

They are the two options available to us here. The ONLY two options.

Eh, those are the only 2 for you

I bet a ton of people will never care to even look them up if Intrepid don't add them to the game. And even if Intrepid do add them, some people will completely ignore them.

But if you were talking purely about the top 1% of pve players, then maaaybe those are the only 2. I feel like there'll still be some people up there who won't use them.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

The other thing you seem to be blatantly ignoring is the fact that no tracker is straight up not an option. It's either trackers as per basically every other MMO that you have played, or Intrepid building it in to the game client.

They are the two options available to us here. The ONLY two options.

Eh, those are the only 2 for you I bet a ton of people will never care to even look them up if Intrepid don't add them to the game. And even if Intrepid do add them, some people will completely ignore them.

But if you were talking purely about the top 1% of pve players, then maaaybe those are the only 2. I feel like there'll still be some people up there who won't use them.

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827

Mag7spy

Downloads doesn't equal unique players.

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

Downloads doesn't equal unique players.

What number would you like to divide by?

What number of 'downloads per person' is required to make your point real?

Mag7spy

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Downloads doesn't equal unique players.

What number would you like to divide by?

What number of 'downloads per person' is required to make your point real?

It doesn't matter how you twist it, people can be downloading it multiple times for whatever the reason. Trying to flex a number based on downloads is pointless information.

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Downloads doesn't equal unique players.

What number would you like to divide by?

What number of 'downloads per person' is required to make your point real?

It doesn't matter how you twist it, people can be downloading it multiple times for whatever the reason. Trying to flex a number based on downloads is pointless information.

I suppose if you're wrong once, you must be willing to be wrong 1000 times. NiKr can decide if it is pointless information or not, I guess.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827

Does the counter count all downloads throughout the lifetime of the pluggin or unique downloads per each version? And on the off chance that it is unique per version, how many people are playing ff14 then?

I'm not dismissing the possibility that literally 18kk people decided to see their fight stats, but I somehow find it hard to believe that this many people care about it that much, especially in a game like FF14.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827

Does the counter count all downloads throughout the lifetime of the pluggin or unique downloads per each version? And on the off chance that it is unique per version, how many people are playing ff14 then?

I'm not dismissing the possibility that literally 18kk people decided to see their fight stats, but I somehow find it hard to believe that this many people care about it that much, especially in a game like FF14.

Would you prefer the numbers from Monster Hunter World? (PC only probably because of the way it works, you wouldn't use it on Console.)

Unique DLs
160,155

Total DLs
234,390

Here you are.

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.

Mag7spy

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Downloads doesn't equal unique players.

What number would you like to divide by?

What number of 'downloads per person' is required to make your point real?

It doesn't matter how you twist it, people can be downloading it multiple times for whatever the reason. Trying to flex a number based on downloads is pointless information.

I suppose if you're wrong once, you must be willing to be wrong 1000 times. NiKr can decide if it is pointless information or not, I guess.

Nice try trying to get away with throwing pointless information that has nothing to do with what people want or how they feel. On top of with download numbers, that is the definition of fake news with people reaching. I can see the point is ignore what people want and the to force it into the game and get people to use it and spread it, it is clear as day.

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Downloads doesn't equal unique players.

What number would you like to divide by?

What number of 'downloads per person' is required to make your point real?

It doesn't matter how you twist it, people can be downloading it multiple times for whatever the reason. Trying to flex a number based on downloads is pointless information.

I suppose if you're wrong once, you must be willing to be wrong 1000 times. NiKr can decide if it is pointless information or not, I guess.

Nice try trying to get away with throwing pointless information that has nothing to do with what people want or how they feel. On top of with download numbers, that is the definition of fake news with people reaching. I can see the point is ignore what people want and the to force it into the game and get people to use it and spread it, it is clear as day.

Yes, I understand that your feelings are very important, and so is the reality they create.

I was addressing someone else's reality. There is no further need to defend yours.

Mag7spy

Azherae wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827

Does the counter count all downloads throughout the lifetime of the pluggin or unique downloads per each version? And on the off chance that it is unique per version, how many people are playing ff14 then?

I'm not dismissing the possibility that literally 18kk people decided to see their fight stats, but I somehow find it hard to believe that this many people care about it that much, especially in a game like FF14.

Would you prefer the numbers from Monster Hunter World? (PC only probably because of the way it works, you wouldn't use it on Console.)

Unique DLs
160,155

Total DLs
234,390

Here you are.

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.

So you are using a DL number to try to say gauge people using it and then you use MH as your example. You can't make this up how lost are you. Honestly at this point I'm questioning your information it seems disingenuous at best. Are we going to bring in call of duty numbers next?

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827

Does the counter count all downloads throughout the lifetime of the pluggin or unique downloads per each version? And on the off chance that it is unique per version, how many people are playing ff14 then?

I'm not dismissing the possibility that literally 18kk people decided to see their fight stats, but I somehow find it hard to believe that this many people care about it that much, especially in a game like FF14.

Would you prefer the numbers from Monster Hunter World? (PC only probably because of the way it works, you wouldn't use it on Console.)

Unique DLs
160,155

Total DLs
234,390

Here you are.

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.

So you are using a DL number to try to say gauge people using it and then you use MH as your example. You can't make this up how lost are you. Honestly at this point I'm questioning your information it seems disingenuous at best. Are we going to bring in call of duty numbers next?

Would you like to use those? I would figure they were unnecessary, doesn't CoD have its own ingame tracker that reports at end of match? I suppose there may be some people out there who want more specific realtime tracking and have their own custom scripts?

I can look on GitHub if you like.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.

I mean, I didn't say that none were interested in it. Just that a ton of people wouldn't care for it. I could easily see a million players throughout ff14's lifetime redownloading that plugging 18 times. But that 1mil would be out of potential dozens of millions in that same time period. Yes, obviously people will care about their dps and deep combat log, but that still doesn't deny the fact that the majority wouldn't care (I mean, potentially).

That 160k of MHW is roughly half of its players on steam. And MHW is a game build around complex pve afaik, so it'd make sense that more people would be interested in maximizing their output. But ff14 is mainly about their story, with a ton of other sources of entertainment in the game too. And AoC will be about a ton of pvp, artisan stuff and definitely some pve too, but if a few sources of pve will be beatable by just <10% (allegedly), I'd assume that around 20 maaaybe 30% would be at all interested in even trying. At which point probably the majority of them would need a tracker (though this still depends on the boss design).

In other words, yes, obviously there'll be people who only have 2 options, just like Noaani, but I highly doubt they'd be the majority. But at that point we're just back to the "do Intrepid want FF14's situation" question. Cause as you pointed out, even with ff14's attitude towards meters/addons, that pluggin still has 18kk downloads, even if they might've come from just a mil or two of people.

Mag7spy

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

FFXIV Parsing Plugin (2.6.6.1)Downloads: 18069827

Does the counter count all downloads throughout the lifetime of the pluggin or unique downloads per each version? And on the off chance that it is unique per version, how many people are playing ff14 then?

I'm not dismissing the possibility that literally 18kk people decided to see their fight stats, but I somehow find it hard to believe that this many people care about it that much, especially in a game like FF14.

Would you prefer the numbers from Monster Hunter World? (PC only probably because of the way it works, you wouldn't use it on Console.)

Unique DLs
160,155

Total DLs
234,390

Here you are.

I simply ask you to consider that YOUR perspective is based on 'your gut feeling', whereas I'm not specifically claiming anything other than 'huh, a nontrivial number of people download and probably use these'. You 'not being in the group that does' does not trivialize their existence or impact.

So you are using a DL number to try to say gauge people using it and then you use MH as your example. You can't make this up how lost are you. Honestly at this point I'm questioning your information it seems disingenuous at best. Are we going to bring in call of duty numbers next?

Would you like to use those? I would figure they were unnecessary, doesn't CoD have its own ingame tracker that reports at end of match? I suppose there may be some people out there who want more specific realtime tracking and have their own custom scripts?

I can look on GitHub if you like.

You know the point you are simply trying to muddy the water. Debating on download numbers is the most pointless thing and doesn't speak much of anything. If it was a subscription type service and that pointed out people actually using it with direct numbers that would be more understandable. Regardless of the case someone can download it and not agree with wanting them or feel they are toxic and will prefer games without them or a focus on them.

Your points just boil down to they can't stop us we will d what we want and eventually able to do it in the open once we get enough people and we don't care what the TOS says. That is toxic in itself, and a clear direction on the mind set of some people that will use trackers for toxic behavior. The fact one of you made a point you have never seen toxic behavior while everyone else says they have seen it is already a red flag. Which shows there is most likely multiple levels of bias at hand layered on top of each other.

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