Weapon Master / Fighter feedback

With the basic weapon attacks released, and it looked absolutely spot on by the way!! I am a big fan of the fighter class in mmo's and dnd. When I heard that the weapon master class was used in the weapon attack demo I was thrilled. I am still thrilled like everybody here. This is my input as a fighter at heart on what I saw from the couple class abilities. These are just my opinions and feedback and may not represent how others feel.

The dash looks great, it's good for a fighter to have good footwork and maneuverability.
The magical looking hammer attack was okay, but I really like my fighters to steer clear of any magical looking type attacks, especially my weapon master, fighter fighter class. When you think fighter, particularly weapon master, usually you think of someone with great martial prowess and physical training, not magical skills aiding him unless it was from a team buff. I think you can achieve the same attack effect without the magical looking hammer. Perhaps a leap that crashes down and ripples the ground exploding at the same point. Or perhaps using your weapon or fist to punch or hit the ground twice as it ruptures at the point of impact previously shown. I know it could be a lot to animate for each weapon, so perhaps do it by weapon class, light medium heavy, or another idea.

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Dygz

In ashes, every Primary archetype has a magical Active Skill siilar to the Fighter's Hammer Strike.
Clerics have the Castigation whip.
Tanks have Javelin

Weapon_Master

Dygz wrote: »

In ashes, every Primary archetype has a magical Active Skill siilar to the Fighter's Hammer Strike.
Clerics have the Castigation whip.
Tanks have Javelin

That's my point I think fighters with magical attacks are anti thematic. Just because they do, doesn't mean they should. Atleast in my opinion.

Songcaller

If a Fighter is a weapon master why wouldn't the fighter use magical weapons? I would not considered anyone a weapon master if they can't wield all weapons...

Weapon_Master

Neurath wrote: »

If a Fighter is a weapon master why wouldn't the fighter use magical weapons? I would not considered anyone a weapon master if they can't wield all weapons...

Wielding magical weapons is different than using spells to do magical attacks. For example the lvl 1 noob weapon wouldnt be magical yet they can do magical hammer attacks with it. And it just so happens that all the weapons in the game have the same magical hammer ability attached to it? It is a stretch

This seems more appropriate for a battle mage type character or even the high sword

Songcaller

I wouldn't take any spells show cased as standard or indeed as written. Its all placeholder at best. We don't have full classes right now - just shells of classes. Until we see the whole skill roster it is difficult to dissuade or dispel your concerns.

I'm not sure why the level 1 weapon wouldn't be magical. I can agree that all weapons having the same skill effects is a piss poor way to implement the skills though. If we take the Padawan from Star Wars they can still use the force at 'level 1'. just not as well as a Jedi or Jedi Master. A level 1 lightsabre would still be a lightsabre.

Getting back to the fighter, it could be the amalgamation of the fighter with the weapon which cultivates the magical attack. If the fighter can still perform the attack without any weapon held then the theory would be quashed. However, my own beliefs are that magical spells are still weapons.

In theory, the fighter should be able to take magical spells from anywhere/anyone else and learn to use them. Such is the way of a Weapon Master.

Mag7spy

Please be combat this stream, please be combat this stream -hopium -

Underdelve

Mag7spy wrote: »

Please be combat this stream, please be combat this stream -hopium -

Ranged combat

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Ranger_timeline

*Takes Hopium canister from @Mag7spy and takes a big pull*

Underdelve

@Weapon_Master as far as I know, no weapon skills have yet been released. I believe that only class abilities, along with basic weapon attacks were available in Alpha-1. It could be that the Weapon skills, contained in the weapon skill lines, may be muted, from a magical presentation and effects standpoint. But given that, currently, mana is the resource pool used to fuel abilities, we may not get away from magic-type effects on all abilities.

I'm with you, clear distinction between weapon skills effects and class skill effects is warranted, and, I hope that the magic effects are toned down, as much as possible, so as to not obscure or confuse players about what is happening in encounters.

Weapon_Master

For me the whole archetype of fighter is the one class that stays away from magics and is fully committed to martial skills. It's one of the biggest appeals to me. A fighter with huge magical holy looking hammers looks more like a paladin than a fighter to me. It has the same spell effects as cleric spells. Which is why I made the post as a fighter lover I'd like to see it go a traditional fighter way instead of the magical fighter way. I figured i'd voice it early before they got to deep in the fighter design.

Songcaller

I've now watched the footage in question. I think the combat looked much better than past renditions. I'm not sold on the spinning whirlwind but then I prefer natural combat styles if I'm pushed.

The yellow hammer looked placeholder in every way. It was swift, horrid looking and very hit and miss. That withstanding, I feel the weapon does need some sort of aoe ability move at close range.

The yellow hammer is better than a thrown weapon or a grenade - weapon masters could use grenades, but, overall I had a good feeling for the current combat system as far as melee was concerned.

Zazariel

I agree with the original poster. The art direction needs to make the archetypes distinct.
A golden light effect makes me think more of a highlord than a weapon master.

Songcaller

Zazariel wrote: »

I agree with the original poster. The art direction needs to make the archetypes distinct.
A golden light effect makes me think more of a highlord than a weapon master.

There was no archetype, there was just the weapon skills. You are complaining about the Two Handed Sword from the information I gleaned in my brief browsing - not the Fighter. I still can't quantity or qualify the reason why the Two Handed Sword has a Hammer Skill Effect though. It is out of place in every way.

Zazariel

Neurath wrote: »

There was no archetype, there was just the weapon skills. You are complaining about the Two Handed Sword from the information I gleaned in my brief browsing - not the Fighter. I still can't quantity or qualify the reason why the Two Handed Sword has a Hammer Skill Effect though. It is out of place in every way.

Ok still my Bad then. But yeah if you told me that what we saw was the two handed skill with an hammer form it's a bit weird. Still arguing that animation and Artistic direction should be more precise, no need to do complicated thing.

Songcaller

Steven even said in the video the effects were placeholder. I only reiterated what the devs themselves stated. I mean, everything thats ever been shown has usually had the 'this is placeholder' tag added before hand. A lot of the feedback has been very positive because if you saw the previous renditions of combat those renditions were horrid. No one can make perfection in one go. Not even the Egyptians who created the great pyramid.

Weapon_Master

combat looks great I agree, just trying to give my take before its to late. It's fine if it's a placeholder. I just wanted to give my feedback early if they cared for it they could save a lot of hours animating and designing a bunch of magical looking attacks on my beloved fighter if they decided to go this route early.

Dygz

Weapon_Master wrote: »

For me the whole archetype of fighter is the one class that stays away from magics and is fully committed to martial skills. It's one of the biggest appeals to me. A fighter with huge magical holy looking hammers looks more like a paladin than a fighter to me. It has the same spell effects as cleric spells. Which is why I made the post as a fighter lover I'd like to see it go a traditional fighter way instead of the magical fighter way. I figured i'd voice it early before they got to deep in the fighter design.

Well, when you make your own game, you can design your classes the way you like.
In Ashes, Fighter has at least one magical attack.

Weapon_Master

Dygz wrote: »

Weapon_Master wrote: »

For me the whole archetype of fighter is the one class that stays away from magics and is fully committed to martial skills. It's one of the biggest appeals to me. A fighter with huge magical holy looking hammers looks more like a paladin than a fighter to me. It has the same spell effects as cleric spells. Which is why I made the post as a fighter lover I'd like to see it go a traditional fighter way instead of the magical fighter way. I figured i'd voice it early before they got to deep in the fighter design.

Well, when you make your own game, you can design your classes the way you like.
In Ashes, Fighter has at least one magical attack.

I heard go to the forum for feedback so here I am, got a problem with it go make your own forum and chat there xD

Songcaller

It wasn't the fighter we saw. It was a toon with a two handed sword. Could've been a tank, could've been a mage, could've been a cleric. The only differentiator was 'Basic Attacks' and 'Weapon Attacks'. Ashes is not New World or Throne and Liberty, the weapon does not dictate the class.

Weapon_Master

Pretty sure they confirmed in the video early on it was the weapon master but its still really early to know whats coming very hyped!

Songcaller

They could say it was Mr Blobby but until we see class abilities its just a toon with a two handed sword.

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