Things You Want to See in the Tax System

Things I'd Like:

1. Sales tax, property tax (or a rent-based system), and maybe even a crafting tax. So that the node's money pool fluctuates.

3. Mayors get a system determined salary from their nodes money pool.

4. If Mayors are allowed to spend money from the tax pool, all of their transactions with said money should be public to the node's citizens.

5. Social programs that a mayor can fund rather than buying individual things will provide a less exploitable system.
ex. Instead of a mayor buying siege weapons and handing them out. A mayor can divert funds into a war fund which gives their citizens a system derived package designed for a siege. This will keep mayors from buying things with node funds in order to resell and pocket the cash.

5. And overall, a system that incentivizes people to think carefully about which node they want to trade with.

What do you guys think?

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George_Black

The promised tax transfer caravans from castles, owned by guilds.

M33P

@George_Black

Could you elaborate or provide a link, I Kinda get what you're saying but kinda don't lol

Underdelve

M33P wrote: »

@George_Black

Could you elaborate or provide a link, I Kinda get what you're saying but kinda don't lol

Castle taxes are carried via NPC generated caravans from the nodes that fall under the castle's purview to one of the castle nodes at the end of each week leading up to a castle siege.[4]

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Castle_taxes

M33P

@Torc

Oh, that's pretty cool, I hadn't seen that yet. I hope it doesn't end up robbing the nodes of too much agency though. I'd much rather the castle just have a percentage tax on the node reserves, while the nodes can have a much more in-depth tax system.

Maybe even allow some nodes to lay outside the castles' zones.

*Nodes should also have some way to revolt against their assigned castle. Something like funding rival castles or denying taxes.

Songcaller

Child tax credits and pension contributions.

CROW3

Subsidized Dunir gaming licensing.

Warth

M33P wrote: »

Things I'd Like:

1. Sales tax, property tax (or a rent-based system), and maybe even a crafting tax. So that the node's money pool fluctuates.

3. Mayors get a system determined salary from their nodes money pool.

4. If Mayors are allowed to spend money from the tax pool, all of their transactions with said money should be public to the node's citizens.

5. Social programs that a mayor can fund rather than buying individual things will provide a less exploitable system.
ex. Instead of a mayor buying siege weapons and handing them out. A mayor can divert funds into a war fund which gives their citizens a system derived package designed for a siege. This will keep mayors from buying things with node funds in order to resell and pocket the cash.

5. And overall, a system that incentivizes people to think carefully about which node they want to trade with.

What do you guys think?

1. agreed with all of them

3. mayors shouldnt get a salary at all. There is plenty of people who will do it for free.

4. Mayors wont be allowed to spend tax money on anything outside the node system. That has been confirmed multiple times by Steven. Money that goes into the node system will stay/be depleted there. Its a closed system.

5. see Point 4. Your Siege Weapon example does not make sense to begin with.

Crafting Tax/Fee should scale with the complexity/quality/Level of the item.

I think whats missing from your proposal is a flat out tax from all npc-generated income you make (Hunting Certificates, Tasks etc.)

Warth

M33P wrote: »

@George_Black

Could you elaborate or provide a link, I Kinda get what you're saying but kinda don't lol

@M33P

Nodes will have to pax Tax to the castles they belong to. (Probably x% of all the tax money the Node gets)

This Tax Money will be transported through Caravans to the Castle (every x days) which makes them attackable/lootable by enemies of the Castle Owners.

daveywavey

Crafting Tax sounds pretty lame. Why penalise people for adding to the economy?

M33P

@Warth

Ya just read the wiki after they sent that link. It's a lot more fleshed out than I had previously thought. The only issue I have with castles doing taxes is that they prop up guilds as a sort of monarch of the server. I really do not want guilds to determine the tax system since there's like no upward mobility in terms of political power within guilds. Sure, someone can make a new guild to compete but that is an extremely hard barrier of entry compared to the nodes. Not to mention guild leaders will pretty much never change.

I'd rather 113 nodes influencing the politics of the server than the top 15 guilds (guild leaders), which the majority of people in the server will never get into the upper ranks of. Idk, I've never really been a fan of guilds so it could just be a me thing.

M33P

daveywavey wrote: »

Crafting Tax sounds pretty lame. Why penalise people for adding to the economy?

I mean taxes are used to build better workstations for the crafters. So, you would just be paying into upgrading your workflow.

Dolyem

Tax adjustment on individual artisan crafts. Allowing to raise or lower so the node can try to get more of one they need or tax one that is too abundant.

Hinotori

M33P wrote: »

@Warth

Ya just read the wiki after they sent that link. It's a lot more fleshed out than I had previously thought. The only issue I have with castles doing taxes is that they prop up guilds as a sort of monarch of the server. I really do not want guilds to determine the tax system since there's like no upward mobility in terms of political power within guilds. Sure, someone can make a new guild to compete but that is an extremely hard barrier of entry compared to the nodes. Not to mention guild leaders will pretty much never change.

I'd rather 113 nodes influencing the politics of the server than the top 15 guilds (guild leaders), which the majority of people in the server will never get into the upper ranks of. Idk, I've never really been a fan of guilds so it could just be a me thing.

It actually adds to the political intrigue though, because if the guild that the node taxes goto then fail to treat nodes fairly out of receiving kickbacks from townships or whatever then those towns will help facilitate guild castle sieges or will not fight when enemies engage in node wars.

Scarbeus

Being a Mayor is a reward in itself with what it allows you to do and the power and influence it brings. Players shouldn't receive money for doing it.

M33P

@Natasha

For me it's more of an issue with the power structure guilds are designed with than the actual mechanics that nodes and castles influence each other with. If guilds were meritocracies or democracies, I'd be all for it. I just don't want a singular person in control of that much power for an indefinite amount of time.

M33P

Scarbeus wrote: »

Being a Mayor is a reward in itself with what it allows you to do and the power and influence it brings. Players shouldn't receive money for doing it.

I suppose, but being a mayor also requires a lot of work to get to. Unless you're a streamer lol. Also, I think giving a cut to the mayor will incentivize them to grow their economy so that their own salary will grow.

It doesn't even need to be a lot of money tbh.

Nerror

So, in A1 the tax rate pretty much applied to all non-player to player transactions in the node. If the tax rate was set to 10%, it applied to all sold goods, including housing. On top of that we know housing will require a an upkeep. We can call it rent or property tax. So those things are already planned.

I would like to see more granular tax rates for different things in the node, rather than a flat rate for everything at once. For example, I would like to see the sales tax of a house be able to be different from the sales tax on crafting ingredients. It doesn't have to be different rates per item - that's too granular - but certainly different rates per category of sold goods.

I don't think mayors should get a salary. It's either going to be so low as to be symbolic and pointless, or it's high enough that it will attract the wrong people I think.

I certainly agree that taxes should never be able to be converted to or used as a personal fund for the mayor, in any roundabout way. I believe that is already the plan, so we should be good there if testing goes well. All funds go to node development, including node defenses.

To add to the inter-node trade system we know is coming, being able to set different tariffs depending on the type of goods and on the specific node that is being traded with could be interesting, but I don't think it should be a deeply complex system.

M33P

@Nerror

Do you know what exactly the castles will be taxing? And whether they have control over how much.

Nerror

M33P wrote: »

@Nerror

Do you know what exactly the castles will be taxing? And whether they have control over how much.

Only what's in the wiki: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Taxes#Castle_taxes

And yes the monarch controls the tax rate.

M33P

@Nerror
So probably just something based off GDP then. Them using the phrase "a tax" is pretty insuring. Thanks for clarifying everything.

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