Corruption system in relation to auto-flagging in open sea

This is not a post about if auto-flagging is good or not, or about preference between the two.
It is about the corruption system and the logic inconsistency of applying this system.
(for transparency, I would prefer the complete removal of this system, but what irks me more is the logic inconsistency)

The corruption system was presented as a tool that complies with the risk-vs-reward philosophy.

E.g. an attacker risks becoming corrupted if he kills a player that doesn't fight back and the defender risks losing much more loot if he doesn't fight back.
Both sides are risking in order to get rewarded.

In the open-sea, as Steven mentioned in the stream, the rewards will be grater and the risk needs to be higher.
Is the corruption system unable to handle that?
If the reward is more valuable, wouldn't that make the attacker more willing to become corrupted and the defender more willing to fight back to minimize his loses?

Why is now the corruption system presented as an obstacle to the risk-vs-reward philosophy for open-sea content?

In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers? E.g. if let's say 3 ships that are co-operating spot 1 ship, why wouldn't they attack? Where is the risk?
How are the bounty hunters affected by this change? Would they be able to hunt corrupted players in the open-sea?
Contrary to what Steven said, this change is actually going against the risk-vs-reward philosophy. If you outnumber the enemy, there is no risk in attacking.

You cannot treat the corruption system as a helpful tool for land content and as an obstacle for open-sea content.. those things cannot be true at the same time, just because the ground changes!

When you need to add exceptions to a system, in order to make the content fun, then maybe that system is not good enough.
If it is good enough, use it everywhere.. if it is not, remove it from everywhere!

The approach Intrepid is taking makes no sense.

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Comments

Dolyem

I totally recommended this in several threads. AND NOW ITS REAL! How does everyone feel about this? Its a pirates life for me!

Asgerr

Unless you decide to navigate along the coast from one end of the continent to the other, it will take a ship approximately what? 20 minutes tops from continent to continent by sea?

There won't really be time for much, unless you already had knowledge of time and place and destination, to lie in wait.

Sigtyr

I love it. I think it fits with their philosophy of risk vs reward and also creates a need for intercontinental diplomacy. If a guild or guilds can set up a scientific node on each continent then risk free travel can be implemented between them. Obviously one type of player will have a vested interest in this happening and being maintained, while another will not. This will be a catalyst for both conflict and diplomacy.

Dygz

LMFAO
It's a dealbreaker.
Like EvE and ArcheAge, that's too PvP-centric for me.
I won't be playing.
Unless we can use the Divine Gateways to port to starting areas on other continents.

mcstackerson

I'm excited! Can't wait for the pirating!

Sathrago

though im a little sad that fishing always gets tossed in with the dangerous areas, I do like them adding a "zone" that is full on pvp-encouraged. Pirates beware ill sic an army of swordfish on you.

Gaul_

I think it's a very big decision and it's a bad one that will reduce the success of the game.

The corruption system exists to prevent Ashes from becoming a gank box. Games that are gank boxes ALWAYS fail. [and if you don't agree with that statement, then why not remove corruption entirely?]

Why then, would you turn all of the ocean content into a gank box by removing the risk of corruption? There are plenty of other opportunities for PvP that are balanced for risk v reward.

If corruption works well on land then it should also be implemented for the water content. That was the original plan. This makes it seem like ocean is supposed to be some sort of advanced content zone, like EVE null sec.

Tyranthraxus

I greatly welcome this addition. Naval content will be special-interest, yet something that even casuals will have reason to partake in - even if only from time-to-time.

This will greatly support any Pirate-Raider-centric guild-themes; Living on an island or in a port-city will have entirely different context, when you know it's only safe to stick to the shallower, local waters....

Scarbeus

In regards to 'risk vs reward' its even more risky to travel across the water so the rewards should be higher.

I agree that fishing has now become very dangerous to pick, perhaps only add an autoflag zone once you go a certain short distance away from land. So you only get flagged when you hit the deep seas but can still fish in the shallower waters.

For those who may not know there is a limited amount of fishing you can do in land and standing on the coast, better fish have to be caught by going into water by boat.

mcstackerson

Scarbeus wrote: »

I agree that fishing has now become very dangerous to pick, perhaps only add an autoflag zone once you go a certain short distance away from land. So you only get flagged when you hit the deep seas but can still fish in the shallower waters.

I'd imagine there will be plenty of rivers and lake in-land for fishing.

TheDarkSorcerer

Where are you guys getting all this information? Did i miss a dev update?

DarkBloodEagles

Cant wait to become a pirate.

Dygz

You did miss it. Yes.

JustVine

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Where are you guys getting all this information? Did i miss a dev update?

About two hours ago yes.

TheDarkSorcerer

JustVine wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Where are you guys getting all this information? Did i miss a dev update?

About two hours ago yes.

Damn

Watching now. Isn't there normally like a tab at the top of the forums with upcoming planned dev update like a couple of days before? Must've somehow missed it.

Sathrago

Overthrow wrote: »

I think it's a very big decision and it's a bad one that will reduce the success of the game.

The corruption system exists to prevent Ashes from becoming a gank box. Games that are gank boxes ALWAYS fail. [and if you don't agree with that statement, then why not remove corruption entirely?]

Why then, would you turn all of the ocean content into a gank box by removing the risk of corruption? There are plenty of other opportunities for PvP that are balanced for risk v reward.

If corruption works well on land then it should also be implemented for the water content. That was the original plan. This makes it seem like ocean is supposed to be some sort of advanced content zone, like EVE null sec.

Well to be fair they are already adding similar zones to the inland as well. Maybe not as expansive as the entire sea, but its still something they have said they wanted in the game.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Open_world_battlegrounds

Okeydoke

Damnit watching the vod now and you spoiled this news for me Dolyem. Dygz get yur ass in the game. It's fine. I haven't seen the part of the stream yet where they talk about this, but I'd have to imagine if they're going to add a lawless zone like this, they may err on making the corruption system harsher in general.

Nerror

I think I like this change. It sounds like there's still going to be a significant portion of the ocean which is close to shore and non-flagged, and shore-hugging travel and fishing will definitely be a thing.

Open ocean has to be more rewarding with this change though I think. Bigger and more expensive fish to catch, NPC pirates with good loot, and whatever other ocean content we can think of.

Dygz

No. That's not what a Battlegrounds is for Ashes.
Ashes Battlegrounds are Caravans and Sieges; not zones. Rather... that's what they were before today.
Also, you opt-in/sign up to flag as Combatant for those.
We now have all Naval content as Battlegorunds with auto-flagging as Combatant just for entering the area.

This now a case of auto-consent for being PKed just by choosing to play the game, so...
I won't play the game.

Gaul_

Sathrago wrote: »

Well to be fair they are already adding similar zones to the inland as well. Maybe not as expansive as the entire sea, but its still something they have said they wanted in the game.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Open_world_battlegrounds

Oh, of course. It's a PvP game. What I'm referring to is the unstructured, open world pvp that corruption is intended to penalize.

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