Corruption system in relation to auto-flagging in open sea

This is not a post about if auto-flagging is good or not, or about preference between the two.
It is about the corruption system and the logic inconsistency of applying this system.
(for transparency, I would prefer the complete removal of this system, but what irks me more is the logic inconsistency)

The corruption system was presented as a tool that complies with the risk-vs-reward philosophy.

E.g. an attacker risks becoming corrupted if he kills a player that doesn't fight back and the defender risks losing much more loot if he doesn't fight back.
Both sides are risking in order to get rewarded.

In the open-sea, as Steven mentioned in the stream, the rewards will be grater and the risk needs to be higher.
Is the corruption system unable to handle that?
If the reward is more valuable, wouldn't that make the attacker more willing to become corrupted and the defender more willing to fight back to minimize his loses?

Why is now the corruption system presented as an obstacle to the risk-vs-reward philosophy for open-sea content?

In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers? E.g. if let's say 3 ships that are co-operating spot 1 ship, why wouldn't they attack? Where is the risk?
How are the bounty hunters affected by this change? Would they be able to hunt corrupted players in the open-sea?
Contrary to what Steven said, this change is actually going against the risk-vs-reward philosophy. If you outnumber the enemy, there is no risk in attacking.

You cannot treat the corruption system as a helpful tool for land content and as an obstacle for open-sea content.. those things cannot be true at the same time, just because the ground changes!

When you need to add exceptions to a system, in order to make the content fun, then maybe that system is not good enough.
If it is good enough, use it everywhere.. if it is not, remove it from everywhere!

The approach Intrepid is taking makes no sense.

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Comments

HybridSR

Are some of you drama queens actually pretending there will be an army of ships waiting exclusively to kill you in the open sea?

I swear, some of you are borderline psychotic. The sea is massive. Literally grab a sea mount, go underwater if you see anybody and take a turn. Boom, you're safe. You're more likely to never see anyone, unless you're slow enough to try to cross the sea right next to the major nodes... in which case, I DO hope you get ganked in the middle of the sea. Repeatedly.

Okeydoke

Be nice @Elleandrias

I agree about casuals and hand holding. They are truly part of what is destroying modern day games. I swear to god it's so hard for me to find a game anymore that's not just a mindless clicking simulator.

But be nice. Dygz is a homie.

Sathrago

HybridSR wrote: »

Are some of you drama queens actually pretending there will be an army of ships waiting exclusively to kill you in the open sea?

I swear, some of you are borderline psychotic. The sea is massive. Literally grab a sea mount, go underwater if you see anybody and take a turn. Boom, you're safe. You're more likely to never see anyone, unless you're slow enough to try to cross the sea right next to the major nodes... in which case, I DO hope you get ganked in the middle of the sea. Repeatedly.

I hope riding around on a water mount is quite dangerous and makes you live bait for that goliath fish monster boss.

My point being it's a bad idea to give water mounts too much freedom otherwise boats will be less relevant.

Solmyr

There are a couple things to keep in mind with this change:

Pirates will have to contend with other pirates, no corruption means everyone is in danger, including criminals.
Trade ships will be some of the most lucrative things in the game, for both traders and pirates.
Escort fleets will be in high demand. Guilds filling that role would likely find themselves in charge of a major port node in fairly short order.
Depending on where the harbors are located, there could be quite a few relatively safe routes to and from the various islands.

Obviously, we'll have to wait till we actually play it to know how it works, but other games have tried PvP zones like this and it's worked pretty well. Not a PvPer myself, but I do enjoy taking risks for greater rewards.

Hartwell

ChaIk wrote: »

There are a couple things to keep in mind with this change:
Pirates will have to contend with other pirates, no corruption means everyone is in danger, including criminals.

Trade ships will be some of the most lucrative things in the game, for both traders and pirates.

Escort fleets will be in high demand. Guilds filling that role would likely find themselves in charge of a major port node in fairly short order.

Depending on where the harbors are located, there could be quite a few relatively safe routes to and from the various islands.

Obviously, we'll have to wait till we actually play it to know how it works, but other games have tried PvP zones like this and it's worked pretty well. Not a PvPer myself, but I do enjoy taking risks for greater rewards.

It might also be worth bringing up quest driven caravans, too. Unorganized players tend have at things alone, but if a caravan were to be announced ahead of time, it might result in a large gathering of people with shared interests. A galleon of randomly assembled individuals signed up to defend a caravan could kill anyone not assigned as a defender on sight. It would alleviate the issue of not knowing who is friend or foe.

Dygz

Elleandrias wrote: »

Ah yes, another casual crying because they aren't good enough to play the game and just want to be hand-held Don't play the game then kiddo, stop crying on the forums and having your alt accounts like your posts lol its very pathetic

LMAO
Who is crying?? I'm not even complaining. I simply shared that it's a dealbreaker for me.

tautau

@Elleandrias
Dygz is about as far from being a care bear casual as is possible!

Why don't you click on your name (to see your likes, awards, posts and the like) and then click on his and make a quick comparison.

Elleandria

tautau wrote: »

@Elleandrias
Dygz is about as far from being a care bear casual as is possible!

Why don't you click on your name (to see your likes, awards, posts and the like) and then click on his and make a quick comparison.

So likes on a forum makes him not a casual? xD Sure thing buddy

Hartwell

Dygz wrote: »

Elleandrias wrote: »

Ah yes, another casual crying because they aren't good enough to play the game and just want to be hand-held Don't play the game then kiddo, stop crying on the forums and having your alt accounts like your posts lol its very pathetic

LMAO
Who is crying?? I'm not even complaining. I simply shared that it's a dealbreaker for me.

If there were alternative paths that provided lower risk, but lower reward, would you feel differently about the open sea as a high risk path? Steven is all about that risk and reward. I kind of wish he went into the low risk options vs. the high risk options for traversing the world in this new system.

Dygz

Haha!
I think I am a carebear casual.
I'm casual challenge/hardcore time.

It's OK for me not to play MMORPGs that are too PvP-centeric or hardcore challenge for my playstyle.
And, whether I actually play Ashes has always been contingent upon whether Corruption is a sufficient deterrent to unwanted PvP combat. I just found out today instead of during Alpha 2.
That's all fine.

Elleandria

Okeydoke wrote: »

Be nice @Elleandrias

I agree about casuals and hand holding. They are truly part of what is destroying modern day games. I swear to god it's so hard for me to find a game anymore that's not just a mindless clicking simulator.

But be nice. Dygz is a homie.

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Sigtyr

Dygz wrote: »

Haha!
I think I am a carebear casual.
I'm casual challenge/hardcore time.

It's OK for me not to play MMORPGs that are too PvP-centeric or hardcore challenge for my playstyle.
And, whether I actually play Ashes has always been contingent upon whether Corruption is a sufficient deterrent to unwanted PvP combat. I just found out today instead of during Alpha 2.
That's all fine.

I’m sure you won’t, but I wouldn’t give up that easily. A lot of people think they are super hardcore PvPers until the actual elite players come in and wipe the floor with them. I’m sure within a couple months of alpha 2 launching people will be begging them to change it, and at that point it’s just a matter of whether or not Intrepid concedes. It’s not like this is a core design pillar. The system has room for tweaking or they could completely backpedal. Time will tell.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Haha!
I think I am a carebear casual.
I'm casual challenge/hardcore time.

It's OK for me not to play MMORPGs that are too PvP-centeric or hardcore challenge for my playstyle.
And, whether I actually play Ashes has always been contingent upon whether Corruption is a sufficient deterrent to unwanted PvP combat. I just found out today instead of during Alpha 2.
That's all fine.

In any case, despite our differing outlooks, I am not going to sit here and "haha I told ya so". If you do maintain an interest in alpha 2 and decide to play beyond it, I would be happy to practice some PVP with you (to see if you may enjoy it, who knows right?) Believe it or not I don't want you gone! And who knows, the Open Ocean may not be included in the short distances between islands and continents. You could very well have a sort of "land bridge" with the island in the center of the continents

Okeydoke

Elleandrias wrote: »

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Very well. Free country, you can do what you want. Dygz is a grown man, doesn't need me sticking up for him. Not trying to say what you said is horrible or anything, it's not. I just believe in being nice.

Trust me I feel some of the same rage you do at the state of gaming. I just try to control it. But this is a forum and the purpose of it is vigorous debate, so have it.

Dolyem

Elleandrias wrote: »

Okeydoke wrote: »

Be nice @Elleandrias

I agree about casuals and hand holding. They are truly part of what is destroying modern day games. I swear to god it's so hard for me to find a game anymore that's not just a mindless clicking simulator.

But be nice. Dygz is a homie.

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Isn't Enveus one of the Mega Guilds interested in Ashes? Could be wrong, but if they are, I don't ever recall those being healthy for MMO Game Communities.

Elleandria

Dolyem wrote: »

Elleandrias wrote: »

Okeydoke wrote: »

Be nice @Elleandrias

I agree about casuals and hand holding. They are truly part of what is destroying modern day games. I swear to god it's so hard for me to find a game anymore that's not just a mindless clicking simulator.

But be nice. Dygz is a homie.

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Isn't Enveus one of the Mega Guilds interested in Ashes? Could be wrong, but if they are, I don't ever recall those being healthy for MMO Game Communities.

They're usually the only thing keeping the hardcore side of a game alive and thriving because the casuals that don't want open world PvP wouldn't be in them, they're usually off on their own or not playing the game because it doesn't suite them like 90% of gamers. Reason why i don't play Tarkov just to complain about Evacing or something else, i just don't play the game.

Dolyem

Elleandrias wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Elleandrias wrote: »

Okeydoke wrote: »

Be nice @Elleandrias

I agree about casuals and hand holding. They are truly part of what is destroying modern day games. I swear to god it's so hard for me to find a game anymore that's not just a mindless clicking simulator.

But be nice. Dygz is a homie.

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Isn't Enveus one of the Mega Guilds interested in Ashes? Could be wrong, but if they are, I don't ever recall those being healthy for MMO Game Communities.

They're usually the only thing keeping the hardcore side of a game alive and thriving because the casuals that don't want open world PvP wouldn't be in them, they're usually off on their own or not playing the game because it doesn't suite them like 90% of gamers. Reason why i don't play Tarkov just to complain about Evacing or something else, i just don't play the game.

From my experience non-mega guild players avoid mega guild servers like the plague, even hopping servers and inevitably causing those mega guilds to hop servers due to not having anyone to compete with, causing a disruption on the entire new server to the point where it tends to make it crash and burn. But I have only seen that happen like 6 or 7 times.

Dygz

Elleandrias wrote: »

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Um. How does my choice not to play ruin the game?

Azherae

Dygz wrote: »

Elleandrias wrote: »

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Um. How does my choice not to play ruin the game?

Somehow, my instincts tell me that losing you is a bad sign.

I'll hope they're wrong.

Elleandria

Dolyem wrote: »

Elleandrias wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Elleandrias wrote: »

Okeydoke wrote: »

Be nice @Elleandrias

I agree about casuals and hand holding. They are truly part of what is destroying modern day games. I swear to god it's so hard for me to find a game anymore that's not just a mindless clicking simulator.

But be nice. Dygz is a homie.

I don't pander nor do i conform to casuals that want to ruin games because they can't handle just not playing it. Dygz is one of those homies and i don't support it at all because its what has ruined almost every single MMORPG currently out, its just mindless casuals like you said.

Isn't Enveus one of the Mega Guilds interested in Ashes? Could be wrong, but if they are, I don't ever recall those being healthy for MMO Game Communities.

They're usually the only thing keeping the hardcore side of a game alive and thriving because the casuals that don't want open world PvP wouldn't be in them, they're usually off on their own or not playing the game because it doesn't suite them like 90% of gamers. Reason why i don't play Tarkov just to complain about Evacing or something else, i just don't play the game.

From my experience non-mega guild players avoid mega guild servers like the plague, even hopping servers and inevitably causing those mega guilds to hop servers due to not having anyone to compete with, causing a disruption on the entire new server to the point where it tends to make it crash and burn. But I have only seen that happen like 6 or 7 times.

Seeing as the majority of the mega guilds for Ashes don't have people that are going to leave a server because they're getting steamrolled I dont see that happening, nor have i ever seen it happen in any other game i've played.

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