I think Teleport will be the Meta

Instant movement between distant locations is simply too powerful to ignore. I think it will be best for Lvl 6 nodes to all go for Teleportation and then use policies to distribute buffs amongst the main city and the vassals.

Production bonuses and combat upgrades are nice, but getting people to and from distant locations instantly (or nearly instantly) is a much stronger production and combat bonus. Especially with large raids and siege mechanics, instant response and free movement are huge force multipliers.

I think the teleport mechanic will be almost impossible to balance. Its one of those things that will be too good and basically required, or nerfed into uselessness and never be considered. Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm not able to see anything outside of these two extremes.

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Dygz

On servers where most people want fast travel... sure.
People who hate fast travel will strive to destroy Science Nodes - especially multiple Science Nodes.

WHIT3ROS3

Diamaht wrote: »

Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm not able to see anything outside of these two extremes.

This generally isn't a very good way to look at anything, in games or in life. Perhaps ask yourself

"How could teleportation (and other metro-buffs) be balanced in a way, so that one doesn't become defacto-dominant?"

What will this teleportation actually allow? Will it be instant? Free? Will you be able to carry items/gear or will you have to go naked? Will there be a cool down or other limitations put in place? All questions, depending on their answers, could lead to your aforementioned doomsday extremes, or perhaps, another outcome entirely.

Warth

@Diamaht while i share some of your worries.

Distant seems to be the wrong word here. It literally is local teleportation by definition as you can only teleport to the nodes vassalized by the Science Metro.

With restrictions to carrying materials and processed goods, the teleportation will only ever work one way as well which already halves the value.

Also, why would you want a science metropolis other than your own? You cant use their teleportation, thats reserved for citizen.

Providing rivaling players with the benefit of fast travelling is of no benefit to you.
Keep your own science metro, prevent others from getting theirs seems the way to go.

insomnia

Considering how we lack information we have, it's hard to say. As said. What are the limitation on the fast travel. I just looked on the wiki.
Military node benefits:
Military nodes enable Bounty hunters and reduced duration of corruption.
That sounds like something PvP'ers would want. Plus they would want to destroy peoples ability to fast travel.

Economic node benefits
Economic nodes that have reached the metropolis stage unlock the linked economy superpower. Economic nodes with this superpower share their Auction house listings with all others.[3]

Up to two economic metropolises may be linked in this manner.[7]
Metropolis level economic nodes enable worldwide sale prices for auction houses across Verra.[3]
Items listed in one linked economic node can be bid on from any other linked economic node.[3]
Linked economies also connect the economic metropolis and its vassal economic nodes.[3]
Economic Nodes that have reached the Metropolis Stage unlock the Superpower “Linked Economy”. Any Economic Node with this Superpower unlocked shares Auction House listings with all the others, meaning that the items listed in one Linked Economy Node can be bid on from any other Linked Economy Node. Linked Economies also connect a Metropolis and any Vassal Economic Nodes belonging to that Metropolis.[3]

The Linked Economy Superpower has the potential to create a massive market that spans the world. This will allow players to attain and sell goods with ease, providing those who have access to these Economic Nodes a faster path to fortune in the lands of Ashes of Creation.

That is for people who use the auction house a lot.

Veeshan

Dygz wrote: »

On servers where most people want fast travel... sure.
People who hate fast travel will strive to destroy Science Nodes - especially multiple Science Nodes.

Down with science down with science, think there technology is fancier than our we smash it

lol

Dygz

We currently have very little info about how extensive Teleports might be.

BaSkA_9x2

It all boils down to how good the other node types are. Scientific, so far, is the best type of node, but that can change very quickly if they announce more/better superpowers for the other metropolises.

PherPhur

BaSkA13 wrote: »

It all boils down to how good the other node types are. Scientific, so far, is the best type of node, but that can change very quickly if they announce more/better superpowers for the other metropolises.

Considering how nodes are the most central mechanic in the game I'd be willing to bet the other super powers are really game changing, especially considering what we already know of the scientific node.

Ironhope

We won't know until we see what the other nodes provide and how powerful teleportation actually is (maybe it has a large cost or very long cooldown or causes debuffs).

Even if it is the meta initially (first month or months) there's no reason why Intrepid couldn't nerf it or buff the other node perks.

Diamaht

I don't think so guys. This game is PvP focused enough, with enough actual consequences for siege combat, that people will not have the luxury of simply choosing the style the like best unless those choices are subtle.

A buff to production or gathering is one thing, instantly transporting forces around your node network to respond to caravan threats or incursions is something else entirely. I would argue that instant deployment of defenders is a far stronger caravan buff than any balanced buff an economic node can provide.

Obviously we shall see how it works in the Alphas.

Asgerr

Veeshan wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

On servers where most people want fast travel... sure.
People who hate fast travel will strive to destroy Science Nodes - especially multiple Science Nodes.

Down with science down with science, think there technology is fancier than our we smash it lol

I mean that's basically the entire premise of all the Spiderman comics. All the bad guys are victims of scientific experiments.

Science bad. All hail the religious nodes and the glorious crusades!

SongRune

Diamaht wrote: »

Instant movement between distant locations is simply too powerful to ignore. I think it will be best for Lvl 6 nodes to all go for Teleportation and then use policies to distribute buffs amongst the main city and the vassals.

Production bonuses and combat upgrades are nice, but getting people to and from distant locations instantly (or nearly instantly) is a much stronger production and combat bonus. Especially with large raids and siege mechanics, instant response and free movement are huge force multipliers.

I think the teleport mechanic will be almost impossible to balance. Its one of those things that will be too good and basically required, or nerfed into uselessness and never be considered. Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm not able to see anything outside of these two extremes.

1. Only Scientific type metropolis get teleportation.
2. They probably don't have to spend a Policy choice on it, because it's an innate property of the node type.
3. There is no player choice in node type: "Node types are predetermined and are the same across all servers.[7]".

It can't really be a meta if it's not something you can choose.

Cat Quiver

Warth wrote: »

@Diamaht while i share some of your worries.

Distant seems to be the wrong word here. It literally is local teleportation by definition as you can only teleport to the nodes vassalized by the Science Metro.

Also, why would you want a science metropolis other than your own? You cant use their teleportation, thats reserved for citizen.

Providing rivaling players with the benefit of fast travelling is of no benefit to you.
Keep your own science metro, prevent others from getting theirs seems the way to go.

ButtercupClover

We should also remember that our info on the node types are old and incomplete. We don't know if they've rebalanced the scientific node and we also don't know what divine and military nodes offer at stage 6.

Fast travel isn't the main appeal of a science node, it's the legendary crafting stations. Without those, no one can achieve BiS. If those services moved to another node type then scientific might not be the best choice of a node.

Warth

Cat Quiver wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

@Diamaht while i share some of your worries.

Distant seems to be the wrong word here. It literally is local teleportation by definition as you can only teleport to the nodes vassalized by the Science Metro.

Also, why would you want a science metropolis other than your own? You cant use their teleportation, thats reserved for citizen.

Providing rivaling players with the benefit of fast travelling is of no benefit to you.
Keep your own science metro, prevent others from getting theirs seems the way to go.

Thanks for the screenshot @Cat Quiver do you wanted to tell me anything with that or were you merely trying to underline what i said with the wiki entry?

Diamaht

From the Wiki

Scientific node benefits

Scientific nodes that have reached the metropolis stage unlock the Teleportation superpower.[20]

Citizens of metropolis scientific nodes may teleport between the metropolis and any of its vassal nodes, regardless of the stage of the vassal node, so long as the vassal node is not at war.

Citizens of vassal nodes may teleport to their metropolis node and back.

If there are multiple scientific metropolises, then an airship will provide faster travel between those scientific metropolises for citizens of those nodes and their vassal nodes, so long as the metropolises are not at war.

This will allow Citizens and Vassals of Scientific Metropolises to do things more quickly than others, as fast travel is limited in the world of Ashes of Creation. They’ll be able to exchange goods and information with ease and get to locations in the world at a quicker speed in order to gather crafting materials to create recipes, as well as participate in limited-time events.[20]

Also the Wiki

Crafting stations

Crafting stations (also referred to as Crafting benches or Workbenches) are located on freeholds or within nodes.[5][6]

Crafting stations relate to specific nodes, areas, or buildings.[5]
Different tiers of crafting stations represent the quality of the items that can be crafted.[5]
Higher tier crafting stations are unlocked with node progression.[7]
Legendary crafting benches are present in the Academy unique building of Metropolis (stage 6) Scientific nodes.[18]
Upper-tier crafting benches within a node are accessible by its citizens.[19]

If these descriptions are correct, top tier crafting stations combined with the only method for fast travel in the game means that you should discover all the Scientific nodes and make sure they become the Teir 6. Then distribute the other nodes as you see fit. It would be crazy not to do it this way.

Here is how it will play out I think:

1) Launch - Everything is novel and new. People will explore, test things out, have various set ups.
2) Progression - People with level up, BiS is not a factor, systems will be played around with. All is well.
3) Start of Endgame - People will start grinding out gear, establishing homes, meeting people, forming guilds and alliances. At this stage people will begin to min/max and try to find ways to economize their time.
- "I need to get x resource or y component." "I can spend 3 to 5 mins going between each market or I can head over to the Science Node and hop between markets instantly."
- "Oh look the Legendary Crafting Benches are here along with all the crafters."
- "Oh look, anything I can't find here is simply a warp or an Airship ride away to the next node or the next Metropolis."

Not perfect examples, but in this way the most convenient style of nodes will become hubs and take over on all servers (especially once the word gets out). People will 100% bypass the longer travel times once the newness of the game wears off.

Nodes that won't convert to the more convenient format will see their populations dwindle leaving them open to attack, so eventually they too will conform. I think this is a bad thing, but based on current info this is an inevitability.

George_Black

I agree with op. But we dont know details yet. I hope there is reason not to choose scientific nodes in every occasion. Testing and further development will show.

akabear

Might just depend on how resource / activity rich areas are in near proximity to a given node as to the weather teleports become a highly desired element

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