Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Well, we know that. If unclear, I absolutely agree with you on that.
I just think, after seeing much more ArcheAge content, that this is explicitly the goal. I don't feel that Corruption was ever supposed to be a real risk or punishment, just 'a different gameplay style'. We already got people forming theoretical future 'perma-red guilds'.
But ArcheAge is technically 'supposed to feel like a high seas pirate game' sometimes. If you live in coastal nodes, expect Pirate attacks. Particularly because stealing someone's Materials and then escaping with your Pirate Crew by ship adds a massive amount to the escape chances, while creating a 'natural gameplay opportunity' for everyone.
You're not getting 'griefed' by Pirates probably, they're taking your stuff and then hauling off, probably through epic chases, etc. But ArcheAge's open sea content is explicitly for a different 'tier' of player, so using it to support "Pirates" is pretty useful.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2022
Yes. I’m just saying that it doesn’t actually jive with the reasoning Steven gave us during the live stream.
And…if Corruption is really just supposed to be a different form of PvP… I definitely would not be playing Ashes.
And, yeah, again…
I specifically chose not to play ArcheAge due to the naval combat.
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
Yes. I’m just saying that it doesn’t actually jive with the reasoning Steven gave us during the live stream.
It depends on how one interprets Risk vs Reward as a concept, and you know how that goes.
"Encountering more powerful opponents is a risk, for which you may gain the reward of whatever you can gather if you outwit/outrun/outfight/don't encounter them."
You're aware of it probably even more than I was. If I'd known the precise mechanics of ArcheAge before, I wouldn't have assumed that 'Risk' and 'Reward' meant the same thing to Steven as they do to me, for example. I don't think it's outside of the scope. There's a consistent thread of 'not considering the effects of (or on) a single Actor to be relevant' in that game, and similarly if you read Steven's statements about the game through that lens, they all make more sense, a lot of 'contradictions' disappear.
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
That's still less risk.
A red is already at risk with 'everyone' ready and willing to PvP and knowing they can get dropped loot on land. It's riskier on land because now the Greens will attack you too if they think they can beat you, but you get a greater penalty if they're wrong.
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
Honestly sorry wasn't really directed at you, just people thing that red isn't a punishment with the draw backs including more corruption gain per skill and stat reduction, loot drops even if you only have 1 corruption.
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
That's still less risk.
A red is already at risk with 'everyone' ready and willing to PvP and knowing they can get dropped loot on land. It's riskier on land because now the Greens will attack you too if they think they can beat you, but you get a greater penalty if they're wrong.
Yes but at sea you can assume everyone intends to pvp, which makes those players a bigger threat than green who decides to attack a corrupted. On land a corrupted risks more corruption or dying, on sea you don't get more corruption but you have a much higher likelihood of dying per encounter with a player.
Edit: the punishment is delivered through death, and a higher risk of death at sea makes it more dangerous
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
That's still less risk.
A red is already at risk with 'everyone' ready and willing to PvP and knowing they can get dropped loot on land. It's riskier on land because now the Greens will attack you too if they think they can beat you, but you get a greater penalty if they're wrong.
Yes but at sea you can assume everyone intends to pvp, which makes those players a bigger threat than green who decides to attack a corrupted. On land a corrupted risks more corruption or dying, on sea you don't get more corruption but you have a much higher likelihood of dying per encounter with a player.
That's what I meant about the 'tier of player'. But it's not really a bigger threat situation. That's an 'illusion' that is created by the very culture of the game. If the Open Sea isn't actually that good for exp gain, or isn't particularly lucrative outside of few events, there's not as much reason to be out there even for players who are willing to PvP.
Similarly, since the PvP itself could easily be mostly ship related, the sort of person who wants to have a proper GvG synergized fight isn't going to be out at sea.
I'm kind of saying the same thing you are, but... more like this:
"You're safer on land because the less confident players will be there, because they'll avoid the seas due to the confident players being out there."
It would theoretically shift the Risk vs Reward of the ocean, but that's only because people already react by stratifying themselves. Now that's a part I don't agree with, but that part has less to do with the 'No Corruption' and way more to do with the 'profits available at Sea', so there's no way to comment on it.
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
That's still less risk.
A red is already at risk with 'everyone' ready and willing to PvP and knowing they can get dropped loot on land. It's riskier on land because now the Greens will attack you too if they think they can beat you, but you get a greater penalty if they're wrong.
Yes but at sea you can assume everyone intends to pvp, which makes those players a bigger threat than green who decides to attack a corrupted. On land a corrupted risks more corruption or dying, on sea you don't get more corruption but you have a much higher likelihood of dying per encounter with a player.
Edit: the punishment is delivered through death, and a higher risk of death at sea makes it more dangerous
Actually my bad, I think I have a better way to explain this.
At sea, you don't actually have a reason to assume that everyone is out there to PvP if the PvE content out there is good. They enter the sea, they get flagged. The thing you're saying here is:
"You assume that anyone at sea thinks they are ABLE to PvP well enough to go." Which leads directly to stratification. If you've lost like 6 ship battles and think you will keep losing, the response from many would be 'stop going'. It's a filter, but it moreso 'seems' like a risk reduction, it's a 'trick of the mind', your actual risk isn't different. If anything it's lower because the population out there is lower.
I see this as similar to Tournaments for competitive games, but not quite. Sure, if you go to a Tournament you expect to face more strong opponents, but that's because the 'weaker ones' think it's pointless to go. In certain circles though, this leads to 'canceling the tournament due to lack of participants'. The number of strong opponents didn't explicitly change, the number of weaker ones did.
Idk if this makes sense, but figured I'd say it anyway.
Right, so…
It’s not more risk and a boon for Corrupted.
Potentially. Needs to be clarified if it is part of the design or not. That would definitely make bounties more fun
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
That's still less risk.
A red is already at risk with 'everyone' ready and willing to PvP and knowing they can get dropped loot on land. It's riskier on land because now the Greens will attack you too if they think they can beat you, but you get a greater penalty if they're wrong.
Yes but at sea you can assume everyone intends to pvp, which makes those players a bigger threat than green who decides to attack a corrupted. On land a corrupted risks more corruption or dying, on sea you don't get more corruption but you have a much higher likelihood of dying per encounter with a player.
Edit: the punishment is delivered through death, and a higher risk of death at sea makes it more dangerous
Actually my bad, I think I have a better way to explain this.
At sea, you don't actually have a reason to assume that everyone is out there to PvP if the PvE content out there is good. They enter the sea, they get flagged. The thing you're saying here is:
"You assume that anyone at sea thinks they are ABLE to PvP well enough to go." Which leads directly to stratification. If you've lost like 6 ship battles and think you will keep losing, the response from many would be 'stop going'. It's a filter, but it moreso 'seems' like a risk reduction, it's a 'trick of the mind', your actual risk isn't different. If anything it's lower because the population out there is lower.
I see this as similar to Tournaments for competitive games, but not quite. Sure, if you go to a Tournament you expect to face more strong opponents, but that's because the 'weaker ones' think it's pointless to go. In certain circles though, this leads to 'canceling the tournament due to lack of participants'. The number of strong opponents didn't explicitly change, the number of weaker ones did.
Idk if this makes sense, but figured I'd say it anyway.
I think I get what you're saying. To which I say that it will then be entirely dependent on the servers population of pvpers as to how dangerous the sea will be.
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PlasticLemonsMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I know one thing for sure, this will definitely be fun to test. I can see both sides of the argument (corruption or no corruption in open seas).
I'd think having the same flagging system with corruption in play makes the most sense because why break the flow of the whole rest of the game just for naval content? Even without flagging, at least keep the corruption maybe at a 50% reduced rate, but I don't understand the reasoning of removing that from sea content.
With no flagging and no corruption would also make sense, though, if ship skills are such that they kind of replace the bounty hunter system on land. Maybe some ships have good scouting abilities and you can avoid conflicts easier i.e.
I could see it going either way. I'd lean towards having consistency across the world but I will happily test this in the future.
From my understanding, a Kraken raid boss would still fall under the territorial waters of a Node's zone of influence, as the appearance of raids and the like are related to a node's progress. Also the XP earned through that kind of PvE goes towards the node's progression.
So ultimately, the international waters sections of the seas and oceans, might not even have Raids and dungeons. Thus rendering the open PvP more valid.
one of 3 things wil be what dictates ocean i think
1 - It all there day one (which is probaly not the case)
2 - Nodes will influence the ocean but wont realy be displayed on the map as territory so a node development might influence the kraken spawn off in the ocean outside of its visable node range
3 - ocean will be tied into all node developments pretty much all nodes have a value (Some node might have higher or lower value based on location port nodes could be say +3 base and inland +1 base for example and then levels muiltiply these base values too and the ocean is at this state based on total points from all nodes so kraken might spawn when total world nodes = 500 point for example
From my understanding, a Kraken raid boss would still fall under the territorial waters of a Node's zone of influence, as the appearance of raids and the like are related to a node's progress. Also the XP earned through that kind of PvE goes towards the node's progression.
So ultimately, the international waters sections of the seas and oceans, might not even have Raids and dungeons. Thus rendering the open PvP more valid.
one of 3 things wil be what dictates ocean i think
1 - It all there day one (which is probaly not the case)
2 - Nodes will influence the ocean but wont realy be displayed on the map as territory so a node development might influence the kraken spawn off in the ocean outside of its visable node range
3 - ocean will be tied into all node developments pretty much all nodes have a value (Some node might have higher or lower value based on location port nodes could be say +3 base and inland +1 base for example and then levels muiltiply these base values too and the ocean is at this state based on total points from all nodes so kraken might spawn when total world nodes = 500 point for example
I dont see how Nodes will influence beyond a limited point of coastal waters. Otherwise nobody would bother with inland nodes if coastal nodes have triple or more territory with water. I am thinking coastal nodes will just be the coastal waters, and open ocean will have nothing to do with node influence.
From my understanding, a Kraken raid boss would still fall under the territorial waters of a Node's zone of influence, as the appearance of raids and the like are related to a node's progress. Also the XP earned through that kind of PvE goes towards the node's progression.
So ultimately, the international waters sections of the seas and oceans, might not even have Raids and dungeons. Thus rendering the open PvP more valid.
one of 3 things wil be what dictates ocean i think
1 - It all there day one (which is probaly not the case)
2 - Nodes will influence the ocean but wont realy be displayed on the map as territory so a node development might influence the kraken spawn off in the ocean outside of its visable node range
3 - ocean will be tied into all node developments pretty much all nodes have a value (Some node might have higher or lower value based on location port nodes could be say +3 base and inland +1 base for example and then levels muiltiply these base values too and the ocean is at this state based on total points from all nodes so kraken might spawn when total world nodes = 500 point for example
This is similar to my expectation.
What I think will end up being the case is that ocean content will be dictated by what ever the highest level costal node is.
If there is a costal metropolis, then all ocean content is there. If the highest is a city, then raid content may disappear, but the rest will be there.
I dont really see them moving naval content around the map too much - good encounters just take up too much space (I dont see them being able to find a naval raid encounter between the continents, tbh).
Slightly different take: I play primarily PvE in MMOs, largely because I'm just really bad at PvP lol
That being said though, PvP that is tied to the story fascinates me. I played on PvP servers in WoW because (at least back in the day) a core part of the story was the conflict between Alliance and Horde. I feel the same way about PvP in this world. Given the story and the lore, a fair amount of lawlessness is probably expected in Verra. I love the idea of people getting to play their characters as bandits and pirates, not only because those are additional, fun ways for people to play, but because it also adds to the world immersion for players like me too. If I understand correctly, the game was originally inspired by a D&D (or similar) campaign, and viewing it as such, those are all things I would expect to have to contend with.
As to open seas not having the corruption system...I actually feel like that's lore-appropriate as well. If you think about historical pirates IRL, living on a ship for extended periods would be challenging due to supplies, weather, etc., but there would still be those who chose that life because of the freedom and the fact that being out on the vast expanse of the ocean would make it harder for them to be caught by guards, bounty hunters, and so forth. That is kinda what this change feels like for me. You're out in the "international waters" so to speak, and I think that being outside of the reach of the "law" (aka - the Corruption system) actually plays well into that.
Not trying to argue with anyone, not trying to correct anything that's been stated prior. Just throwing in a vote that some of us on the PvE side like this change as well.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited September 2022
What's the lore for Death Penalties being half-normal out there??
Can we get Steven to leek the Goddess of the Open Seas?
I generally disagree with no corruption at sea. I kinda? see the point though, it's a "lawless" area. What happens at sea stays at sea to you sailors out there. They labelled the sea a Battle ground. So it's open pvp area, I can't argue with that. But was it needed? You can already kill whoever you want whenever you want... The corruption system already handled the risk vs reward. So it's a solution to problem that doesn't exist.
I generally disagree with no corruption at sea. I kinda? see the point though, it's a "lawless" area. What happens at sea stays at sea to you sailors out there. They labelled the sea a Battle ground. So it's open pvp area, I can't argue with that. But was it needed? You can already kill whoever you want whenever you want... The corruption system already handled the risk vs reward. So it's a solution to problem that doesn't exist.
I definitely feel like the real problem I have here is that the other half of this equation is missing, for me.
If the Open Seas are not really that rewarding generally, just 'gives naval combat, allows for a few very niche but not terribly important forms of gathering', I don't care what they do.
If the Open Seas are where the Kraken spawns and the Kraken drops among the best gear in the game, I have a big problem immediately.
Making Decision A that goes against your system and then making Decision B to bring A back in line with your system is a valuable tool if the lore needs it. But lore ruining gameplay (if it were to do so) quickly leads to ruining game.
I think I just want to hear the other half of it. I don't believe it's technical reasoning, and I don't believe that 'transporting goods at sea' needed it either, and I actually especially DO NOT like the fact that players can cross the ocean safely without boats using ferries and flying and teleportation and whatever. Red flag again.
It feels like poking holes in solid systems to support an unnecessary one, so I would like answers.
If anything, autoflagging is less risk.... because you know everyone is an enemy. Where not auto flagging allows for easier betrayal and suprise attacks....
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If the Open Seas are where the Kraken spawns and the Kraken drops among the best gear in the game, I have a big problem immediately.
Even without direct pvp conflict, all open world content is contestable. Only one group gets to kill a boss and get it's rewards at a time.
If i kill the kraken, you can't kill the kraken and get it's rewards.
I'm sorry i even mentioned the potential corruption design issues because that is far from the main reason. This content was already pvp content since one group gets the rewards and by taking the rewards, you are denying it from others. Even if the contest is a dps race, that is still players competing against each other.
If the Open Seas are where the Kraken spawns and the Kraken drops among the best gear in the game, I have a big problem immediately.
Even without direct pvp conflict, all open world content is contestable. Only one group gets to kill a boss and get it's rewards at a time.
If i kill the kraken, you can't kill the kraken and get it's rewards.
I'm sorry i even mentioned the potential corruption design issues because that is far from the main reason. This content was already pvp content since one group gets the rewards and by taking the rewards, you are denying it from others. Even if the contest is a dps race, that is still players competing against each other.
Please clarify if you perceive it would therefore be acceptable for all open world boss monsters to be Corruption-Free zones.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If the Open Seas are where the Kraken spawns and the Kraken drops among the best gear in the game, I have a big problem immediately.
Even without direct pvp conflict, all open world content is contestable. Only one group gets to kill a boss and get it's rewards at a time.
If i kill the kraken, you can't kill the kraken and get it's rewards.
I'm sorry i even mentioned the potential corruption design issues because that is far from the main reason. This content was already pvp content since one group gets the rewards and by taking the rewards, you are denying it from others. Even if the contest is a dps race, that is still players competing against each other.
Please clarify if you perceive it would therefore be acceptable for all open world boss monsters to be Corruption-Free zones.
Currently don't have strong opinions on it but yes, i'd find it acceptable.
The biggest reasons im against the change, is because:
1. It is pointless. Anyone can attack you anytime anyways.
2. Runescape wilds as an example. People will just set on the sidelines, just outside of "open water" and then swarm whoever actually goes in. Without the line, people come and go and are opportunistic. With the line, people just set there and wait. Like its a "feature"
I need the reasons for the change to know more about having a strong opinion either way tho.
I have no idea why this would even be decided without any practical testing before hand, that shows the curruption system itself isnt appropriate for the type of game play they are aiming for in international waters...
I have no idea why this would even be decided without any practical testing before hand, that shows the curruption system itself isnt appropriate for the type of game play they are aiming for in international waters...
I have no idea why this would even be decided without any practical testing before hand, that shows the curruption system itself isnt appropriate for the type of game play they are aiming for in international waters...
Non of that says why the curruption system wouldnt be fitting for that situation...? If someone attacks, and the opposite party retaliates, then its the exact situation that would occur from auto flagging. Where is the need for the change in the system? What events show that merchants will just not fight back currupting their attackers, and giving up their attempted trade goods?
2. Runescape wilds as an example. People will just set on the sidelines, just outside of "open water" and then swarm whoever actually goes in. Without the line, people come and go and are opportunistic. With the line, people just set there and wait. Like its a "feature"
I have no idea why this would even be decided without any practical testing before hand, that shows the curruption system itself isnt appropriate for the type of game play they are aiming for in international waters...
Non of that says why the curruption system wouldnt be fitting for that situation...? If someone attacks, and the opposite party retaliates, then its the exact situation that would occur from auto flagging. Where is the need for the change in the system? What events show that merchants will just not fight back currupting their attackers, and giving up their attempted trade goods?
Meant to illustrate that the 'feeling' of it is a possible goal, but more importantly that at full distance, an approaching ship would not need to 'be able to tell if a potential target was Purple or Green'.
It increases risk for a ship sighted at long range because the attacker does not need to 'worry' about 'going all the way over there' and wasting resources only to find 'just a few explorers out on a lark/pleasure cruise'.
The gameplay style of pirates and various cutthroats can differ in terms of long-term strategic play when one can simply 'assume any ship or player one sights is at least combatant'.
2. Runescape wilds as an example. People will just set on the sidelines, just outside of "open water" and then swarm whoever actually goes in. Without the line, people come and go and are opportunistic. With the line, people just set there and wait. Like its a "feature"
That's an awfully massive sideline to cover.
Is it? Whats the veiw distance at sea? How far away can i see another ship. I would expect rather far, so i can be prepaired for being attacked, as even without auto flagging, i can be attacked at any time....
The biggest reasons im against the change, is because:
1. It is pointless. Anyone can attack you anytime anyways.
2. Runescape wilds as an example. People will just set on the sidelines, just outside of "open water" and then swarm whoever actually goes in. Without the line, people come and go and are opportunistic. With the line, people just set there and wait. Like its a "feature"
I need the reasons for the change to know more about having a strong opinion either way tho.
I have no idea why this would even be decided without any practical testing before hand, that shows the curruption system itself isnt appropriate for the type of game play they are aiming for in international waters...
There is a big difference between being punished to disincentivize pvp and actual open fights to incentivize it. There is nothing pointless about it unless you don't understand having different layers of pvp style content is good between the rules on land and ocean.
It isn't about trade that works the same as it always has with a open pvp area, its about the encounters on the ocean besides trade.
Comments
Well, we know that. If unclear, I absolutely agree with you on that.
I just think, after seeing much more ArcheAge content, that this is explicitly the goal. I don't feel that Corruption was ever supposed to be a real risk or punishment, just 'a different gameplay style'. We already got people forming theoretical future 'perma-red guilds'.
But ArcheAge is technically 'supposed to feel like a high seas pirate game' sometimes. If you live in coastal nodes, expect Pirate attacks. Particularly because stealing someone's Materials and then escaping with your Pirate Crew by ship adds a massive amount to the escape chances, while creating a 'natural gameplay opportunity' for everyone.
You're not getting 'griefed' by Pirates probably, they're taking your stuff and then hauling off, probably through epic chases, etc. But ArcheAge's open sea content is explicitly for a different 'tier' of player, so using it to support "Pirates" is pretty useful.
And…if Corruption is really just supposed to be a different form of PvP… I definitely would not be playing Ashes.
And, yeah, again…
I specifically chose not to play ArcheAge due to the naval combat.
If you think a red isn't at risk with everyone ready and willing to pvp and knowing they can get dropped loot from red players....You are high on copium.
It depends on how one interprets Risk vs Reward as a concept, and you know how that goes.
"Encountering more powerful opponents is a risk, for which you may gain the reward of whatever you can gather if you outwit/outrun/outfight/don't encounter them."
You're aware of it probably even more than I was. If I'd known the precise mechanics of ArcheAge before, I wouldn't have assumed that 'Risk' and 'Reward' meant the same thing to Steven as they do to me, for example. I don't think it's outside of the scope. There's a consistent thread of 'not considering the effects of (or on) a single Actor to be relevant' in that game, and similarly if you read Steven's statements about the game through that lens, they all make more sense, a lot of 'contradictions' disappear.
I said that earlier that they would be at a huge risk because of that
That's still less risk.
A red is already at risk with 'everyone' ready and willing to PvP and knowing they can get dropped loot on land. It's riskier on land because now the Greens will attack you too if they think they can beat you, but you get a greater penalty if they're wrong.
Honestly sorry wasn't really directed at you, just people thing that red isn't a punishment with the draw backs including more corruption gain per skill and stat reduction, loot drops even if you only have 1 corruption.
Yes but at sea you can assume everyone intends to pvp, which makes those players a bigger threat than green who decides to attack a corrupted. On land a corrupted risks more corruption or dying, on sea you don't get more corruption but you have a much higher likelihood of dying per encounter with a player.
Edit: the punishment is delivered through death, and a higher risk of death at sea makes it more dangerous
That's what I meant about the 'tier of player'. But it's not really a bigger threat situation. That's an 'illusion' that is created by the very culture of the game. If the Open Sea isn't actually that good for exp gain, or isn't particularly lucrative outside of few events, there's not as much reason to be out there even for players who are willing to PvP.
Similarly, since the PvP itself could easily be mostly ship related, the sort of person who wants to have a proper GvG synergized fight isn't going to be out at sea.
I'm kind of saying the same thing you are, but... more like this:
"You're safer on land because the less confident players will be there, because they'll avoid the seas due to the confident players being out there."
It would theoretically shift the Risk vs Reward of the ocean, but that's only because people already react by stratifying themselves. Now that's a part I don't agree with, but that part has less to do with the 'No Corruption' and way more to do with the 'profits available at Sea', so there's no way to comment on it.
Actually my bad, I think I have a better way to explain this.
At sea, you don't actually have a reason to assume that everyone is out there to PvP if the PvE content out there is good. They enter the sea, they get flagged. The thing you're saying here is:
"You assume that anyone at sea thinks they are ABLE to PvP well enough to go." Which leads directly to stratification. If you've lost like 6 ship battles and think you will keep losing, the response from many would be 'stop going'. It's a filter, but it moreso 'seems' like a risk reduction, it's a 'trick of the mind', your actual risk isn't different. If anything it's lower because the population out there is lower.
I see this as similar to Tournaments for competitive games, but not quite. Sure, if you go to a Tournament you expect to face more strong opponents, but that's because the 'weaker ones' think it's pointless to go. In certain circles though, this leads to 'canceling the tournament due to lack of participants'. The number of strong opponents didn't explicitly change, the number of weaker ones did.
Idk if this makes sense, but figured I'd say it anyway.
I think I get what you're saying. To which I say that it will then be entirely dependent on the servers population of pvpers as to how dangerous the sea will be.
I'd think having the same flagging system with corruption in play makes the most sense because why break the flow of the whole rest of the game just for naval content? Even without flagging, at least keep the corruption maybe at a 50% reduced rate, but I don't understand the reasoning of removing that from sea content.
With no flagging and no corruption would also make sense, though, if ship skills are such that they kind of replace the bounty hunter system on land. Maybe some ships have good scouting abilities and you can avoid conflicts easier i.e.
I could see it going either way. I'd lean towards having consistency across the world but I will happily test this in the future.
one of 3 things wil be what dictates ocean i think
1 - It all there day one (which is probaly not the case)
2 - Nodes will influence the ocean but wont realy be displayed on the map as territory so a node development might influence the kraken spawn off in the ocean outside of its visable node range
3 - ocean will be tied into all node developments pretty much all nodes have a value (Some node might have higher or lower value based on location port nodes could be say +3 base and inland +1 base for example and then levels muiltiply these base values too and the ocean is at this state based on total points from all nodes so kraken might spawn when total world nodes = 500 point for example
I dont see how Nodes will influence beyond a limited point of coastal waters. Otherwise nobody would bother with inland nodes if coastal nodes have triple or more territory with water. I am thinking coastal nodes will just be the coastal waters, and open ocean will have nothing to do with node influence.
This is similar to my expectation.
What I think will end up being the case is that ocean content will be dictated by what ever the highest level costal node is.
If there is a costal metropolis, then all ocean content is there. If the highest is a city, then raid content may disappear, but the rest will be there.
I dont really see them moving naval content around the map too much - good encounters just take up too much space (I dont see them being able to find a naval raid encounter between the continents, tbh).
That being said though, PvP that is tied to the story fascinates me. I played on PvP servers in WoW because (at least back in the day) a core part of the story was the conflict between Alliance and Horde. I feel the same way about PvP in this world. Given the story and the lore, a fair amount of lawlessness is probably expected in Verra. I love the idea of people getting to play their characters as bandits and pirates, not only because those are additional, fun ways for people to play, but because it also adds to the world immersion for players like me too. If I understand correctly, the game was originally inspired by a D&D (or similar) campaign, and viewing it as such, those are all things I would expect to have to contend with.
As to open seas not having the corruption system...I actually feel like that's lore-appropriate as well. If you think about historical pirates IRL, living on a ship for extended periods would be challenging due to supplies, weather, etc., but there would still be those who chose that life because of the freedom and the fact that being out on the vast expanse of the ocean would make it harder for them to be caught by guards, bounty hunters, and so forth. That is kinda what this change feels like for me. You're out in the "international waters" so to speak, and I think that being outside of the reach of the "law" (aka - the Corruption system) actually plays well into that.
Not trying to argue with anyone, not trying to correct anything that's been stated prior. Just throwing in a vote that some of us on the PvE side like this change as well.
Can we get Steven to leek the Goddess of the Open Seas?
I definitely feel like the real problem I have here is that the other half of this equation is missing, for me.
If the Open Seas are not really that rewarding generally, just 'gives naval combat, allows for a few very niche but not terribly important forms of gathering', I don't care what they do.
If the Open Seas are where the Kraken spawns and the Kraken drops among the best gear in the game, I have a big problem immediately.
Making Decision A that goes against your system and then making Decision B to bring A back in line with your system is a valuable tool if the lore needs it. But lore ruining gameplay (if it were to do so) quickly leads to ruining game.
I think I just want to hear the other half of it. I don't believe it's technical reasoning, and I don't believe that 'transporting goods at sea' needed it either, and I actually especially DO NOT like the fact that players can cross the ocean safely without boats using ferries and flying and teleportation and whatever. Red flag again.
It feels like poking holes in solid systems to support an unnecessary one, so I would like answers.
Even without direct pvp conflict, all open world content is contestable. Only one group gets to kill a boss and get it's rewards at a time.
If i kill the kraken, you can't kill the kraken and get it's rewards.
I'm sorry i even mentioned the potential corruption design issues because that is far from the main reason. This content was already pvp content since one group gets the rewards and by taking the rewards, you are denying it from others. Even if the contest is a dps race, that is still players competing against each other.
Please clarify if you perceive it would therefore be acceptable for all open world boss monsters to be Corruption-Free zones.
Currently don't have strong opinions on it but yes, i'd find it acceptable.
1. It is pointless. Anyone can attack you anytime anyways.
2. Runescape wilds as an example. People will just set on the sidelines, just outside of "open water" and then swarm whoever actually goes in. Without the line, people come and go and are opportunistic. With the line, people just set there and wait. Like its a "feature"
I need the reasons for the change to know more about having a strong opinion either way tho.
I have no idea why this would even be decided without any practical testing before hand, that shows the curruption system itself isnt appropriate for the type of game play they are aiming for in international waters...
Maybe story time?
Non of that says why the curruption system wouldnt be fitting for that situation...? If someone attacks, and the opposite party retaliates, then its the exact situation that would occur from auto flagging. Where is the need for the change in the system? What events show that merchants will just not fight back currupting their attackers, and giving up their attempted trade goods?
That's an awfully massive sideline to cover.
Meant to illustrate that the 'feeling' of it is a possible goal, but more importantly that at full distance, an approaching ship would not need to 'be able to tell if a potential target was Purple or Green'.
It increases risk for a ship sighted at long range because the attacker does not need to 'worry' about 'going all the way over there' and wasting resources only to find 'just a few explorers out on a lark/pleasure cruise'.
The gameplay style of pirates and various cutthroats can differ in terms of long-term strategic play when one can simply 'assume any ship or player one sights is at least combatant'.
Is it? Whats the veiw distance at sea? How far away can i see another ship. I would expect rather far, so i can be prepaired for being attacked, as even without auto flagging, i can be attacked at any time....
There is a big difference between being punished to disincentivize pvp and actual open fights to incentivize it. There is nothing pointless about it unless you don't understand having different layers of pvp style content is good between the rules on land and ocean.
It isn't about trade that works the same as it always has with a open pvp area, its about the encounters on the ocean besides trade.