Why Have Two Different PvP Systems for Land and Sea?

Before I begin, I just want to say, I don’t have a problem with no holds barred PvP on the open ocean. I enjoy games that have that quite a bit. I guess my only question is: Why the change? If the Corruption System was developed to disincentivize killing of low level players and people who are just gathering for professions on land, why not use that same system on the sea? Is there a particular reason this change was made? Again, I don’t have a problem with it, I’m just curious.

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Dygz

Okilian wrote: »

Because someone else can come in and take your resources

It's only half the normal resources. So... that is reduced risk.

Warth

Dygz wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Because someone else can come in and take your resources

It's only half the normal resources. So... that is reduced risk.

We don't even know whether you get the "resources" in your inventory. Potentially they will go the AA route where you need to have ship storage to put the treasures and fish in, which you will lose upon destruction

Strevi

Okilian wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Steven said that the Open Seas have unique NPCs and unique treasure-finding opportunities and... with greater rewards comes greater risk.

But, for PvPers, it's reduced risk:
It's half the normal death penalties, inlcuding half normal dropped mats/resources.
And no risk of gaining Corruption.
Increased chance of PvP combat is a boon for PvPers; not a bane, so...
It's not really a risk v reward thing.

It's really just: with greater rewards comes more PvP combat.

I disagree 100%. Greater rewards should entail more danger in obtaining these rewards. The danger is other players competing and trying to take those rewards. Truely organic competition.

How is competition dangerous?

Because someone else can come in and take your resources

If chances are high to loose resources then I see danger. But then competition is not a word I would use.
More of game of chance. Danger = risk. Competition is skill related.

Mag7spy

Strevi wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Steven said that the Open Seas have unique NPCs and unique treasure-finding opportunities and... with greater rewards comes greater risk.

But, for PvPers, it's reduced risk:
It's half the normal death penalties, inlcuding half normal dropped mats/resources.
And no risk of gaining Corruption.
Increased chance of PvP combat is a boon for PvPers; not a bane, so...
It's not really a risk v reward thing.

It's really just: with greater rewards comes more PvP combat.

I disagree 100%. Greater rewards should entail more danger in obtaining these rewards. The danger is other players competing and trying to take those rewards. Truely organic competition.

How is competition dangerous?

Because someone else can come in and take your resources

If chances are high to loose resources then I see danger. But then competition is not a word I would use.
More of game of chance. Danger = risk. Competition is skill related.

More players to willing to attack you = more danger.

Skill has nothing to do with that, that is another element.

Strevi

Mag7spy wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Steven said that the Open Seas have unique NPCs and unique treasure-finding opportunities and... with greater rewards comes greater risk.

But, for PvPers, it's reduced risk:
It's half the normal death penalties, inlcuding half normal dropped mats/resources.
And no risk of gaining Corruption.
Increased chance of PvP combat is a boon for PvPers; not a bane, so...
It's not really a risk v reward thing.

It's really just: with greater rewards comes more PvP combat.

I disagree 100%. Greater rewards should entail more danger in obtaining these rewards. The danger is other players competing and trying to take those rewards. Truely organic competition.

How is competition dangerous?

Because someone else can come in and take your resources

If chances are high to loose resources then I see danger. But then competition is not a word I would use.
More of game of chance. Danger = risk. Competition is skill related.

More players to willing to attack you = more danger.

Skill has nothing to do with that, that is another element.

If a place is visited often by many players, one has to join the bigger/stronger team. Be friend with the guy with legendary armor. Especially if his weapon has your name on it.

akabear

Perhaps turn one island into full pvp with high rewards too! for a little bit of land based enhanced conflict..

Okilian

Strevi wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

Okilian wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Steven said that the Open Seas have unique NPCs and unique treasure-finding opportunities and... with greater rewards comes greater risk.

But, for PvPers, it's reduced risk:
It's half the normal death penalties, inlcuding half normal dropped mats/resources.
And no risk of gaining Corruption.
Increased chance of PvP combat is a boon for PvPers; not a bane, so...
It's not really a risk v reward thing.

It's really just: with greater rewards comes more PvP combat.

I disagree 100%. Greater rewards should entail more danger in obtaining these rewards. The danger is other players competing and trying to take those rewards. Truely organic competition.

How is competition dangerous?

Because someone else can come in and take your resources

If chances are high to loose resources then I see danger. But then competition is not a word I would use.
More of game of chance. Danger = risk. Competition is skill related.

I'd agree with this... skill can come in my forms. Perhaps your a popular guy and are able to form groups easily, that could be considered a skill.

Okilian

akabear wrote: »

Perhaps turn one island into full pvp with high rewards too! for a little bit of land based enhanced conflict..

Well, we already have to caravan system and corruption as well as guild wars etc... already a lot IMO.

Dygz

Warth wrote: »

We don't even know whether you get the "resources" in your inventory. Potentially they will go the AA route where you need to have ship storage to put the treasures and fish in, which you will lose upon destruction

So...you drop no personal inventory resources as part of the death penalties for being flagged Combatant? That's also less risk.

And then Naval Caravans will still be a portion of resources dropped when the ship is destroyed? Or full loot?

Dygz

akabear wrote: »

Perhaps turn one island into full pvp with high rewards too! for a little bit of land based enhanced conflict..

We're expecting that island beneath Draakathbohr to be that. Yes.

FuryBladeborne

Iandriel wrote: »

Before I begin, I just want to say, I don’t have a problem with no holds barred PvP on the open ocean. I enjoy games that have that quite a bit. I guess my only question is: Why the change? If the Corruption System was developed to disincentivize killing of low level players and people who are just gathering for professions on land, why not use that same system on the sea? Is there a particular reason this change was made? Again, I don’t have a problem with it, I’m just curious.

Mabey the issue is that corruption can't spread into the ocean. We don't know how it works, but we know that killing non combatants causes the player to turn into a corrupted monster. The players turn into the same as the corrupted monsters that are attacking civilization on behalf of the world. Perhaps that corruption only takes effect on land and were going to get an in game explanation as we play.

However, after a few minutes of thinking I can't come up with a plausible way that corruption only spreads on land. Particularly if I count that only non combatants cause it.

Strevi

"Why Have Two Different PvP Systems for Land and Sea?"

I see in wiki that there will be a land management system.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Resources
Ideas like land management- and as you draw resources from your surrounding area- what type of effect does that have on the land; and then also how effectively can you draw those resources without having such a deleterious effect on the land, which might impact future resource gathering for some period of time: And it makes relevant the movement of these players who are collecting these goods from the environment, that they actually cannot always just do so in one particular area, as the land management begins to degrade. So it actually encourages movement across the world to discover new areas that might not be as perturbed as the ones you're coming from. It's a very interesting idea. It's something that we're going to be prototyping in Alpha 2 and getting feedback on and testing

How do you prevent players to fish too much?
And bots to over harvest valuable resources until depletion?
Maybe some are not even bots but need to produce gold to sell on 3rd party sites...

I think land resources will be scarce because greedy players, and those will complain that other players do not allow them to fish as much as they want in the Sea.

Dygz

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

However, after a few minutes of thinking I can't come up with a plausible way that corruption only spreads on land. Particularly if I count that only non combatants cause it.

Or why death penalties are half-normal in the Open Seas.
Maybe it's the Goddess of Pirates and Chaos.

Warth

Dygz wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

We don't even know whether you get the "resources" in your inventory. Potentially they will go the AA route where you need to have ship storage to put the treasures and fish in, which you will lose upon destruction

So...you drop no personal inventory resources as part of the death penalties for being flagged Combatant? That's also less risk.

And then Naval Caravans will still be a portion of resources dropped when the ship is destroyed? Or full loot?

You didn't really gain any inventory resource in AA while on the ocean. Mostly trade packs which were physically stored on the ship and lost completely upon destruction of the ship.

We don't know how it will be here is all i'm saying. Hopefully intrepid will give some insights soon

Liniker

Because Yes. Amazing change, High risk for High rewards at the sea, I'm really hyped to experience some carebear-free Open PvP in the oceans of Verra

Dygz

Warth wrote: »

You didn't really gain any inventory resource in AA while on the ocean. Mostly trade packs which were physically stored on the ship and lost completely upon destruction of the ship.

We don't know how it will be here is all i'm saying. Hopefully intrepid will give some insights soon

I was talking about the resources already in your inventory.
Though, also, Steven said that there are unique treasure-finding opportunities in the Open Seas - and unique NPCs. And with greater rewards comes "greater risk".
So... seems like there will be stuff that drops.
There are Naval Caravans. When those are destroyed, resource certificates will drop.

It's not high risk in the Open Seas; it's reduced risk. It's just higher incidence of PvP combat.

Liniker

Dygz wrote: »

It's not high risk in the Open Seas; it's reduced risk. It's just higher incidence of PvP combat.

It is high risk. PvPers, same as PvErs - want to Win. No one likes dying it doesn't matter if it's pvp or pve just don't be stupid. more PvP = more chances of Dying, and dying is the RISK there are death penalties when you... die.... your nonsense is reaching astronomical levels and you should stop.

Dygz

It's not high risk. It's reduced risk. Higher incidence of PvP combat.
It's half normal death penalties in the Open Seas. That is reduced risk.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

It's not high risk. It's reduced risk. Higher incidence of PvP combat.
It's half normal death penalties in the Open Seas. That is reduced risk.

If you're risking dying much more often, then it is not less. Initially the penalty is smaller but if death is a much more regular occurrence at sea as opposed to a green getting ganked 1 or 2 times, the risk and punishment will be worse. Corruption limits the amount of times you can be griefed. At sea there are no limits to how many times players can kill you.

Dygz

Dying is not the risk - the death penalties are the risks.

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