While Waiting...

Anyone planning on playing Archeage Unchained's new Fresh Start on the 15th? ... now now I know what you're going to say, and yes they have screwed that game up at every corner. That being said Since Kakoa took it back, even though their last Fresh start was a failure they've been diligent in banning botters and RMT and trying to clean up their image.

This is simply a passing the time game which heavily inspired Ashes of creation, along with Lineage 2. So if you wanna get your fishing on and have something to do for a few months while we wait for Alpha 2 check it out.

Again this is not a LONG term solution, just passing time, AoC is my true love, but she keeps shutting the door on me! So I will bother the nieghbor for a bit

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TheHiddenDaggerInn

Savic wrote: »

my memory of archeage that stuck with why i quit was the only difference between me and a different person was literally just the weapon equipped and i had what was the best weapon possible before that one the person had and they were something like x2 stronger with everything and so i felt like there was no point in person skill it was just a gear game there was no way your own skill could make up the difference

that's a big reason they're doing the accelerated fresh start servers, because people would get behind then left in the dust. now with fresh start every 3 months and all of them transfering to hopefully 1 good server keeping it fresh, the gear disparity shouldn't be nearly as great as it is now.

This is something I hope Steven doesn't take from this game, not of fan of the gear system

TheDarkSorcerer

Liniker wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I never played the game. I just looked up some recent gameplay footage on YouTube. And it's going to be hard no for me. Absolutely horrible sound design and visual effects. I also cannot stand eastern game design. But that's just me.

it's a 10 year old game made on a 20 year old engine, what did you expect

GW2 does a good job on both visual and sound for an older game

And that's even older.

Noaani

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I never played the game. I just looked up some recent gameplay footage on YouTube. And it's going to be hard no for me. Absolutely horrible sound design and visual effects. I also cannot stand eastern game design. But that's just me.

it's a 10 year old game made on a 20 year old engine, what did you expect

GW2 does a good job on both visual and sound for an older game And that's even older.

I personally prefer Archeages visuals and sounds over GW2 - but that may well be because I have spent more time (and had a significantly greater amount of fun) in Archeage than I ever had in GW2.

TheHiddenDaggerInn

Noaani wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I never played the game. I just looked up some recent gameplay footage on YouTube. And it's going to be hard no for me. Absolutely horrible sound design and visual effects. I also cannot stand eastern game design. But that's just me.

it's a 10 year old game made on a 20 year old engine, what did you expect

GW2 does a good job on both visual and sound for an older game And that's even older.

I personally prefer Archeages visuals and sounds over GW2 - but that may well be because I have spent more time (and had a significantly greater amount of fun) in Archeage than I ever had in GW2.

Ya I totally agree, I actually got into Archeage way later than most, back when it just started the Unchained version, I'm not going to lie, I never saw it before and I thought it was a new game. The you tube videos do it no justice as far as graphics at all.

Xenotor

No more Arch age for me.
They completly screwed both normal arch age and unchained.
Breaking promises left and right.

In stat i can highly recommend Foxhole.

Foxhole 1.0 will come out on 28.09 with a massive update.

Trailer from 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSYkt6fzrQ

Inferno update :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6c_NsuTZSs

Review by Stealthfox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw-KKPtAnX8

Rounds can go from a couple days for over a month.

Ludullu

Xenotor wrote: »

Foxhole 1.0 will come out on 28.09 with a massive update.

Oh shit! Might have to come back to it. Played a bit of it a year ago and loved it but fell off due to "reasons". Imo foxhole is one of the best "players do everything in the game" games out there. Intrepid should definitely look at it for any potential potholes of this kind of design direction.

TheHiddenDaggerInn

Xenotor wrote: »

No more Arch age for me.
They completly screwed both normal arch age and unchained.
Breaking promises left and right.

In stat i can highly recommend Foxhole.

Foxhole 1.0 will come out on 28.09 with a massive update.

Trailer from 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSYkt6fzrQ

Inferno update :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6c_NsuTZSs

Review by Stealthfox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw-KKPtAnX8

Rounds can go from a couple days for over a month.

While Foxhole looks like a cool game, it has no relevance to Ashes of Creation's development. That's the only reason I posted Archeage simply because it's mostly inspired from it, so people who haven't played AoC, or lineage 2 or Archeage might get some undertanding of some of the mechanics they might be seeing or where some of his vision came from. but I appreciate the post nonetheless.

grisu

Xenotor wrote: »

No more Arch age for me.
They completly screwed both normal arch age and unchained.
Breaking promises left and right.

Pretty much that. I tried unchained and it was just as much of a shitshow as Archage was. P2W, bot infestation and incompetence inside and outside of the game by the publisher/ developer. Being excited about that is beyond me.
Have some respect for yourself and use your time better, like staring at a blank wall.

TheHiddenDaggerInn

grisu wrote: »

Xenotor wrote: »

No more Arch age for me.
They completly screwed both normal arch age and unchained.
Breaking promises left and right.

Pretty much that. I tried unchained and it was just as much of a shitshow as Archage was. P2W, bot infestation and incompetence inside and outside of the game by the publisher/ developer. Being excited about that is beyond me.
Have some respect for yourself and use your time better, like staring at a blank wall.

I can appreciate you tried the game, and it wasn't for you. That being said coming in here and telling me to "have some respect for myself" because of something you haven't kept up with, don't like is just rude.

I could careless if you play, I get nothing out of this other than giving people a option for something to play, like the foxhole game above coming soon, or the new warcraft expansion.

So have some respect for yourself next time and try not to be a douche, as hard as that might be.

grisu

There is a big difference between "not for you" and getting lied to your face. Downplaying it to "you didn't keep up with it now" is just telling. They had all the opportunity to change from the experience they had with Archage and still delivered Unchained the way they did as well as all the "unforseeable mistakes" they happily made with it, but an "informed" person like you knows all about the history of Archeage and the several restart>s< since then.
Yet, despite that history you advocate for it. I'm sure the 10th time is the charm with a new publisher paint on it, because kakao games has such a good track record.
Archeworld is also right there for you to enjoy. kekw

I'm okay being labeled a douche by someone like that. You enjoy your game and keep being part of the problem.

Azherae

grisu wrote: »

There is a big difference between "not for you" and getting lied to your face. Downplaying it to "you didn't keep up with it now" is just telling. They had all the opportunity to change from the experience they had with Archage and still delivered Unchained the way they did as well as all the "unforseeable mistakes" they happily made with it, but an "informed" person like you knows all about the history of Archeage and the several restart>s< since then.
Yet, despite that history you advocate for it. I'm sure the 10th time is the charm with a new publisher paint on it, because kakao games has such a good track record.
Archeworld is also right there for you to enjoy. kekw

I'm okay being labeled a douche by someone like that. You enjoy your game and keep being part of the problem.

It can't really be THAT bad, can it?

I mean, everything I've seen online personally implies that it is, but they get enough people to play it still, somehow?

If you don't mind, any examples of 'unforeseeable mistakes'? (I'm assuming that was sarcasm, if not, ignore me)

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

I mean, everything I've seen online personally implies that it is, but they get enough people to play it still, somehow?

I think that's just the biggest indicator of AoC's potential success. If people are ready to suffer through a mess of a game that is AA - they'd probably love Ashes, if it manages to be all that it wants to be.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I mean, everything I've seen online personally implies that it is, but they get enough people to play it still, somehow?

I think that's just the biggest indicator of AoC's potential success. If people are ready to suffer through a mess of a game that is AA - they'd probably love Ashes, if it manages to be all that it wants to be.

There are many reasons why I consider that a bad thing, not a good thing, so I don't really understand the sentiment.

If a game manages to attract a lot of people who play bad games... That's a type of success, true, but...

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

There are many reasons why I consider that a bad thing, not a good thing, so I don't really understand the sentiment.

If a game manages to attract a lot of people who play bad games... That's a type of success, true, but...

Nah, I meant it more as a "AA's good parts are enough to keep some people playing even through the shitty parts". Ashes will have quite a lot of the same good parts (and even more), while probably not having the bad ones. Which means that it would attract and hold people even better than AA did/does.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

There are many reasons why I consider that a bad thing, not a good thing, so I don't really understand the sentiment.

If a game manages to attract a lot of people who play bad games... That's a type of success, true, but...

Nah, I meant it more as a "AA's good parts are enough to keep some people playing every through the shitty parts". Ashes will have quite a lot of the same good parts (and even more), while probably not having the bad ones. Which means that it would attract and hold people even better than AA did/does.

Ah, ok. I'll see if @grisu educates me a bit more about the bad parts.

JamesSunderland

For people whom never experienced Archeage and want to have a imperfect taste of one of the games which heavily inspires Ashes it is certainly a good opportunity.

But keep in mind, that the version of AA you're going to experience in it is worlds apart different from the version Steven Experienced and was inspired by.

For people like me who already experienced AA in it's glory days and understands how it is nothing but a hollow shell of its former self, playing in this fresh start would be for nothing but blind nostalgia.

Okeydoke

Archeage, simultaneously one of my most loved and hated mmos. That ship has sailed for me, never going back. But it could be good for people just looking to mess around and learn about one of AoC's main inspirations.

Like James said though, I don't even know how much of it is true to form anymore from it's original vision.

One of the videos that inspired me to buy the game back then, courtesy of Bikeman. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYy0gD_lD7E

grisu

Azherae wrote: »

It can't really be THAT bad, can it?

Would I rate it as bad as multibillion corporation built on sweatshops, child labour and exploitation? No of course not.
Define THAT bad in a gaming industry where unfounded hype building, false promises, real life gambling, "whales" as a normal integral term of a business model and so on are common place.

I honestly do not want to spend any energy on this, but also how can I say no to an honest question.
So, compromise, I will shorten and paraphrase just some quick things to paint a picture you can research in further detail and will ignore that I open myself up to nitpicky "aKTcHuAlLY"s based on a technicality.

In no particular order aside from contextual necessity.
1. Korean MMOs are build differently. Korean society is different, values differ, if you want to play mmo, you sign up with your social security number tied to the account you create.
2. This was not the first Korean MMO in existence/ ported to the west, we have seen the designs that come along with it, like labour systems, low anti cheat measurements since well, you hand over your identity when signing up and so on in Korea. One would imagine you understand that some changes are needed to address such differences. I'm sure they knew and just saw an opportunity instead like all the others before and since.
3. Archeage was heavily p2w /gold seller reliant which they promised to address with unchained.
4. Unchained will be a one-time purchase only, with just vanity items in the cash shop. Quoted extensively in interviews and hype building.
5. Do I need a point 5 to tell you that 3 and 4 didn't happen?
6. Introducing the Archpass influxing gold amongst other things for paid service.
7. Ignore 5, here comes - labour potions, landrush, no anti bot-ing practices, paid dlc of areas that can not be accessed otherwise, paid labour buffs, whatever the fucking the leaf or blessing was called, optional subscription blablabla.
8. Introductions of things past the launch date to mask their practices from initial reviews.
9. Labour system is your money maker, anything you do costs labour, so what do you do if you have limited labour even tho you pay for enhanced regeneration and refills? Heeeyyy here comes the 2nd/3rd/4th... paid account to have more labour every day. Such a shift from relying on scummy goldsources outside of your normal playtime to advance your gear kekw.

I could harper on and on about points of times where they "made a mistake" that just happened to enrich them real quick beyond the already mentioned. I mean, ArcheWORLD is a thing now. Just, kek-double-u all the way. What else do you need to know?
Kakao games and their practices of making mandatory, I mean "oPTiOnAl", purchases in a buy to play game to stay competitive? Paid costumes with buffs to conserve money in a game that purely relies on heavy rng fuelled by TONS of money to advance your gear? Check. How about enhance crafting? Check. You gonna love this one, making a hack and slash game where you kill HORDES of enemies quickly with MOUNTAINS of individual drops on the ground that you have to pick up manually, one by one, in a nice juicy animation when you are competing for farming grounds with everyone else constantly... oh wait buy 3 pets... that you can upgrade with more pets to do it for you. "oPtiOnaL" sub for more money saving benefits, selling above said costumes for gold in game.
I'm SURE none of it will see introductions/ re-emergence in this instalment of unchained.

Oh boy oh boy "It's not like that now, you haven't kept up with it" aha, sure they didn't use every dirty little trick in the book over the years and they surely stopped now relaunching the same thing for you to drop a subscription in. Who needs new content when you can just relaunch the same product anyway for the x-th time and make people pay for it again?
People gonna pay in new ways, it's totally different and good now. aha sure buddy

Imagine this being JUST the shortened version of parts of it. There is more sinister nuances to some of it as well as left out parts not touch on yet, but it's too much effort to contextualize it all and dig up all the dates and quotes and so on. You get the point.
I hope you understand that this is as far as my compromise is willing to go especially this late as I feel my contempt leaking through more and more and my sheer unwillingness to clean it up. Either way I won't debate this any further. I feel like I provided enough points to justify a simple:
"Hu, maybe there is something fishy about this game and the companies involved. Maybe I should look into it before I touch it."
@Azherae

Azherae

grisu wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

It can't really be THAT bad, can it?

Would I rate it as bad as multibillion corporation built on sweatshops, child labour and exploitation? No of course not.
Define THAT bad in a gaming industry where unfounded hype building, false promises, real life gambling, "whales" as a normal integral term of a business model and so on are common place.

I honestly do not want to spend any energy on this, but also how can I say no to an honest question.
So, compromise, I will shorten and paraphrase just some quick things to paint a picture you can research in further detail and will ignore that I open myself up to nitpicky "aKTcHuAlLY"s based on a technicality.

In no particular order aside from contextual necessity.
1. Korean MMOs are build differently. Korean society is different, values differ, if you want to play mmo, you sign up with your social security number tied to the account you create.
2. This was not the first Korean MMO in existence/ ported to the west, we have seen the designs that come along with it, like labour systems, low anti cheat measurements since well, you hand over your identity when signing up and so on in Korea. One would imagine you understand that some changes are needed to address such differences. I'm sure they knew and just saw an opportunity instead like all the others before and since.
3. Archeage was heavily p2w /gold seller reliant which they promised to address with unchained.
4. Unchained will be a one-time purchase only, with just vanity items in the cash shop. Quoted extensively in interviews and hype building.
5. Do I need a point 5 to tell you that 3 and 4 didn't happen?
6. Introducing the Archpass influxing gold amongst other things for paid service.
7. Ignore 5, here comes - labour potions, landrush, no anti bot-ing practices, paid dlc of areas that can not be accessed otherwise, paid labour buffs, whatever the fucking the leaf or blessing was called, optional subscription blablabla.
8. Introductions of things past the launch date to mask their practices from initial reviews.
9. Labour system is your money maker, anything you do costs labour, so what do you do if you have limited labour even tho you pay for enhanced regeneration and refills? Heeeyyy here comes the 2nd/3rd/4th... paid account to have more labour every day. Such a shift from relying on scummy goldsources outside of your normal playtime to advance your gear kekw.

I could harper on and on about points of times where they "made a mistake" that just happened to enrich them real quick beyond the already mentioned. I mean, ArcheWORLD is a thing now. Just, kek-double-u all the way. What else do you need to know?
Kakao games and their practices of making mandatory, I mean "oPTiOnAl", purchases in a buy to play game to stay competitive? Paid costumes with buffs to conserve money in a game that purely relies on heavy rng fuelled by TONS of money to advance your gear? Check. How about enhance crafting? Check. You gonna love this one, making a hack and slash game where you kill HORDES of enemies quickly with MOUNTAINS of individual drops on the ground that you have to pick up manually, one by one, in a nice juicy animation when you are competing for farming grounds with everyone else constantly... oh wait buy 3 pets... that you can upgrade with more pets to do it for you. "oPtiOnaL" sub for more money saving benefits, selling above said costumes for gold in game.
I'm SURE none of it will see introductions/ re-emergence in this instalment of unchained.

Oh boy oh boy "It's not like that now, you haven't kept up with it" aha, sure they didn't use every dirty little trick in the book over the years and they surely stopped now relaunching the same thing for you to drop a subscription in. Who needs new content when you can just relaunch the same product anyway for the x-th time and make people pay for it again?
People gonna pay in new ways, it's totally different and good now. aha sure buddy

Imagine this being JUST the shortened version of parts of it. There is more sinister nuances to some of it as well as left out parts not touch on yet, but it's too much effort to contextualize it all and dig up all the dates and quotes and so on. You get the point.
I hope you understand that this is as far as my compromise is willing to go especially this late as I feel my contempt leaking through more and more and my sheer unwillingness to clean it up. Either way I won't debate this any further. I feel like I provided enough points to justify a simple:
"Hu, maybe there is something fishy about this game and the companies involved. Maybe I should look into it before I touch it."
@Azherae

I genuinely thank you.

I have always understood ArcheAge to be close to the BDO model even if not in every way, making it more possible to quickly switch closer to it, with Ashes intending to pull further away from it.

My interest in this game has always hinged on it being 'Lineage that goes in the direction of FFXI' rather than 'Lineage that goes in the direction of BDO'.

That's somewhat unrelated, but I am also ignorant about the 'boots on the ground' FEELING of playing ArcheAge, and I've played enough BDO to know that it's not really easy nor possible to explain just how bad it feels to someone who doesn't play it, because a lot of what it does sounds fine or even good, theoretically.

I am willing to basically just trust your words since you feel strongly enough about it to push through the potential derision. I know the feeling. What you said matches everything I find when I do look myself, so I will consider myself informed for the time being.

Sathrago

Okeydoke wrote: »

Archeage, simultaneously one of my most loved and hated mmos. That ship has sailed for me, never going back. But it could be good for people just looking to mess around and learn about one of AoC's main inspirations.

Like James said though, I don't even know how much of it is true to form anymore from it's original vision.

One of the videos that inspired me to buy the game back then, courtesy of Bikeman. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYy0gD_lD7E

God I miss this game.

Child Item