DPS Meter Megathread

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Ludullu

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Stop replying

A very nice advice that you might wanna take yourself

Sapiverenus

NiKr wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Stop replying

A very nice advice that you might wanna take yourself

You lose the point of any conversation like an Alzheimers patient so go back to your Home

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
Ok. Why would there be a normal crit rate?
If there is no real reason something crits then it's arbitrary and probably shouldn't be in the game. There can be and are real reasons something does more damage though.

@Noaani
I do not think auditing the game makes sense except out of a warped consumer's hysteria.
Either the game seems to make sense or it doesn't. Any change to numbers is generally felt through the outcome not the details of numbers in a combat log.

You insist on characterizing everything you don't like as an extreme for the sake of a dumb argument and it's fuckin' obnoxious:
"most players will look at any game that doesnt give players any feedback as trying to hide something"

Stop replying

I don't know why things like this are put in games @Sapiverenus

I only know that they are, and there are designers AND players who consider them important.

I know games that hide stats, hide effects, not just on gear but on mobs, and if anyone EVER wanted to understand why I don't like the 'Trackerless' world, it's because games create VARIATION on MOBS by changing certain non-damage based aspects of them.

Gear can show you every single little stat on it. Mobs do not. And whenever the thing you're dealing with is random chance of X, a Tracker is often the only SANE way to know.

Why did BDO hide its real Defense and Evasion stats for years? Idk. Why did Ashes hide that weird mob-stat scaling thing that affected the damage of Castigation in Alpha-1? Don't know. Was that thing that the Dragons near the Gateway did, an intentional thing or a bug? I don't know.

All I know is that MMO developers do this stuff, and whenever 'this stuff' has RNG in it, you're guessing relative to how you should respond. I won't ask the people who are against trackers 'how to deal with the streaky-crit minotaur'. I already know many of the answers. But unless you have a way to convince Intrepid 'Don't make Critical Hits a thing from Mobs, or if you do, give them all the same Crit Rate at all times', I am unlikely to change my perspective.

I don't mind discussing solutions of 'how to figure out whether a mob has a higher critrate, whether it's just after a specific ability, whether it's a specific ability itself, whether it does it in response to damage, whether it does it in response to your position', but I will point out that this is what we use Trackers for.

Because MMO devs throw 'hidden mob stats that affect RNG' at us, and then give us different types of damage reduction on gear, and then say 'Tank this'.

Sapiverenus

Everything should be designed to be intuitive and organic rather than arbitrary and artificial.
If the minotaur does a different animation when critting then that at least is transparent where it should be if Crit means "Randomly Hits Harder or Something".

Mag7spy

Just have raid content be high action oriented with high levels of skill required. You can easily make that only the top 1-10% of players can handle that content with a lot of work put in. Easy done and done, now you have the raid scene with no trackers and a game that will be far more difficult than any mmorpg ever with the mechanics involved as well ;o.

Im sure someone is going to try to say tab target is more advanced and be lying to themselves. They are trying to use raid content as a scapegoat for why they need trackers in a hybrid game.

Hardest content revolves around using heavy action and having mechanics as well, mentally and psychically people won't have the skill to do it, nor desire to improve enough.

Sapiverenus

SQL tables don't make for a great game.
Let it be transparent where it should be, intertwined where it should be, organic as it should be, intuitive as it should be, and so on.
Trackers are just irrelevant to a good game. Unless you're trying to exploit and get info you should have to work for or not have access to: that's a hack.

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Everything should be designed to be intuitive and organic rather than arbitrary and artificial.
If the minotaur does a different animation when critting then that at least is transparent where it should be if Crit means "Randomly Hits Harder or Something".

While I agree with this, it wouldn't really tell you the thing I'm talking about nor solve it, as long as the RNG is happening.

Because it will visually tell you the same thing as the combat log would. 'How often it Crits you'.

It won't tell you 'that you're just unlucky, the critrate is still 10% overall, you just happen to be the player that gets crit 17-20% of the time so far in your experience'.

What would tell you that is a sample size of about 22,000 attacks gathered from your guildmates who also get hit by Minotaurs. Maybe. Might still be too small a sample.

Sapiverenus

Most games constrain probability.

I can tell by experience I always getting parried first strike, or miss or sometimes they dodge, and I tend to parry their first strike or they miss or sometimes I dodge in Vanilla WoW. I don't need to start collecting stats for that and I don't care; my experience is relevant to my solo experience and I can use the information right away.
It's clear that there's a mechanic there.
Thus I don't use my melee ability right away and I don't use it after a parry because it will probably miss (unless I don't care) due to the streaky nature of RNG in WoW because it's constrained RNG with hidden mechanics.

So no you don't get a tracker

Sapiverenus

If you can't learn from experience then suffer.

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

SQL tables don't make for a great game.
Let it be transparent where it should be, intertwined where it should be, organic as it should be, intuitive as it should be, and so on.
Trackers are just irrelevant to a good game. Unless you're trying to exploit and get info you should have to work for or not have access to: that's a hack.

I find that a lot of people on these forums have a habit of making big claims about what Intrepid 'would never do' and saying 'it would be stupid if it was done that way' or 'that would be a dumb idea'.

Sometimes I wonder how many developers are experiencing 'being called stupid' because that's exactly how they intend to do something, while in the weird situation of people 'having a lot of faith in them'.

You've just reminded me of that, that's all.

This isn't a point on whether you are right or wrong. I don't know how many 'SQL tables' Ashes will have. I don't know exactly what the Devs consider a 'good game'.

I know there's a Critical Hit Rate in Ashes though.

Sapiverenus

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Oh I definitely understand that, don't worry.

But would you say that IF they were 'stupid enough' to put a variable random hitrate in the game that could be different between mobs, that you feel it is unfair to have statistical analysis tools anyway?

Azherae

Azherae wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Oh I definitely understand that, don't worry.

But would you say that IF they were 'stupid enough' to put a variable random hitrate in the game that could be different between mobs, that you feel it is unfair to have statistical analysis tools anyway?

Nvm, saw the post in which you clarified as predicted.

I am not quite sure what you mean by 'constrain probability', but I'm willing to bet you're a top tier Texas sharpshooter.

Sapiverenus

Azherae wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Oh I definitely understand that, don't worry.

But would you say that IF they were 'stupid enough' to put a variable random hitrate in the game that could be different between mobs, that you feel it is unfair to have statistical analysis tools anyway?

Sounds like variable skill. That's fine. Each mob is alive and can have some variable strength/weaknesses/progression. It's immersive.

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Oh I definitely understand that, don't worry.

But would you say that IF they were 'stupid enough' to put a variable random hitrate in the game that could be different between mobs, that you feel it is unfair to have statistical analysis tools anyway?

Sounds like variable skill. That's fine. Each mob is alive and can have some variable strength/weaknesses/progression. It's immersive.

What about the fact that as a Cleric my healing could randomly crit?

My healing could randomly crit on a Regeneration tick, too.

Sapiverenus

Azherae wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Oh I definitely understand that, don't worry.

But would you say that IF they were 'stupid enough' to put a variable random hitrate in the game that could be different between mobs, that you feel it is unfair to have statistical analysis tools anyway?

Nvm, saw the post in which you clarified as predicted.

I am not quite sure what you mean by 'constrain probability', but I'm willing to bet you're a top tier Texas sharpshooter.

I don't need to be the best to get better or progress. If i'm unwilling to sink 200 hours to get to end-game content then I'm not playing and most others aren't either.
I'm fine with killing boars. I'll kill boars. The constant NPC beelining for fake story progression is BS though. The tremendous XP gained from them is BS though.

Put the game first. Put World and Meaning first.

Trackers are not important. Logs are not important. They detract from the game. Everyone that likes them or think they're important don't care about creating an immersive and well-designed game; they assume the MMO is dogshit but that means less competition or something.

Sapiverenus

Azherae wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Oh I definitely understand that, don't worry.

But would you say that IF they were 'stupid enough' to put a variable random hitrate in the game that could be different between mobs, that you feel it is unfair to have statistical analysis tools anyway?

Sounds like variable skill. That's fine. Each mob is alive and can have some variable strength/weaknesses/progression. It's immersive.

What about the fact that as a Cleric my healing could randomly crit?

My healing could randomly crit on a Regeneration tick, too.

Unless it's just a method to add slight variability like chance to get 5 - 15% more healing/ damage it's not a focus and it doesn't require tracking to notice.

It's like having a damage range on a weapon. It's basic and low effort, and it does what a crit would do. Statistically, by layering the two, it has a graph shape and that shape has an impact on feel. Just get a good feel that fits the unit or something.

A lack of cool combat is more of an issue than numbers. Number variability can be conservative; focus on mechanics and such fiddling isn't required.

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Azherae
I don't care if I call Intrepid stupid

Oh I definitely understand that, don't worry.

But would you say that IF they were 'stupid enough' to put a variable random hitrate in the game that could be different between mobs, that you feel it is unfair to have statistical analysis tools anyway?

Nvm, saw the post in which you clarified as predicted.

I am not quite sure what you mean by 'constrain probability', but I'm willing to bet you're a top tier Texas sharpshooter.

I don't need to be the best to get better or progress. If i'm unwilling to sink 200 hours to get to end-game content then I'm not playing and most others aren't either.
I'm fine with killing boars. I'll kill boars. The constant NPC beelining for fake story progression is BS though. The tremendous XP gained from them is BS though.

Put the game first. Put World and Meaning first.

Trackers are not important. Logs are not important. They detract from the game. Everyone that likes them or think they're important don't care about creating an immersive and well-designed game; they assume the MMO is dogshit but that means less competition or something.

Ok, ok, sorry.

It's not necessary for you to care about Healing Crit Rate or builds, it's my bad for addressing you when you already have such clear perspectives.

@NiKr, back to you.

How do I tell the difference between:

"Randomly increases Amount Healed by between 45 and 55%"
and
"Randomly increases Target's Healing Received Bonus by between 45 and 55%"?

Assume that a Target could build for 'Healing Received % up', and that it's possible that CON affects Healing Received % Value.

If I understand your usual stance correctly, the answer is 'you shouldn't care'?

Sapiverenus

@Azherae
Trying to make up for the lack of features with number interactions that have no presence in the game except as numbers is bad game design.

That's the only context that really matters here. Everything else is fiddling with pennies while the pounds are ignored.
Either there is design or standins for design.

Sapiverenus

I'm not sure how healing works in terms of lore but something more elaborate than Health Points would be pretty nice.
Such as Injuries to remedy. Remove Cripple as the most basic conception of alternative 'healing'.

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