DPS Meter Megathread

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Sapiverenus

A game should begin with depth not end with it.

Sapiverenus

I don't think mirrored diseases with one being the bomb is juicy but a game that puts depth in the foundation is going to be a better game.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

A game should begin with depth not end with it.

Sapiverenus wrote: »

I don't think mirrored diseases with one being the bomb is juicy but a game that puts depth in the foundation is going to be a better game.

You seem to not be aware that a good MMO is literally always being added to.

Not at the pace of something like a MOBA, or BR or anything. A game like EQ or EQ2 is today about 20 times the actual size as it was when it was launched.

When adding new content to an MMO, the general practice is as I explained above.

That said, I challenge you to name any one game of any one genre that doesn't add depth as you get further in to the game.

Even simple games like Candy Crush do.

Aerlana

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Why hide such juicy shit in a raid that's 1000 hours away? Why not design that into the base game?

It is hard to perpetually create, innovate.

When you do "top end content" you have ALSO to do easier content, to have a "curve of progress" in your game.
Except if you go to a continuous vertical progression, where the hard content with time, becomes midtier content, then lowtier content. (but not a good game design for MMORPG)

A common thing is first to have for leveling/first HL contents mostly standart/base mechanic, displayed in various way => learning phase.
Then few HL content with some new mechanic, or base mechanic but used in really tricky way.

And then you finally do a new content post release, you want it harder, you will try to innovate, new mechanics, new tricks. But with time, people doing boss it becomes just "another mechanic". It begins for "top end players" and end up for "everyone"

it is not new for the top end players (who will have new thing in the next top end content) but remains new for all others. While if you do it first in a large public content, then top end... there the top end players will already know how to deal with it... you have to ad few tricks to it else, what you did has no challenge (accumulate 2-3 mechanics to deal at the same time to make it harder for example)

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Let it be transparent where it should be

See, on this point, we agree.

If a games combat system is transparent enough, a tracker isn't needed.

"Transparent enough" to me means I can look back at an encounter while in game and see how much damage a given ability did and when, how much damage a given damage type did, etc. If a game is to be considered transparent, these things are the minimum threshold, imo. If a game.is indeed this transparent, then a tracker isn't needed, because the game essentially has one built in already.

As an aside, having a tracker built in to Ashes is what my argument here is.

In the past, most MMO's have gotten around adding a tracker to the game simply by allowing third party trackers access to the data in a log file. This allowed those games to have full transparency. These games did unload a small amount of what could be described as "preferences" on to third party developers, with trackers and custom UI's being the main aspects that developers left up to third parties.

In terms of the player base deciding whether or not Ashes is transparent, they will be comparing it to other games in the same genre. I mean, when it comes to something like transparency of a product, all you can do is compare it to similar products.

So, Ashes will be held up to games where third party developers have combat trackers - literally every other MMO ever made.

If Ashes can be held up to those games and be considered to be at least close to comparable in terms of transparency of it's systems, then again, a third party combat tracker isn't needed - because the only real way to achieve that is to have a built in combat tracker.

This same guy says he doesn't trust devs, so now he is going to trust the tracker all the sudden lmao. Literally saying anything to try to get trackers in the game so it can lead to better third party trackers because there will be huge limitations based on it being hybrid / gameplay and the fact the tracker cant access any of the files

Noaani is not someone you can trust.

Mag7spy

Aerlana wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Trackers are not important. Logs are not important. They detract from the game. Everyone that likes them or think they're important don't care about creating an immersive and well-designed game; they assume the MMO is dogshit but that means less competition or something.

Global chat and proxy chat are not important, they detract from the game. Everyone that likes them or think they're important don't care about creating an immersive and well designed game, etc...

Backpack system is not important, it detract from the game. Everyone that likes them or think they're important don't care about creating an immersive and well designed game

You know what is fun with people claiming things as truth without any argument ? Their logic can be applied to dismantle their own topic they defend.

Oh, and... as global/proxy chat defenders are saying "just turn of tracker if your guild get this perk"

So, to finish to argument the way you do, i would simply say "stop replying" ... this would be better for yourself v_v

Global chat is important, social elements are important. If you are less social, not needing information, not running guilds it will be less important to you and you are using the bias as a real to not have it when you can turn it off.

SongRune

Noaani wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Get Officers.

Ok. All this tells me is that you have never been involved in an organized top end raid.

Yeah. In case you weren't watching the other thread:

Sapiverenus wrote: »

I haven't played much of any video game. They are interesting from a design and engineering point of view or social/ team/ leadership point of view, but they are all lacking too much for me to get much out of it otherwise.
So I often think about how games and reality works more than play them.
Also it's cost prohibitive for me.

Aerlana

Mag7spy wrote: »

This same guy says he doesn't trust devs, so now he is going to trust the tracker all the sudden lmao.

When he said he didnt trust devs and this is why he wanted tracker to do tests... how did you understand this if not "i trust tracker" which is more in fact "i trust factual datas" (tracker just gathering and displaying them) ?

Or do you think, because he said he doesn't trust devs, it would lead to imagine them to do a tracker giving false informations ? This would be a paranoid logic... And if devs do this, it would be one of the worst move to do.

What he said is more : because he doesn't trust dev, but only factual datas, he will use tool to check factual datas

also on what he post, he spoke about transparency... and transparency is "i checked numbers all are fine, trust me bro". but "i checked numbers, they are fine. here they are all, check it yourself"

And still waiting your demonstration that in game tracker means more use of third party tracker...
Claim with no proof or no argument has no value

Mag7spy

Aerlana wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

This same guy says he doesn't trust devs, so now he is going to trust the tracker all the sudden lmao.

When he said he didnt trust devs and this is why he wanted tracker to do tests... how did you understand this if not "i trust tracker" which is more in fact "i trust factual datas" (tracker just gathering and displaying them) ?

Or do you think, because he said he doesn't trust devs, it would lead to imagine them to do a tracker giving false informations ? This would be a paranoid logic... And if devs do this, it would be one of the worst move to do.

What he said is more : because he doesn't trust dev, but only factual datas, he will use tool to check factual datas

also on what he post, he spoke about transparency... and transparency is "i checked numbers all are fine, trust me bro". but "i checked numbers, they are fine. here they are all, check it yourself"

And still waiting your demonstration that in game tracker means more use of third party tracker...
Claim with no proof or no argument has no value

You do not need trackers to test factual data you can do that on your own. A third party tracker isn't going to suddenly give you better information you can't find out on your own through actual testing.

Mag7spy

Because you are trying to manipulate information and ignorant saying it won't. Any added information a tracker have in game will only make third party trackers better, or if first party trackers are lacking and not adding anything big people simply use third party trackers.

Your idea that guild perks for trackers is also really just plain stupid, I've seen you back that on pure ignorance on competitive players. If you have limited guild perks you will use the third party trackers since (trackers would be accepted by that point) and use your guild points else where.

Only reason you say as a "guild perk" is so you can try to bait and say it can't be against to since its already in game and any tracker should be fine to use. You are the same person that also liked the post about all add ons should be fine earlier in this thread im fairly certain and they would be fine with combat assistance sooooo, you can't be trusted either.

Tragnar

i wonder if Mag7spy has caught up in volume of posts to noaani just because he quotes full posts without even reading them and spams the conversation to be completely unreadable

Tragnar

i'd legit give him a warning and ban afterwards for spam if he doesnt condense his posts

Mag7spy

Tragnar wrote: »

i'd legit give him a warning and ban afterwards for spam if he doesnt condense his posts

Typical toxic player right here.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Only reason you say as a "guild perk" is so you can try to bait and say it can't be against to since its already in game and any tracker should be fine to use.

We've gone over this already, but as it doesnt fit your imaginary narrative, you seem to have ignored it.

It would be viable for Intrepid to actually have a rule against trackers if they have one built in to the game. They are allowed to have rules preventing people from replicating any in game function out of the game. As such, if the game has a combat tracker function, they are allowed a rule preventing out of game tracker use. As a rule, this would actually extend past the computer the games software is on.

Not saying it would be easy to enforce, but it is the only way I know of in which they could actually have a rule against third party trackers.

As such, your comments that anyone would ask Intrepid to add a built in tracker to make it more viable to use a third party tracker is just outright untrue. If anything, the literal opposite of what you are suggesting would be the case.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani

I do not play many games and they do not interest me. Real life is more interesting to me and doing nothing but sitting in my chair is often more interesting to me.

If a game can't compete with that then perhaps flat, artificial gimmicks like video games just aren't that appealing!

Name one game that isn't a time-wasting gimmick.

Big Picture.

They can't compete and until there's something interesting about games such as innovative and deep design I won't be playing much of anything or be looking to buy any games.

There's no depth.

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Noaani

I do not play many games and they do not interest me. Real life is more interesting to me and doing nothing but sitting in my chair is often more interesting to me.

If a game can't compete with that then perhaps flat, artificial gimmicks like video games just aren't that appealing!

Name one game that isn't a time-wasting gimmick.

Big Picture.

They can't compete and until there's something interesting about games such as innovative and deep design I won't be playing much of anything or be looking to buy any games.

There's no depth.

So wait, you DON'T actually play MineCraft on 2b2t?

Sapiverenus

Yall want to work on your specific MMO formula that has been handed down for decades so I'll leave it at that and probably leave the forum soon.

Azherae

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Yall want to work on your specific MMO formula that has been handed down for decades so I'll leave it at that and probably leave the forum soon.

I see... well... uh... bye I guess.

I recommend it though, it seems like your kind of thing.

Sapiverenus

no ffs

Sapiverenus

I'm not a hardcore escapist, I just prefer reality to video games.

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