Leveling Only PvP

Will the leveling system be compatible with players dedicated to PvP activities?

Hello and welcome on this thread.

Here is a summary of the different answers already given to the question. This will allow you to contribute without having to reread everything :

The direct answer is no! It will not be possible to do only PvP to reach the Max level.

It's a unique world with its own progression system. This will require the players to vary the activities in order to progress his character as well as his Node. This is a PvX game!

Players will still be able to activate the PvP mode at any time in the game, but it will not be a viable method of progression to level up.

PvP during leveling will be a "choice" or an approach for players. In order to determine which group will be able to take advantage of a quest, farm or dungeon area.

At each Soft Cap during leveling, leveling up will require leveling up the Node. This will be good for PvP activities because PvE activities do not allow leveling up anymore.

Small Disclaimer:

As the game is in the Alpha one testing phase, all answers and sayings in this thread may change and are not indicative of the state of the game. Most of the answers are in the form of assumptions or interpretations. Thanks

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Comments

Hinotori

No, you won't be able to level up doing 100% pvp activities unless you're extremely patient and are happy waiting around for those activities to kick off. (Such as caravans and sieges, castle wars, node wars etc) you could always duel in the ocean I suppose. But that would likely get monotonous

Most players would get bored. It'd be alot faster leveling through pve and engaging with the pvp that comes from it naturally.

Warth

PvP will not be a viable leveling option.
its not designed to be.

Zazariel

I mean, it's done ?! it's already decided by devs ? The game development goes already too far to include pvp in leveling ??

WHIT3ROS3

Zazariel wrote: »

I mean, it's done ?! it's already decided by devs ? The game development goes already too far to include pvp in leveling ??

Yes. It has been clearly stated dozens of times that this isn't a design philosophy that AoC is looking to embrace.

Strevi

I'd like nodes to have guard towers for low level players to build and defend against other players and NPCs
The towers would provide some protection or benefits to the node.
These towers could be for level 15, 30 and 45 players.

Sathrago

Zazariel wrote: »

I mean, it's done ?! it's already decided by devs ? The game development goes already too far to include pvp in leveling ??

Just to make sure you understand, the game does promote and allow for pvp at many opportunities, it just doesn't let you level your character from pvp in any viable sense.

Mag7spy

ITs a PvX game impossible to only lvl just doing pvp, you will have to fight mobs at some point regardless

Best advice i can give is join a guild focused on pvp and you will have plenty of action out there in the world.

Zazariel

I'm a bit disappointing. To be honest, game with RvR and leveling while PvP does exist ! I mean, why war is waiting for people to reach level max ? Why should i condemn hours of bashing mobs, quest before fighting for position, resources and lands ?! I'm ok still, if the game is developed in the other way, fine with it. But cant we not discuss about it ? If the game is created and designed to progress with players interaction, well then, PvP is a player vs player interaction, no ?

Warth

Zazariel wrote: »

I'm a bit disappointing. To be honest, game with RvR and leveling while PvP does exist ! I mean, why war is waiting for people to reach level max ? Why should i condemn hours of bashing mobs, quest before fighting for position, resources and lands ?! I'm ok still, if the game is developed in the other way, fine with it. But cant we not discuss about it ? If the game is created and designed to progress with players interaction, well then, PvP is a player vs player interaction, no ?

Games like that do exist, this isn't one of them though.

War doesn't wait until Max. Yiu can join wars while leveling. Its just not majorly rewarding to do so.

PvP is mostly regressive/destructive by Design in Ashes. Summed up, all participants will have lost progress in the end, not gained it.

PvE Builds the World/Progress
PvP destroys the World/Progress.

It really follows the EvE design philosophy in that regard where PvP generally is a net loss

If you solely want to pvp, then ashes won't be for you. You will be expected to do major amounts of pve content as pvp and pve is geavily intertwined

Ludullu

Zazariel wrote: »

I'm a bit disappointing. To be honest, game with RvR and leveling while PvP does exist ! I mean, why war is waiting for people to reach level max ? Why should i condemn hours of bashing mobs, quest before fighting for position, resources and lands ?! I'm ok still, if the game is developed in the other way, fine with it. But cant we not discuss about it ? If the game is created and designed to progress with players interaction, well then, PvP is a player vs player interaction, no ?

L2 had people fighting each other literally from lvl 1. No one's stopping you from fighting others. But in order to be better at pvp you gotta do pve. Wanna know why? Because this is a PvX game and not a purely pvp one (neither it's a purely pve one).

Sapiverenus

If XP was from Use rather than Kill then you could bash a tree and get some XP even if it were a little diminished. Kill could still create some XP so that it's more productive to bash and kill than bash and run in PvE.

But extra XP from bashing in PvP sounds great. Maybe a bit less XP on kill but a bit extra XP from bashing people sounds good.

It lends itself to Duels as well.

FuryBladeborne

@Zazariel
Aside from the points made by Warth, here is the reason that the answer is no.

PvP is everywhere in Ashes. Dying in PvP is similar to dying in PvE as you take death penalty. Even though that penalty is half if you were fighting in PvP, you still take half penalty. That includes the experience debt.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death

To me it looks like trying to gain experience purely in PvP is going to result in possibly insurmountable experience debt. Even if you do manage to level, the grind is going to be nuts. This is a game that is already intended to take 45 days at 4-6 hours playtime a day to hit max level. Trying to do this only in PvP while dying against the faster progressing superior geared PvE nerds sounds like something that only the most extreme gaming masochist would do.

Also FYI, while it looks like arena won't have experience debt it does not look like that system will work for leveling to me. Even if it does grant XP. Which we haven't been told as far as I know.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas

Strevi

Zazariel wrote: »

I'm a bit disappointing. To be honest, game with RvR and leveling while PvP does exist ! I mean, why war is waiting for people to reach level max ? Why should i condemn hours of bashing mobs, quest before fighting for position, resources and lands ?! I'm ok still, if the game is developed in the other way, fine with it. But cant we not discuss about it ? If the game is created and designed to progress with players interaction, well then, PvP is a player vs player interaction, no ?

I don't understand this either.
Why force PvP players to level up doing PvE?

Feels like a bad design.

Strevi

Mag7spy wrote: »

ITs a PvX game impossible to only lvl just doing pvp, you will have to fight mobs at some point regardless

Best advice i can give is join a guild focused on pvp and you will have plenty of action out there in the world.

PvX means the possibility to do both.
But when leveling up... they say no, you will be a PvE player for at least 45 days, but longer if you do that without passion, dragging your feet through PvE content.

Ludullu

Strevi wrote: »

I don't understand this either.
Why force PvP players to level up doing PvE?

Feels like a bad design.

Feels like a PvX design. Simple.

Strevi wrote: »

PvX means the possibility to do both.
But when leveling up... they say no, you will be a PvE player for at least 45 days, but longer if you do that without passion, dragging your feet through PvE content.

And if Intrepid designs their farming locations/quests correctly there'll be a ton of pvp for that pve. I couldn't go an hour of farming in L2 w/o fighting someone for it. And unless you're literally the pioneer of all the content or the very last person to start leveling up on your server - you'll probably run into other people and try to fight for your right to party farm.

Strevi

NiKr wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

I don't understand this either.
Why force PvP players to level up doing PvE?

Feels like a bad design.

Feels like a PvX design. Simple.

Strevi wrote: »

PvX means the possibility to do both.
But when leveling up... they say no, you will be a PvE player for at least 45 days, but longer if you do that without passion, dragging your feet through PvE content.

And if Intrepid designs their farming locations/quests correctly there'll be a ton of pvp for that pve. I couldn't go an hour of farming in L2 w/o fighting someone for it. And unless you're literally the pioneer of all the content or the very last person to start leveling up on your server - you'll probably run into other people and try to fight for your right to party farm.

That's true!

So much discussion about how corruption protects made me forget that one can chose to fight.
They socially manipulated my mind!
They could have their own class in game, mind controllers.

Zazariel

NiKr wrote: »

And if Intrepid designs their farming locations/quests correctly there'll be a ton of pvp for that pve. I couldn't go an hour of farming in L2 w/o fighting someone for it. And unless you're literally the pioneer of all the content or the very last person to start leveling up on your server - you'll probably run into other people and try to fight for your right to party farm.

So the PvP activity of fighting for resources will be present in the game. I think that's a very good point!

Now I wonder what other PvsP or PvX activity will be present during the adventure and what will be their rewards/consequences?

To clarify another point, I have absolutely nothing against progressing efficiently through quests or bashing. I just wonder if the PvP alternative can also fill the sometimes redundant leveling phases.

Warth wrote:

Games like that do exist, this isn't one of them though.

War doesn't wait until Max. Yiu can join wars while leveling. Its just not majorly rewarding to do so.

PvP is mostly regressive/destructive by Design in Ashes. Summed up, all participants will have lost progress in the end, not gained it.

PvE Builds the World/Progress
PvP destroys the World/Progress.

It really follows the EvE design philosophy in that regard where PvP generally is a net loss

If you solely want to pvp, then ashes won't be for you. You will be expected to do major amounts of pve content as pvp and pve is geavily intertwined

This is a point where I would like to be enlightened. What is the reason for making pvp unprofitable and destroying world progression?

Ludullu

Zazariel wrote: »

To clarify another point, I have absolutely nothing against progressing efficiently through quests or bashing. I just wonder if the PvP alternative can also fill the sometimes redundant leveling phases.

If pvp gave XP (and/or even gear) - some people would be able to go through the game by just pvping. And that is not the goal of a PvX game. Just as PvErs won't be able to completely avoid pvp in their leveling process, the pvpers will have to pve too. That's pvx.

You'll have enough pvp progression in the game. There'll be seasonal ladders in arenas, node/castle sieges, bounty hunting and caravan raiding - all of those will have some form of reward and will progress your character and its reputation on the server.

There's also the open seas, guild/node wars and general flagging rules around boss fights, so in a way there's way more pvp features in the game, but they will all be interconnected with pve in some way.

Strevi

Zazariel wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

And if Intrepid designs their farming locations/quests correctly there'll be a ton of pvp for that pve. I couldn't go an hour of farming in L2 w/o fighting someone for it. And unless you're literally the pioneer of all the content or the very last person to start leveling up on your server - you'll probably run into other people and try to fight for your right to party farm.

So the PvP activity of fighting for resources will be present in the game. I think that's a very good point!

Now I wonder what other PvsP or PvX activity will be present during the adventure and what will be their rewards/consequences?

To clarify another point, I have absolutely nothing against progressing efficiently through quests or bashing. I just wonder if the PvP alternative can also fill the sometimes redundant leveling phases.

Warth wrote:

Games like that do exist, this isn't one of them though.

War doesn't wait until Max. Yiu can join wars while leveling. Its just not majorly rewarding to do so.

PvP is mostly regressive/destructive by Design in Ashes. Summed up, all participants will have lost progress in the end, not gained it.

PvE Builds the World/Progress
PvP destroys the World/Progress.

It really follows the EvE design philosophy in that regard where PvP generally is a net loss

If you solely want to pvp, then ashes won't be for you. You will be expected to do major amounts of pve content as pvp and pve is geavily intertwined

This is a point where I would like to be enlightened. What is the reason for making pvp unprofitable and destroying world progression?

World progression?

Resouces will be scarce they say.
I assume high tier resources will be scarce enough that some will be tempted to siege other cities for them or fallback to lower tier gear and mounts.

Any death, PvP or PvE causes durability loss on gear and mounts.

A legendary weapon you cannot repair is a dead weapon.

Warth

Zazariel wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

And if Intrepid designs their farming locations/quests correctly there'll be a ton of pvp for that pve. I couldn't go an hour of farming in L2 w/o fighting someone for it. And unless you're literally the pioneer of all the content or the very last person to start leveling up on your server - you'll probably run into other people and try to fight for your right to party farm.

So the PvP activity of fighting for resources will be present in the game. I think that's a very good point!

Now I wonder what other PvsP or PvX activity will be present during the adventure and what will be their rewards/consequences?

To clarify another point, I have absolutely nothing against progressing efficiently through quests or bashing. I just wonder if the PvP alternative can also fill the sometimes redundant leveling phases.

Warth wrote:

Games like that do exist, this isn't one of them though.

War doesn't wait until Max. Yiu can join wars while leveling. Its just not majorly rewarding to do so.

PvP is mostly regressive/destructive by Design in Ashes. Summed up, all participants will have lost progress in the end, not gained it.

PvE Builds the World/Progress
PvP destroys the World/Progress.

It really follows the EvE design philosophy in that regard where PvP generally is a net loss

If you solely want to pvp, then ashes won't be for you. You will be expected to do major amounts of pve content as pvp and pve is geavily intertwined

This is a point where I would like to be enlightened. What is the reason for making pvp unprofitable and destroying world progression?

@Zazariel for one very simple reason really. Because thats the Design Choice Intrepid made. Whether you agree with it or not really doesnt matter. Thats just how it is.

PvE Generates Progress. You get materials, you craft items, you build up Nodes.

PvP doesnt generate anything. It destroys progress.

materials needed for repairs
the loss of caravans
the materials it took to build up Nodes
potentially Ships
siege equipment

What is really created through PvP? Nothing. You merely steal stuff from somebody else or make sure that you get the stuff instead of somebody else.

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