Procedural Generated Dungeons Under a Divine Metropolis

So hear me out, I believe there has been discussion on a divine metropolis opening up a dungeon beneath it or something to that effect. I believe having a massive instance dungeon(floor by floor) would be an enjoyable concept. Think dungeons that we have seen in popular anime primarily where there are a large number of floor where it becomes increasingly more dangerous albeit more rewarding the deeper you go. Making it procedural would make it less work to create I imagine and there wouldn't be a need for new mobs or anything, just pull mobs from the world. This could be a nice way aswell for those who are unable to fight a world boss to get its mats if for some reason there's a mega guild preventing others from killing it just for the sake of doing it. That's ofcourse a side benefit. Bloodborne procedural dungeons also come to mind, just on a much larger scale. This could also be something that would come in a dlc or something. Just a thought I wanted to get out there so it may be a bit spitballed so apologies for that. Anyway, thoughts?

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Ludullu

Instance content is not supposed to be repeatable and will not give BiS stuff that open world bosses will. This suggestion would go directly against that design, so I disagree with it.

Settite

That's reasonable. It doesn't have to offer bis or it could offer mats but not the whole package of everything ud need to make a bis item. I'd like the concept as non instanced though I'd imagine it might be hampering on the server depending on how expansive it is.

Aerlana

As said, by nikr...

To develop my own opinion : i have nothing against some instanced content... BUT
it HAS to be side content, facultativ, with minor rewards, or non-efficient way to farm. some character-challenge content, or other things of this kind (as towers in LA/WoW/BNS for example or deepdungeon in FFXIV).
And with "useless" rewards as some aesthetic shits.

The spirit of the game is to be open world. and so, the core of the game, the farm, the usefull things etc, have to be in open world and nowhere else.

Ludullu

Settite wrote: »

That's reasonable. It doesn't have to offer bis or it could offer mats but not the whole package of everything ud need to make a bis item. I'd like the concept as non instanced though I'd imagine it might be hampering on the server depending on how expansive it is.

Here's a catacomb from L2. It was "instanced", in the way that you had to use a teleporter to get inside of the location, but the teleporter was open to everyone so it wasn't a personal instance. I expect Ashes to have smth similar in its structure, if they decide to follow through with the divine catacomb idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JioiLOOg4Hk

Settite

NiKr wrote: »

Settite wrote: »

That's reasonable. It doesn't have to offer bis or it could offer mats but not the whole package of everything ud need to make a bis item. I'd like the concept as non instanced though I'd imagine it might be hampering on the server depending on how expansive it is.

Here's a catacomb from L2. It was "instanced", in the way that you had to use a teleporter to get inside of the location, but the teleporter was open to everyone so it wasn't a personal instance. I expect Ashes to have smth similar in its structure, if they decide to follow through with the divine catacomb idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JioiLOOg4Hk

That looks solid. I think it'd b a nice idea for additional content. Adds another layer to pvp without taking away from what they already have.

Settite

Aerlana wrote: »

As said, by nikr...

To develop my own opinion : i have nothing against some instanced content... BUT
it HAS to be side content, facultativ, with minor rewards, or non-efficient way to farm. some character-challenge content, or other things of this kind (as towers in LA/WoW/BNS for example or deepdungeon in FFXIV).
And with "useless" rewards as some aesthetic shits.

The spirit of the game is to be open world. and so, the core of the game, the farm, the usefull things etc, have to be in open world and nowhere else.

That's fair. I was unaware L2 did something similar, but with that info I'd prefer that way. I'm more in favor of pvp as opposed to pve personally.

Ludullu

Settite wrote: »

That's fair. I was unaware L2 did something similar, but with that info I'd prefer that way. I'm more in favor of pvp as opposed to pve personally.

It was similar only in the concept of a catacomb with similarly-looking rooms. It wasn't procedurally generated and it wasn't tied to any cities or anything.

But at its core it's pretty much what the divine catacombs could look like and function. Each divine node could have an entrance into the catacomb which would give different groups of people chances to outmaneuver some big guild that's trying to control the location. The procedural generation could easily build a location that looks exactly like the one in that video, just because you have room blocks that look pretty much identical (and Intrepid have already shown that their randomizing tech works nicely for this kind of stuff). And the location being accessible through a teleporter lets it be separate from the general open world, so the performance of the game inside should stay great.

All in all, if Intrepid decide to make this, it'd definitely be a very juicy farming location with a ton of pvp and a huge reason to develop at least one divine metro on the server, which will push people to siege nodes and that's the goal of the game.

Settite

NiKr wrote: »

Settite wrote: »

That's fair. I was unaware L2 did something similar, but with that info I'd prefer that way. I'm more in favor of pvp as opposed to pve personally.

It was similar only in the concept of a catacomb with similarly-looking rooms. It wasn't procedurally generated and it wasn't tied to any cities or anything.

But at its core it's pretty much what the divine catacombs could look like and function. Each divine node could have an entrance into the catacomb which would give different groups of people chances to outmaneuver some big guild that's trying to control the location. The procedural generation could easily build a location that looks exactly like the one in that video, just because you have room blocks that look pretty much identical (and Intrepid have already shown that their randomizing tech works nicely for this kind of stuff). And the location being accessible through a teleporter lets it be separate from the general open world, so the performance of the game inside should stay great.

All in all, if Intrepid decide to make this, it'd definitely be a very juicy farming location with a ton of pvp and a huge reason to develop at least one divine metro on the server, which will push people to siege nodes and that's the goal of the game.

Sounds solid, hopefully someone from intrepid sees this thread if this design is not already in the works. How large was the catacombs in L2? The mmo I put the most time in is eso so this is a bit outside of my knowledge base.

Ludullu

Settite wrote: »

How large was the catacombs in L2?

Here's one of the 14 such dungeons

And here's a list of all of them with full maps for each on their respective pages
https://www.l2scroll.com/2020/04/

Settite

NiKr wrote: »

Settite wrote: »

How large was the catacombs in L2?

Here's one of the 14 such dungeons

And here's a list of all of them with full maps for each on their respective pages
https://www.l2scroll.com/2020/04/

Daamn that looks beautiful. If we something even remotely close to this il b in love. Ty

Ludullu

Settite wrote: »

Daamn that looks beautiful. If we something even remotely close to this il b in love. Ty

And again, don't forget that these are hand-made. Procedurally generated ones could be even bigger and more intricate, if Intrepid nails the parameters for the generation.

Settite

NiKr wrote: »

Settite wrote: »

Daamn that looks beautiful. If we something even remotely close to this il b in love. Ty

And again, don't forget that these are hand-made. Procedurally generated ones could be even bigger and more intricate, if Intrepid nails the parameters for the generation.

Definitely. Ty for engaging with me on this. I appreciate the input.

Taaku

I would like something like this. I personally think more MMO's need to look into randomized dungeons. Otherwise it all becomes a writeup on a website with a video guide of how to skip 80% of the mobs, and glitch 3 of the 5 bosses and completely negate main boss fight mechanics. I want to enter a dungeon and for once not know what the heck to expect.

And like was mentioned before, I really like the idea that these kinds of dungeons don't need to drop BiS gear or like amazing gear. Maybe some pretty good gear for yer level. But if they just drop materials that people actually need or use regularly and are always needed that would always incentivize players to run them.

Obviously it need a lot more thought put into it. But just throwing out my 2 cents.

Settite

Taaku wrote: »

I would like something like this. I personally think more MMO's need to look into randomized dungeons. Otherwise it all becomes a writeup on a website with a video guide of how to skip 80% of the mobs, and glitch 3 of the 5 bosses and completely negate main boss fight mechanics. I want to enter a dungeon and for once not know what the heck to expect.

And like was mentioned before, I really like the idea that these kinds of dungeons don't need to drop BiS gear or like amazing gear. Maybe some pretty good gear for yer level. But if they just drop materials that people actually need or use regularly and are always needed that would always incentivize players to run them.

Obviously it need a lot more thought put into it. But just throwing out my 2 cents.

Ty for the insight. I agree with you on that. Randomized anything (If done right) are a good addition to any game. And yea, just dropping mats that are worth it is more than enough reason to do the content since mats look like they will always be worth it based on the game design. What would be cool is if it randomizes design of catacombs/ dungeon once a week which would incentives exploration. You never know what you would find and there won't be any guide( at least not in depth ones) which adds to the mystery and intrigue.

WHIT3ROS3

NiKr wrote: »

Instance content is not supposed to be repeatable and will not give BiS stuff that open world bosses will. This suggestion would go directly against that design, so I disagree with it.

I really think this "non-repeatable" quote regarding instanced content needs to be clarified. Primarily because it makes no sense. Instanced content is all content outside of the open world. Arenas are instanced. Are you saying they won't be repeatable? It's ridiculous.

Also. When it comes to instanced PvE content (such as dungeons etc) The idea that they will be one and done is absurd and would be a complete waste of time effort and resources.

Also. The idea that the ONLY rewards from instanced content can be gear is also silly and shows a complete lack of imagination. Why can't there be rewards such a transmog sets, pets, furniture, buildings, skins, consumables, lore, trophies, achievements, etc.

Ludullu

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

I really think this "non-repeatable" quote regarding instanced content needs to be clarified. Primarily because it makes no sense. Instanced content is all content outside of the open world. Arenas are instanced. Are you saying they won't be repeatable? It's ridiculous.

Yes, we do need a clarification. A great question for the next dev stream.

Here's the full quote.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxZ7N6M1JDXO1loO8cM8GinAwd1Xej7vor

The "non-repeatable" stuff was said in the context of you usual WoW-like stuff where you go into your own (or your party's) separate location where no one can interrupt what you're doing and then farm that location for gear and other shit. And Ashes won't have those.

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Also. When it comes to instanced PvE content (such as dungeons etc) The idea that they will be one and done is absurd and would be a complete waste of time effort and resources.

As said in that clip - instances are mainly for story-related stuff. There's no point for a player to redo a story instance when they've already seen that part of the story.

There's obviously the ff14 approach of deleveling people and letting them help lowbies with their story stuff, but I don't think we've heard how Intrepid will approach that with the mentor program. Though we do know that it won't scale players to different lvls, so there's that.

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Also. The idea that the ONLY rewards from instanced content can be gear is also silly and shows a complete lack of imagination. Why can't there be rewards such a transmog sets, pets, furniture, buildings, skins, consumables, lore, trophies, achievements, etc.

Because, afaik, most if not all of that stuff is supposed to be farmed in the open world. And if you can get something through an instance where there's 0 potential for pvp - that's not a pvx design.

Though I'm pretty sure those story instances will reward people with basic gear (at respective lvls), so some of the same instances might give other rewards too.

But overall, the whole design is "a predominantly open world pvx game with limited resources", so the design is mainly directed towards the open world content.

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