DPS Meter Megathread

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Noaani

The notion of people leaving due to developers goes above and beyond gaming.

Right now, streamers are looking at leaving Twitch, due to them changing the revenue split.

While its obvious that people losing out on a good chunk of money would leave based on this, people that are not set to lose out now are looking at moving to YouTube, as they have the assumption that eventually Amazon will force Twitch to make even more money, and who knows who they will go after at that point.

Essentially, they are looking at jumping from Twitxh because they no longer trust them.

@Sapiverenus notion that people stick around as long as the product is good - in spite of lack of trust in the people making that product - is just demonstrably false. But then, that is on brand.

Strevi

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-63010107
How can you handle such cases?

They cheat even when they are sitting face to face.
Definitely MMOs are at disadvantage, as we will not relocate to live close to each-other, and strip while playing.

Sapiverenus

@Ace1234

They are basically related topics. The DPS Meter topic is smaller if anything.
I will push the issue simply because I can.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani

It is true. No one is trying to earn your trust. Your trust is meaningless. You simply have a certain game you want. If that game doesn't exist here then you will leave. Same with whomever else.
If a restaurant often has roaches in their food, "your trust is ruined". The point is there are roaches in the food though.
Dramatic statements to get one's way are a common manipulation LMAO

Sapiverenus

@Aerlana

I will never want to spend 1k hours on a 'character'.
It has nothing to do with trust though. It's just a waste of time.
This shit isn't a bank.

At least, it shouldn't try to be one. That's not a GAME

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani

It is true. No one is trying to earn your trust. Your trust is meaningless.

My trust is worth $30 a month - to an MMO publisher.

As I said, I (and many others) have left MMO's in the past due to loss of trust in the developer or publisher of that MMO. It is - as far as I can see - the main reason people leave an in development game (aka, any live MMO).

Almost my entire guild left Archeage in a single day because they believed XL when they said the game had solid raid content ready at launch. We killed the end boss of the game, which was a joke, and people realized XL didnt even know what good raid content was.

We knew they had intentions of adding new raid content, but since the bulk of players didnt trust XL to make it good, we left. If that publisher was SoE/Daybreak, or even Blizzard, we would have been happy waiting, knowing that there was some good content coming up. With XL though, we knew it would be more shit.

Basically, if you trust a developer, you will stick it out in a game through times when the game isnt great (if an MMO doesnt have times when it isnt great, the developers are not trying hard enough). The thing is, if you trust the developer, you stick through it. If you dont trust them, you leave.

This has been a staple concept in MMO communities for years - over a decade. You not understanding it or agreeing with it doesnt make it not true, it just highlights your lack of understanding of MMO communities and their interaction with developers.

Go watch some of the early livestreams from 2017 and 2018, Steven talks about how important trust is in the MMO world.

Still confused as to why you made such a big proclamation that you were putting me on ignore, yet clearly dont have me on ignore.

Settings > Preferences > Ignore List.

Aerlana

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Aerlana

I will never want to spend 1k hours on a 'character'.

it is what lot of mmorpg enjoyers (large majority) have in mind. not 10 or 50 hours, but hundreds and hundreds, spread along months, years.

You don't play MMORPG for just few hours and leave, it is not what you are aiming for if you go on MMORPG, but for a long term play.
If you want short term, there are d2/d3 or PoE with their season, or also simply, solo game.

The simple fact you just define it as "waste of time" proves you don't care about the game, and just want your own egoistic desire to bloom...
I personally never felt "wasting my time" when i spent it in a hobby... be it video game, sport, music or w40k

I mean...

Sapiverenus wrote: »

you're all trying to tell him what to do and what you want in the game; stop tonguing ass.

Isn't it what you try to do also ?
The difference is you hate video game, while we like them, specifically MMORPG...

What is, for you, the best game ?
What are you doing here on a forum about a hobby you hate ?
2 questions, 0 answers... hard to be honest with yourself maybe ?

Sapiverenus

Aerlana wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Aerlana

I will never want to spend 1k hours on a 'character'.

it is what lot of mmorpg enjoyers (large majority) have in mind. not 10 or 50 hours, but hundreds and hundreds, spread along months, years.

You don't play MMORPG for just few hours and leave, it is not what you are aiming for if you go on MMORPG, but for a long term play.
If you want short term, there are d2/d3 or PoE with their season, or also simply, solo game.

The simple fact you just define it as "waste of time" proves you don't care about the game, and just want your own egoistic desire to bloom...
I personally never felt "wasting my time" when i spent it in a hobby... be it video game, sport, music or w40k

I mean...

Sapiverenus wrote: »

you're all trying to tell him what to do and what you want in the game; stop tonguing ass.

Isn't it what you try to do also ?
The difference is you hate video game, while we like them, specifically MMORPG...

What is, for you, the best game ?
What are you doing here on a forum about a hobby you hate ?
2 questions, 0 answers... hard to be honest with yourself maybe ?

No one wants to wait to have fun. You have nothing better to do and enjoy being at the top by simply wasting your time more than others are willing to, but everyone else wants to simply play the game, improve and enjoy some dynamic gameplay.

It's not your game. Get over it.

A 'character' should be useful within hours. Let's say under 5 hours.
With a more realistic Carry system, at least anyone can carry stuff for others and move them from the ground/ body to the Mule. They are 'citizens' of a 'node' and can be useful. The game is basically a territory control civ building game 'intertwined' with single player combat and resource management. Meaning it is a WORLD.
Even in combat a level 5 should have some small impact, especially if ranged.

You're just delusional. You've gotten your answers: not your game. not your game. get over it.

game isn't a person. 200+ hours to be useful is a waste of time. waste of time. dogshit. you want to be at the top to support your near-death ego; you can't compete so you spend your lowest value resource: your own time lmao.

"I never felt like I was wasting my time" you never tried being good at anything either huh? You can waste your time going nowhere or at least improve at something.

I'd rather spend 1k hours getting better at something that has some transference to other things in life. Pretty basic. That's why fast-paced games are popular lmao; your reactions and ability to read what you're seeing improves with transferences to real life. Competitive CoD players can see better, they have faster reaction times; they've gained something.
What the fuck will I gain from an MMO where you can't get better at anything for 1000 hours except mind-numbing patience?
Yeah patience is great. OK. Anyone getting better at anything will learn patience though. And you can get better at something while you're gaining 'patience'. What the hell does a 1000 hour basic MMO have other things don't?

At least Ashes has some hybrid combat, resource management, PvP, and trade routes. Will they lean enough into that? I sure hope so.

So what the fuck is your problem with the basic premises of Ashes of Creation? Why are you on a forum for a game you hate and delusionally think will transform into something stale and uncompetitive?

You're the only delusional person here.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani
Why are you talking about trust then describe incompetence.

"They aren't competent. They can't design content to be challenging. I do not like this game, I wanted challenging raid content."

If you don't think they will create a game you want to play then you leave that game; that is the simplest way of describing the whole of it.

Unless you think they are appealing to some larger market or something the developers find very appealing to play themself? Then they are perhaps competent; it just isn't a game you want to play.

Talking about Trust and Community is dramatic slogan headline stuff.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

"They aren't competent. They can't design content to be challenging. I do not like this game, I wanted challenging raid content."

This is just showing your inexperience again

No MMO developer has ever had strong top end content out of the gate. It is when a developer says that they think they have strong top end content and you kill it first pull that you lose all trust in them.

Literally every top end player wanting strong content has to decide whether they trust a specific developer to make that or not. We do not have the luxury of looking at our desired content type to decide, because it literally takes about 3 years of content before developers are really able to get an understanding of player limits.

Invidently, this is while players have heavy use of combat trackers. There is no data on how long this process takes ifnplayers do not have access to combat trackers as this has never occurred (and isnt about to).

If a developer says that they want to have strong top end content, but dont consider the game to have it as yet, you dont then go and complain about the poor top end content - if you trust the developer. You give them feedback about the content they have developed in order to help them get better

I really dont understand your lack of comprehension in regards to this. You talk to literally any subscription service provider (where there are many valid options to chose from), every single one will tell you that trust is key.

Aerlana

Sapiverenus wrote: »

No one wants to wait to have fun. You have nothing better to do and enjoy being at the top by simply wasting your time more than others are willing to, but everyone else wants to simply play the game, improve and enjoy some dynamic gameplay.

When did i said i want to wait to have fun ? i spoke about long term gameplay
You stop after few hours Fine but... as you said yourself

"It's not your game. Get over it."

A good MMORPG, i get fun the first few hours, and progress, enjoy, for 10, 100 1000 and more hours.
But... you focus about being usefull, who said about being usefull ? i never said i needed hundreds hours to be usefull... i said i want to be able to develop the character again and again, for those hours, along years. This is why i enjoy MMORPG. else i have Path of Exile, excellent game to have fast character able to clean all with only small amount of time spent.

Sapiverenus wrote: »

"I never felt like I was wasting my time" you never tried being good at anything either huh? You can waste your time going nowhere or at least improve at something.

I never wasted my time thru my hobby... and for other hobbies, i was good enough for people never understanding why i never gone on competition, or for music, included some group of orchestra...
(The reason is simple : i want each of my hobbies to remain a pure hobby, not try to get money from it, just hobby, enjoyment)

I never wasted my time on my hobbies for a simple reason : i had fun all along (if we take aside when i had to deal with some stupid guild drama... but often it was still fun after)

You never waste your time if you enjoy what you do... So no, i never wasted my time.

Sapiverenus wrote: »

What the fuck will I gain from an MMO where you can't get better at anything for 1000 hours except mind-numbing patience?

Me, i get enjoyment, and fun, as i have with Wolf:ET, binding of isaac, FTL, Vampire Survivor, TWW3, and far more other game i often open again. But also when doing RP thru games (NwN2) or table top, be it Virtual one each friday, or one week a year together at home.

I don't play videogame to be "harder, better, faster, strongher"
I play videogame for enjoyment...
Each of my hobbies, i do them with nothing more... than the time i enjoy thru the hobby with other people.
If in the end i am good or bad ? i don't care, but probably because i do each of them with a real passion... i end in the "good" side

Now, you speak about fast pace... but, MMORPG can be fast paced, don't tell me you didnt know many MMORPG were quite fast paced... oh wait, i forgot you don't know about the genre of video game you are speaking...

Sapiverenus wrote: »

So what the fuck is your problem with the basic premises of Ashes of Creation?

I am perfectly fine with premises, i am not the one who tries to change it.
I am perfectly fine and happy to see Steven says he wants top end PvE being for only a single digit percent.
I am perfectly fine with corruption, siege, caravan.
I am perfectly fine with builds based on 8 archetypes with variants, and hope to have around 50 viable different build at least. (but this, only later stage of development will give answer... )

Where did you see i was on this forum to complain about the project ?

You tried so badly to revert my question you never manage to answer v_v
So bad you manage to again, prove you don't know the subject you are speaking about. (with thinking that all MMORPG have slow fights... )
And with a message which is just full of hate while we are on the forum to politely communicate, share each other mmorpg experiences. no ?

Sorry to say it to you so but "It's not your game. Get over it."

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

"This is just showing your inexperience again

No MMO developer has ever had strong top end content out of the gate. It is when a developer says that they think they have strong top end content and you kill it first pull that you lose all trust in them."

You are trying to pick a fight with nothing to say dipshit.

gtfo

If I was trying to pick a fight with you, I wouldn't be saying things I have said a number of times on these forums, and in other places.

An MMO doesn't start to come in to it's own in terms of top end content until it is about 3 years old - though to be fair, this can be extended to all content types.

This shouldnt even be hard to understand. An MMO is always being added to, a games developer doesnt want to add worse content to an existing game than what is already there. Additionally, developers take a year to understand how players will play their game, a learning curve that cant start until the game is live.

As such, if the developer is competent, the game will always get better for the first few years.

Sapiverenus

Aerlana wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

No one wants to wait to have fun. You have nothing better to do and enjoy being at the top by simply wasting your time more than others are willing to, but everyone else wants to simply play the game, improve and enjoy some dynamic gameplay.

When did i said i want to wait to have fun ? i spoke about long term gameplay
You stop after few hours Fine but... as you said yourself

"It's not your game. Get over it."

A good MMORPG, i get fun the first few hours, and progress, enjoy, for 10, 100 1000 and more hours.
But... you focus about being usefull, who said about being usefull ? i never said i needed hundreds hours to be usefull... i said i want to be able to develop the character again and again, for those hours, along years. This is why i enjoy MMORPG. else i have Path of Exile, excellent game to have fast character able to clean all with only small amount of time spent.

Sapiverenus wrote: »

"I never felt like I was wasting my time" you never tried being good at anything either huh? You can waste your time going nowhere or at least improve at something.

I never wasted my time thru my hobby... and for other hobbies, i was good enough for people never understanding why i never gone on competition, or for music, included some group of orchestra...
(The reason is simple : i want each of my hobbies to remain a pure hobby, not try to get money from it, just hobby, enjoyment)

I never wasted my time on my hobbies for a simple reason : i had fun all along (if we take aside when i had to deal with some stupid guild drama... but often it was still fun after)

You never waste your time if you enjoy what you do... So no, i never wasted my time.

Sapiverenus wrote: »

What the fuck will I gain from an MMO where you can't get better at anything for 1000 hours except mind-numbing patience?

Me, i get enjoyment, and fun, as i have with Wolf:ET, binding of isaac, FTL, Vampire Survivor, TWW3, and far more other game i often open again. But also when doing RP thru games (NwN2) or table top, be it Virtual one each friday, or one week a year together at home.

I don't play videogame to be "harder, better, faster, strongher"
I play videogame for enjoyment...
Each of my hobbies, i do them with nothing more... than the time i enjoy thru the hobby with other people.
If in the end i am good or bad ? i don't care, but probably because i do each of them with a real passion... i end in the "good" side

Now, you speak about fast pace... but, MMORPG can be fast paced, don't tell me you didnt know many MMORPG were quite fast paced... oh wait, i forgot you don't know about the genre of video game you are speaking...

Sapiverenus wrote: »

So what the fuck is your problem with the basic premises of Ashes of Creation?

I am perfectly fine with premises, i am not the one who tries to change it.
I am perfectly fine and happy to see Steven says he wants top end PvE being for only a single digit percent.
I am perfectly fine with corruption, siege, caravan.
I am perfectly fine with builds based on 8 archetypes with variants, and hope to have around 50 viable different build at least. (but this, only later stage of development will give answer... )

Where did you see i was on this forum to complain about the project ?

You tried so badly to revert my question you never manage to answer v_v
So bad you manage to again, prove you don't know the subject you are speaking about. (with thinking that all MMORPG have slow fights... )
And with a message which is just full of hate while we are on the forum to politely communicate, share each other mmorpg experiences. no ?

Sorry to say it to you so but "It's not your game. Get over it."

A good game is fun in the first few hours. At many points you have tried to argue that what I find fun has nothing to do with Ashes of Creation even when it is part of the basic premises and proposed features of the game;
because you don't actually like any of the direction planned for AoC and will try to complain about every additional feature to the game if it has any real 'game changing' impact.

It's a game with civs and new players. People should be able to group and be part of the world early on. You don't want the 'world full of people' part of the game; you want to have your Singleplayer experience with very limited multiplayer dynamics.

You do not want "Massively Multiplayer" in any meaningful way. You want to hollow that premise out like a corpse and sleep in it like the scene from Star Wars with Luke on that Frozen fuckin' planet.

If you don't actually like MMORPGs find a different game or get used to the premises being elaborated upon FFS.
Play a game that is 'safer' and 'less stressful'. I believe that is why you refuse basic competition with anyone for anything.

"Where did you see i was on this forum to complain about the project ?"

Much of what I say are simply elaborations of basic premises and you have complaints.

Get real.

You want a safe game? Don't play a PvX game. Don't play a game with open PvP. Don't play a game with Player Civ vs Civ wars. Don't play a game where Civ-Ending events are triggered by simply playing the game.

You know you're just trying to push your agenda because You don't like the direction the game is heading in; you're not convincing me and you're not convincing whoever you think you need to convince.

KEEP BETTING ON IT THOUGH

"Now you speak of fast-paced. . . oh wait, i forgot you don't know about the genre of video game you are speaking... "

Yeah I'm sure those 1000 hours were like Overwatch, Valorant or CoD on cocaine. Or even Dota 2 and League. Get fuckin' real lmao I make a point about 'self-improvement' being a big part of appeal and you start Virtue Signalling how Devout and Enlightened of a Consumer Hobbyist you are JFC

REMEMBER YOUR SLOGAN: NO COMPROMISES

You have your Agenda: Shitty Singleplayer Time Wasting MMO Almost No One Wants to Compete With You In.

And I have mine: Good MMORPG elaborating upon its basic premises including most or all of those stated by Sharif.

Rethink.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani
Quoting to twist implicit meaning to henpeck and dig; constantly; is your passive-aggressive shtick.

Not reading all of that.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani
Quoting to twist implicit meaning to henpeck and dig; constantly; is your passive-aggressive shtick.

Not reading all of that.

Henpeck is an interesting term for you to use here.

While it has negative connotations (though those connotations are in relation to couples), it is always used in a situation where one person is dominating the other.

The overtones of the term are in relation to nagging and such, but domination is the key element.

Now, you using it combined with your insistence that you are not going to read a post that was only 136 words (719 characters if we include spaces, 186 syllables, only 6 sentences - statistically a 30 second read for the average English speaking adult) long tells me you do indeed feel as if you are being nagged.

The thing is, all I am doing you is explaining basic, fundamental things related to MMO's that you clearly do not understand. Your feeling of being nagged is due to you not wanting to be corrected, because you do not car that you are wrong.

The thing is, this tracks very well with your stance in this thread. You do not care about truth, facts or data in literally anything. You go out of your way to avoid them, and attempt to replace all forms of objective truth with a subjective opinion because - presumably - it makes you feel good.

I'm not saying you should seek professional help with this, but it is indeed a situation that there are professionals to help with.

Edit to add; I am still trying to work out what happened to you ignoring me. I mean, you going as far as to post a statement of fact that you were going to put me on ignore cant have just been for effect, could it?

I can understand that you may not have known how to put someone on ignore when you made the claim that you were to ignore me, but I have since given you instructions on how to ignore someone. You have no excuses left other than the statement was indeed just for effect, rather than being a statement of fact (which, of course, you would never make, because facts).

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani
Go bitch about it to your wife.

I know this may sound crazy, but hear me out.

How about - next time you want to get in to a discussion on a topic with people that understand that topic - perhaps you should learn about said topic before sharing?

This isnt for my sake, or the sake of any other people you may get in to a discussion with - it is simply for your own sake.

You very clearly dont like people rejecting your ideas, and you also seem adverse to altering any idea you have when presented with an obstacle. When this happens, you get all moody, and just start lashing out.

So, for your sake, in order to prevent this happening, wait until your ideas are formed from a base of understanding before sharing them. Learn about the thing you want to talk about. You could even ask those that you may later wish to present your ideas to if you have specific questions on the topic.

You'll be much happier if you do this. Having ideas accepted by others is great, and the way to achieve this is to have great ideas. You cant have a great idea on a topic without actually knowing a LOT about that topic (what others are doing, why they are doing it and how that is working fo them). When all of this comes together though, and you present an idea that is accepted by many, it is worth the effort it took to learn said topic.

This is the inherent power of objective knowledge.

Aerlana

Sapiverenus wrote: »

[insert list of claims, accusations and defamation]

Ok... fine, you did a fine list, now i wait for you to prove i want a single player game (which is false and i have message on this forum to point out i dislike the "singleplayer" turn of recent mmorpg) or any other of your other claims...

I am on ashes of creation forums for a simple thing : want to have the feeling close to the "old good time" even if i know that i was younger, student (which is impactfull on those). And this is the premises of Ashes of Creation.
I won't get this feeling on a survival game, or if i need to smash a button, if my summoner is based on devoring universe and not summoning, and clearly NOT if will come a time the game will delete my character because "why not?" and force me to begin again... this would be similar to seasonnal design, not MMORPG design

And your whole message about "your agenda" and other shit can perfectly apply to you again...

We both want a good game, but we have a real difference in definition of "good game" and it seems that, you can't understand other vue than yours.

i tried to explain you why some ideas could not fit MMORPG or are not happening with this mmorpg to avoid you false hope, but here, trying this was clearly a waste of time because you don't care what other people are saying if it doesn't go the way you want.

Edit : didnt play valorant... also did play overwatch long ago... (before brigitte was added) but i didnt need cocaine to be good at it...

Sapiverenus

@Aerlana

"Old good time"

So you can't see things for what they are? You've told me plenty you want things to be a certain way and are open to nothing that elaborates upon the premises.

You can say everything applies to me "uno reverso", but I'm not clinging to some Return to the Past and simply want the genre and ideas to be elaborated/ worked upon.

Then you and others talk about "when things don't go your way you. . ." but let me give you the uno reverso. When things don't go your way you have nothing to really say that doesn't negatively apply to you because it always boils down to "NOT MY GAME NO WAY NOT GONNA HAPPEN IN MY GAME".

You want to attach all your hopes and dreams on this game to fulfill some nostalgic yearn of yours but I just want the game to be good without the BS emotional baggage.

At the end of the day yall are "NO COMPROMISES" and don't want anyone to even mentally touch your game like some Star Wars in-the-box Figurine.

Vexsin

From my personal experience I only really use DPS meters for myself, as in I like knowing what my top 3 damaging abilities are and what percentage of my damage they make up. I'm not a fan of posting them in group or raid for bragging rights or to shame others. I mostly played a rogue in WoW and DPS meters don't include things like: stunlocking the mob when the tank is low on health and the healer is almost oom, breaking away from the target mob to grab a mob the healer's pulled aggro on, moving away from aoe damage so healers don't have to waste mana on lazy melee dps, and other support actions that DPS classes. There's more to DPS classes than just big numbers. But I would like a means to be able to assess my own playstyle in order to improve it.

Noaani

Vexsin wrote: »

From my personal experience I only really use DPS meters for myself, as in I like knowing what my top 3 damaging abilities are and what percentage of my damage they make up. I'm not a fan of posting them in group or raid for bragging rights or to shame others. I mostly played a rogue in WoW and DPS meters don't include things like: stunlocking the mob when the tank is low on health and the healer is almost oom, breaking away from the target mob to grab a mob the healer's pulled aggro on, moving away from aoe damage so healers don't have to waste mana on lazy melee dps, and other support actions that DPS classes. There's more to DPS classes than just big numbers. But I would like a means to be able to assess my own playstyle in order to improve it.

DPS meters don't include things like that, but a full combat tracker will.

The AoE thing is simple. You look at that ability on the encounter, and everyone that got hit by it didn't move out.

In a number of raids I've run, rather than posting lists of DPS for the fight, I've posted lists of who got hit the least by a given encounter ability (AoE or some such), who cures the most of a specific ailment that we need cured, who heals the most, basically what ever the encounter in question most relies on.

I actually agree with you that something that was literally just a DPS meter would be damn near worthless. A full combat tracker, however, is damn near invaluable.

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