CLASS affect CHARACTER LOOK

Level 50 fighter should look more muscular than a level 1.

Actually one of the reasons I like the idea of 'Exhaustion' in the game is how it can specifically affect the way the player gains stats and changes their appearance. Closer to exhaustion and more often, with more food, the greater muscle gain; since that's how muscle increases.

It should boil down to whether your head is big enough to be a level 50 Wizard, and whether your muscles are big enough to be a level 50 Fighter. Minimum thresholds.

Unarmed fighter? Big hands. Carrying big backpack everywhere with 100 lbs in it? Larger frame.

If you start with an anorexic Fighter or Tank and another person starts with the buffest possible Fighter or Tank; the buffest should become buffer probably through definition and ridiculous levels of buff; while the anorexic person reaches good but not crazy levels of buff.

Haven't eaten in days while hiking marathons with 200 lbs of stuff on? Lose some weight.

Wizard? Big head, facial hair. Ranger? well-rounded and broad back, broad waist too. Rogue? Lean and mean. Darker or more 'charismatic' look. Necromancer? Pale. Cleric? More balanced features I guess. Bard? Warm complexion.

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Comments

Sapiverenus

@TheWolfofGar
No one said the class build is heavily impacted working within appropriate ranges.
I am saying there should be limits to customization but a range should still exist.
If you're referring to racials then yeah that should have an impact. Choose a different race. Cry that you were born as a Dwarf and will never be as nimble a Rogue as a max level Rogue Elf, or play a Mage or something.

Another word for "forcing the meta" is "choosing your class and race". jfc. They're basic decisions you make for yourself. They are obvious and clear. They make sense. Gimp yourself if you really feel so compelled to bleed victimhood everywhere you go.

Tall Rogues can simply squat lower or crawl if they need to hide in some grasses. They might blend into a tree better.

You're exaggerating some things here.

A tough Dwarf Rogue has some use; figure out its use.

Surviving AoE? OK. Surviving someone's Burst? OK. Within a limited scope they already have some use.

Something else good about being a Dwarf? Crafting?

I think a Dwarf Rogue should become a bit lankier, shorter torso perhaps, by level 50 if they aren't already customized that way. In fact, it should go beyond the limited ranges of the character creator; the changes that come from Progressing as a Rogue.

If you want a soft-lock on customization then take the temporary low-level Gimp then transform into a lanky shadowy bearded short fellow.

When you're a level 50 something you should appear ARCHETYPICAL

TheDarkSorcerer

It's a hard NO from me. This type of feature belongs in a RPG, not an MMO where you heavily invest thousands of dollar$ over the years into your characters looks and appearance to get it exactly the way you want.

GrandHarfang

Why are you trying so hard to make Ashes a shit game? This game is clearly not meant for you.

TheWolfofGar

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@TheWolfofGar
Another word for "forcing the meta" is "choosing your class and race". jfc. They're basic decisions you make for yourself. They are obvious and clear. They make sense. Gimp yourself if you really feel so compelled to bleed victimhood everywhere you go.

You simply do not have a free choice if the system you want is implemented, your last statement exemplifies this even if you keep pretending it doesn't, your choice is conform to the dev built meta or "Gimp yourself. That isn't a choice.

Sapiverenus wrote: »

I think a Dwarf Rogue should become a bit lankier, shorter torso perhaps, by level 50 if they aren't already customized that way. In fact, it should go beyond the limited ranges of the character creator; the changes that come from Progressing as a Rogue.

If you want a soft-lock on customization then take the temporary low-level Gimp then transform into a lanky shadowy bearded short fellow.

When you're a level 50 something you should appear ARCHETYPICAL

Honestly the more you go the more inane the idea seems. No I do not want a soft-lock on character customization, I do not want a low-level gimp to transform, and if I did create a character that looks gimped I wouldn't want them to suddenly start looking differently outside of my control. I'm all for unlocking cosmetic items like hairstyles or tattoos / scars based on in game achievements. Developers changing my character is and will continue to be a bad idea.

Aerlana

The lore of Vera (world of Ashes of creation) comes from a pathfinder campaign right ?

So the Lore is deeply inspired by pathfinder... right ?

There, comes the problem about "archetypal" for magic... "mage" speaks often about magicien and... sorcerer. main difference being one is based on intelligence, other on... charisma (intuitiv spellcaster)

in another way to say it : we don't know how the magic work in the case of vera (inspired does not avoid to have lot of change) but "intuitiv magic" not being based on INT but CHA is really a thing...

Charisma being not really on the "skin" but also lot thru global behaviour, how to speak...
Or you would say that the higher level the female inuitiv mage is, the bigger her cup is ? :-°

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

The beard thing is somewhat of a joke but there's a reason people look the way they do and for the physical traits tied to Physical classes there is ample evidence, experience, and basic reasoning to determine it; it is easy to assess.

So, here's the problem.

You are talking about generalizations, and suggesting that the game force these on to everyone. The problem with this (even just in real life) is that there are always exceptions.

In the scientific world (the closest analogy to magic users if magic is research/intellect based), we obviously have Einstein. The thing is, we also have a Oliver Sacks - a Neurologist, who happened to also be a bit of a body builder.

Now sure, Oliver grew a bit of a beard in later life, but then we could also look at Professor Brian Cox. Do an image search of him and tell me how he fits in with forcing a look on characters based on class.

Even in sports this doesnt work. Sure, basketball has people like Shaq, and Tacko Fall, but it also has/had people like Muggsy Bouges - 5'3", and played 14 seasons.

The problem with generalizations is that there are always exceptions. People PREFER to play as these exceptions rather than the generalization, so forcing that generalization on to people will never go well.

BaSkA_9x2

GrandHarfang wrote: »

Why are you trying so hard to make Ashes a shit game? This game is clearly not meant for you.

That's actually good because then the devs, or anyone really, are actually able to see how many shit ideas exist and that not every player/player type needs to be catered to.

Sapiverenus

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

It's a hard NO from me. This type of feature belongs in a RPG, not an MMO where you heavily invest thousands of dollar$ over the years into your characters looks and appearance to get it exactly the way you want.

WoW player? Cash whale?

TheWolfofGar wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@TheWolfofGar
Another word for "forcing the meta" is "choosing your class and race". jfc. They're basic decisions you make for yourself. They are obvious and clear. They make sense. Gimp yourself if you really feel so compelled to bleed victimhood everywhere you go.

You simply do not have a free choice if the system you want is implemented, your last statement exemplifies this even if you keep pretending it doesn't, your choice is conform to the dev built meta or "Gimp yourself. That isn't a choice.

Sapiverenus wrote: »

I think a Dwarf Rogue should become a bit lankier, shorter torso perhaps, by level 50 if they aren't already customized that way. In fact, it should go beyond the limited ranges of the character creator; the changes that come from Progressing as a Rogue.

If you want a soft-lock on customization then take the temporary low-level Gimp then transform into a lanky shadowy bearded short fellow.

When you're a level 50 something you should appear ARCHETYPICAL

Honestly the more you go the more inane the idea seems. No I do not want a soft-lock on character customization, I do not want a low-level gimp to transform, and if I did create a character that looks gimped I wouldn't want them to suddenly start looking differently outside of my control. I'm all for unlocking cosmetic items like hairstyles or tattoos / scars based on in game achievements. Developers changing my character is and will continue to be a bad idea.

You start with no character then let a dev give you choices; and then let yourself play a game entirely made by, balanced by, planned by, filled with features by, the dev. You let the dev kill your character. The dev decides difficulty, and how powerful your class is. You let the dev decide what is available to your character. You are given the character by the dev.

And most MMOs before this did not have much of any customization yet people talk about "ruining the game". Clearly no one gave a shit when they dumped 1000 hours into Runescape, Everquest, WoW, et cetera.

Most people don't care about playing Barbie's Dressup or whatever.

@Aerlana
Whatever makes sense

@BaSkA13
Same can be said to you.
But at the end of the day Sharif is not God and God does not give a shit if you jump into a septic tank and go wild with excitement; nothing cares if a Good or Shit game is made or whether you gleefully eat Shit or Dirt.

Or whether you rage and become abyssmally depressed because Sharif doesn't make the game you want.

Whatever is made, I have better uses of my time.

Hakunamatata

Taleof2Cities

Let's recap some of the early replies in this thread:

Noaani wrote: »

All of this is simply another case of "perfectly fine idea, for a different game".

daveywavey wrote: »

So, we spend all that time in the Character Creator, making our character look exactly how we want, and then it changes once we're levelled up? Sounds kinda sucky.

Sapiverenus

@Taleof2Cities

If you work out in real life and everything including your face changes, are you going to complain because you love to be miserable for your warped Ego's sake, and would have to confront the reality that you are mentally and were physically flawed if you decide to change and appreciate the changes?

Or just appreciate the changes?

Priorities. Maturity.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Taleof2Cities

If you work out in real life and everything including your face changes, are you going to complain because you love to be miserable for your warped Ego's sake, and would have to confront the reality that you are mentally and were physically flawed if you appreciate the change?

Or just appreciate the changes?

Priorities. Maturity.

How in hell does this make any sense in the context of a wizard having a big head?

More to the point, why is it that an unarmed fighter gets bigger hands, but a wizard can't perform basic exercises to achieve the same result?

Sapiverenus

@Noaani
Who said they can't?
As you probably know I support soft-locking and On Use XP for Attributes and Skills with Class [and Race] affecting soft-lock.

There's still room for customization between level 50s of the same race and class though. A preview of your character at level 50 [typical progression] with a range to mess with sounds good to me.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Noaani
Who said they can't?
As you probably know I support soft-locking and On Use XP for Attributes and Skills with Class [and Race] affecting soft-lock.

There's still room for customization between level 50s of the same race and class though. A preview of your character at level 50 [typical progression] with a range to mess with sounds good to me.

OK, so, this customization doesn't need to be class based.

If we go back to my earlier post where I mentioned Muggsy Bouges, it also shouldn't be a case of automatically gaining a specific attribute based on your class or how you are using your character (a tank doesn't need to be big and bulky, just as an NBA player like Muggsy can be 5'3" and still play for 14 seasons).

We are also saying there is customization within the system.

So, what we basically have now is a few sliders in the character creator that can be accessed later on in the game.

I fully support that - as I am sure most people would.

Sapiverenus

Beginning and End of the game. Given the same attributes there can be variability.

Class can determine what is time-efficient to progress in in terms of Attribute and various Skills, but I don't think the game would have strong direction with every ability accessible to everyone.

Soft lock can be extreme as well, ramping up the more off-meta it is.

5'3 and basically advantageous leverages makes nimbleness a lot easier.
If he had to wear a 20 lb weight vest at all times and use a 1.5 lb basketball he'd probably gain a lot of muscle within the year.
I assume the 200 lbs of stuff people carry and whatever weapon they swing around counts as physically demanding to strength, endurance, constitution, as well as agility given the mobility that combat demands. . . all the travelling, jumping around people like to do. . . so on and so forth.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Beginning and End of the game. Given the same attributes there can be variability.

There can be, but there doesn't have to be.

As a tank, I could wear leather armor in order to be more mobile (in terms of gameplay advantage), and have all my heavy gear loaded on to a mule.

As a mage, I could wear heavy armor in order to help protect me against physical damage.

In this situation, the mage would gain the muscle, the tank would not.

That is why this straight up doesn't work as being a class based thing - if the goal is to add some sort of realism.

Sapiverenus

It works just fine.

If we keep with the normal XP on Kill and gain attributes based on Class and Level. . . then the original system I propose still works and there can still be somewhat muscular mages; but Fighters and Tanks would be pretty hulking at level 50 or otherwise incredibly 'ripped' with good stature.

People have to focus on something to improve at it. It's suspension of disbelief or a deep realistic system. There can be moderations, customizations, and game balancing either way.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

People have to focus on something to improve at it.

Yes, they do. However, a fighter isn't focusing on bulking out to become "ripped" or "hulking". They are as focused on technique.

I mean, an average MMA fighter could be considered a "fighter" in Ashes, but so too could a sumo wrestler.

And literally none of this has anything to do with wizards getting big heads.

Sapiverenus

Big heads from intracranial pressure and brain building. Not sure what aligns best with that but it should go somewhere.

Not a big deal; changes can be more nuanced and otherwise case-by-case wherever it makes sense.

Chess grandmasters in a tournament tend to have similar blood pressure to those during physical exercise. They also tend to have big heads.

So it makes sense that the more brain. . . the more brain. and intracranial pressure from exertion for a bigger head as well so gotta give Fighter and Tank larger heads appropriate to their body size. Of course jaw changes and facial reconstruction occurs as a result too. . .

Reality be what it is.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Big heads from intracranial pressure and brain building. Not sure what aligns best with that but it should go somewhere.

Not a big deal; changes can be more nuanced and otherwise case-by-case wherever it makes sense.

Chess grandmasters in a tournament tend to have similar blood pressure to those during physical exercise. They also tend to have big heads.

So it makes sense that the more brain. . . the more brain. and intracranial pressure from exertion for a bigger head as well so gotta give Fighter and Tank larger heads appropriate to their body size. Of course jaw changes and facial reconstruction occurs as a result too. . .

Reality be what it is.

Are you making generalizations about macrocephaly?

Sapiverenus

@Noaani
no

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