Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Looking at training for that information and fighting someone are vastly two different stories. You could know all the information and if I control the fight it won't amount to much. No one said this isn't the case. However, knowing that information is a step in the process to getting better. Having objective data doesn't automatically make you better. This does seem to be a thing you think is the case in MMO's - the number of times you've said that people don't want to spend the time to get better. It is as if you think looking at a combat tracker will automatically make you better. It doesn't, it still takes a lot of actual gameplay to put what you work out in a combat tracker to good use. You already get information from the game, you have a combat log. You don't need a tracker.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Looking at training for that information and fighting someone are vastly two different stories. You could know all the information and if I control the fight it won't amount to much. No one said this isn't the case. However, knowing that information is a step in the process to getting better. Having objective data doesn't automatically make you better. This does seem to be a thing you think is the case in MMO's - the number of times you've said that people don't want to spend the time to get better. It is as if you think looking at a combat tracker will automatically make you better. It doesn't, it still takes a lot of actual gameplay to put what you work out in a combat tracker to good use.
Mag7spy wrote: » Looking at training for that information and fighting someone are vastly two different stories. You could know all the information and if I control the fight it won't amount to much.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I care because you shouldn't be reading information from mobs or players by way of a tracker. You should have to figure that stuff on your own and use your own skill and knowledge, rather than looking for a "tool" to potentially make your discovery of information easier. How do I figure it out on my own? Kill the mob a few times. How do you think I figure it out with a tracker? Mag7spy wrote: » I care because what you want is trackers in the game to read other players My suggestion is to literally limit trackers from what will be available to players without Intrepid stepping in. I am trying to stop the thing you are claiming is much worse - even though I don't believe it is. I am literally trying to stop it to stop people like you whining about it, and you are here whining about me trying to stop it. I do have to wonder how you're going to feel during beta when I pull out a combat tracker and use it on someone that isn't even grouped with me. At least you get to tell everyone that you had a small part to play in making that a reality.
Mag7spy wrote: » I care because you shouldn't be reading information from mobs or players by way of a tracker. You should have to figure that stuff on your own and use your own skill and knowledge, rather than looking for a "tool" to potentially make your discovery of information easier.
Mag7spy wrote: » I care because what you want is trackers in the game to read other players
Mag7spy wrote: » You already get information from the game, you have a combat log. You don't need a tracker.
MrPockets wrote: » I feel like I've explained this multiple times, but it is never acknowledged... I don't think most of us care (except sap I guess) if you have a tracker or not...but we do care when the average players do. More often than not, the average player will abuse/misuse a tool like this, leading to more people not enjoying their time with the game. The main argument I can see to not want the top end players using trackers...is that they will influence the average players to think that this tool is required to play the game in general (not just top end fights). I think this is what Mag is talking about when he claims you can't see the other perspectives. (correct me if I am wrong Mag7spy )
MrPockets wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » No point was proven all both you can do is assume things on people because you don't care what other people think you you deem you can convince them. This is not true. I have no intention at all of trying to convince anyone that doesn't use a tracker that they should use one. What I am doing - what I have always been doing - is pointing out to people that if they don't have a tracker and I do, they don't really need to concern themselves with it at all. It literally doesn't impact on them at all. This is one of many aspects that you have failed to explain. If I have a tracker and you do not, why would you care? I feel like I've explained this multiple times, but it is never acknowledged... I don't think most of us care (except sap I guess) if you have a tracker or not...but we do care when the average players do. More often than not, the average player will abuse/misuse a tool like this, leading to more people not enjoying their time with the game. The main argument I can see to not want the top end players using trackers...is that they will influence the average players to think that this tool is required to play the game in general (not just top end fights). I think this is what Mag is talking about when he claims you can't see the other perspectives. (correct me if I am wrong @Mag7spy )
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » No point was proven all both you can do is assume things on people because you don't care what other people think you you deem you can convince them. This is not true. I have no intention at all of trying to convince anyone that doesn't use a tracker that they should use one. What I am doing - what I have always been doing - is pointing out to people that if they don't have a tracker and I do, they don't really need to concern themselves with it at all. It literally doesn't impact on them at all. This is one of many aspects that you have failed to explain. If I have a tracker and you do not, why would you care?
Mag7spy wrote: » No point was proven all both you can do is assume things on people because you don't care what other people think you you deem you can convince them.
Mag7spy wrote: » No because the moment trackers are in the game it is far worst in formation gained and gives reason to further improve third party trackers and have more features in them
Mag7spy wrote: » Like if someone is like we have a gap here where we can heal because this doesn't happen as often from tracker knowledge. But the boss is like "And?" and it doesn't matter if they know but aren't skilled enough to do the content from the action element side of combat.
Aerlana wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You already get information from the game, you have a combat log. You don't need a tracker. We answered this : we don't want to have to spend hours to make log a readible way thru taking each line into a spreadsheet... I dont care that the 5 time i hit i did 43, 44, 45, 48 and 88 damage, with a 20% crit rate on this mob... I care about 1000 or more hits The first information is inacurate and so not exploitable, 1000 hit begins to be accurate
Noaani wrote: » MrPockets wrote: » I feel like I've explained this multiple times, but it is never acknowledged... I don't think most of us care (except sap I guess) if you have a tracker or not...but we do care when the average players do. More often than not, the average player will abuse/misuse a tool like this, leading to more people not enjoying their time with the game. The main argument I can see to not want the top end players using trackers...is that they will influence the average players to think that this tool is required to play the game in general (not just top end fights). I think this is what Mag is talking about when he claims you can't see the other perspectives. (correct me if I am wrong Mag7spy ) So, the suggestion I have been making for about 150 of the 170 pages of this thread is for a guild only tracker. This means that when you are in a guild, if that guild opts to take a tracker as a perk (in place of other options), then you have access to said tracker. That tracker then only works on members of that one guild. This means that you can only ever track people that are in your guild, and can only ever be tracked by people that are in your guild. If you are in a guild with someone that misuses a tracker in the way you are concerned about, then you are in a guild with someone that would be a dick anyone. In that case, you either remove that dick from the guild, or you leave the guild - not because of the tracker, but because of the dick.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » No because the moment trackers are in the game it is far worst in formation gained and gives reason to further improve third party trackers and have more features in them If a first party tracker exists for the game, third party trackers will not. You do not have the emotional maturity for me to explain this to you, but I have explained it to a number of people privately.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Looking at training for that information and fighting someone are vastly two different stories. You could know all the information and if I control the fight it won't amount to much. No one said this isn't the case. However, knowing that information is a step in the process to getting better. Having objective data doesn't automatically make you better. This does seem to be a thing you think is the case in MMO's - the number of times you've said that people don't want to spend the time to get better. It is as if you think looking at a combat tracker will automatically make you better. It doesn't, it still takes a lot of actual gameplay to put what you work out in a combat tracker to good use. You already get information from the game, you have a combat log. You don't need a tracker. If you do not want people to have a Tracker you cannot give them a Combat Log that gives them information.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Looking at training for that information and fighting someone are vastly two different stories. You could know all the information and if I control the fight it won't amount to much. No one said this isn't the case. However, knowing that information is a step in the process to getting better. Having objective data doesn't automatically make you better. This does seem to be a thing you think is the case in MMO's - the number of times you've said that people don't want to spend the time to get better. It is as if you think looking at a combat tracker will automatically make you better. It doesn't, it still takes a lot of actual gameplay to put what you work out in a combat tracker to good use. You already get information from the game, you have a combat log. You don't need a tracker. If you do not want people to have a Tracker you cannot give them a Combat Log that gives them information. Combat log is fine, as long as you aren't getting information from other players in that combat log around you.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Looking at training for that information and fighting someone are vastly two different stories. You could know all the information and if I control the fight it won't amount to much. No one said this isn't the case. However, knowing that information is a step in the process to getting better. Having objective data doesn't automatically make you better. This does seem to be a thing you think is the case in MMO's - the number of times you've said that people don't want to spend the time to get better. It is as if you think looking at a combat tracker will automatically make you better. It doesn't, it still takes a lot of actual gameplay to put what you work out in a combat tracker to good use. You already get information from the game, you have a combat log. You don't need a tracker. If you do not want people to have a Tracker you cannot give them a Combat Log that gives them information. Combat log is fine, as long as you aren't getting information from other players in that combat log around you. So a Combat Log that doesn't tell me how much damage my raid members do, or how much damage they take?
Aerlana wrote: » ... If personanl combat log exist, you understand that all toxic behaviour you complain will exist ?
Mag7spy wrote: » You fail to understand the most basic of points....you literarily only care about what you want. You don't think for a second how in game trackers will effect other players but what they think isn't a concern to you. When it comes to that very certain point, or maybe just you in general tbh.
