Aerlana wrote: » Lot of people wants (and some uses) a tracker for Lost Ark, no tab targetting... Oh and the theorycraft community is really activ and does a lot of data analysis... there are statistics, and we are able to know if a hit land or not, there are lifebar, etc etc. Same informations as we will have for ashes of creation. Why do you think "action" does not allow data analysis ? Lets speak about hollow knight, no number showed, no "tab targetting" and still... people knows all numbers on it. . . Or souls game, people know damages they can do to bosses with each build, each weapon. No tab targetting again... Do i have to give example of "non tab targetting with data analysis" ? You can do data analysis on ANY game ... including a mario game... you don't need to collect all coins, just need to know how many you need. And lets consider you are right... and so tracker are useless for ashes of creation as you say. Fine... so where is the problem to have one, as guildperk... people using it will spend time on watching useless thing, this is their problem no ? I will spend time roleplaying on ashes, which will makes me win no level, gather no ressources, or what else... So having people have useless timespent on the game is not a problem right ?
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You shouldn't be able to copy paste your log, or store it in a text format. It would take 30 minutes to find an appropriate text recognition software from Github and point it to your combat log - then point ACT to the file it creates. Package this up in to a one click solution, have it connect to a server, break the server off in to groups (ie, when you join a group in game, you automatically join the log group on this server). This server combines the logs from all players in the group, and spits out a combined log to run in ACT. With this setup, you can even have it so that you get a notification if you are going to invite someone to your group that isn't logged in to this server, so that you know not to invite them. This means the discussion as to whether they are using this or not doesn't need to even happen in game, and those not using it will just find that they don't get as many invites to content. I'm assuming this does this as you are playing? You put in their name into the system before you invite them. This doesn't interact with the game. If you find no logs for the person in the system, you just don't invite them. This is what happens in FFXIV.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You shouldn't be able to copy paste your log, or store it in a text format. It would take 30 minutes to find an appropriate text recognition software from Github and point it to your combat log - then point ACT to the file it creates. Package this up in to a one click solution, have it connect to a server, break the server off in to groups (ie, when you join a group in game, you automatically join the log group on this server). This server combines the logs from all players in the group, and spits out a combined log to run in ACT. With this setup, you can even have it so that you get a notification if you are going to invite someone to your group that isn't logged in to this server, so that you know not to invite them. This means the discussion as to whether they are using this or not doesn't need to even happen in game, and those not using it will just find that they don't get as many invites to content. I'm assuming this does this as you are playing?
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You shouldn't be able to copy paste your log, or store it in a text format. It would take 30 minutes to find an appropriate text recognition software from Github and point it to your combat log - then point ACT to the file it creates. Package this up in to a one click solution, have it connect to a server, break the server off in to groups (ie, when you join a group in game, you automatically join the log group on this server). This server combines the logs from all players in the group, and spits out a combined log to run in ACT. With this setup, you can even have it so that you get a notification if you are going to invite someone to your group that isn't logged in to this server, so that you know not to invite them. This means the discussion as to whether they are using this or not doesn't need to even happen in game, and those not using it will just find that they don't get as many invites to content.
Mag7spy wrote: » You shouldn't be able to copy paste your log, or store it in a text format.
MrPockets wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Catering to the single digit of people that do raids and want them to be difficult and have trackers is not going to sustain a mmorpg. Making a good game with good gameplay loops, replayability, fun pvp, Politic driven pvp and territory control, good pve, good content overall, not destroyed by bugs WILL make a mmorpg with a community that will sustain itself. Exactly what I was thinking. Catering to top end players is not required to make a successful game. There is SO much more to this game than PvE, I would rather they focus on all of those parts being good, instead of a tracker.
Mag7spy wrote: » Catering to the single digit of people that do raids and want them to be difficult and have trackers is not going to sustain a mmorpg. Making a good game with good gameplay loops, replayability, fun pvp, Politic driven pvp and territory control, good pve, good content overall, not destroyed by bugs WILL make a mmorpg with a community that will sustain itself.
Mag7spy wrote: » Catering to the single digit of people that do raids and want them to be difficult and have trackers is not going to sustain a mmorpg.
Making a good game with good gameplay loops, replayability, fun pvp, Politic driven pvp and territory control, good pve, good content overall, not destroyed by bugs WILL make a mmorpg with a community that will sustain itself.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You shouldn't be able to copy paste your log, or store it in a text format. It would take 30 minutes to find an appropriate text recognition software from Github and point it to your combat log - then point ACT to the file it creates. Package this up in to a one click solution, have it connect to a server, break the server off in to groups (ie, when you join a group in game, you automatically join the log group on this server). This server combines the logs from all players in the group, and spits out a combined log to run in ACT. With this setup, you can even have it so that you get a notification if you are going to invite someone to your group that isn't logged in to this server, so that you know not to invite them. This means the discussion as to whether they are using this or not doesn't need to even happen in game, and those not using it will just find that they don't get as many invites to content. I'm assuming this does this as you are playing? You put in their name into the system before you invite them. This doesn't interact with the game. If you find no logs for the person in the system, you just don't invite them. This is what happens in FFXIV. I mean like can this read your log real time while you are playing the game is my question?
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » So if they want trackers to be not as useful they simply need to make the game more difficult and have a decent and fair learning curve with a high skill ceiling. That doesn't make trackers less useful though. It doesn't make them more useful either. It basically just leaves them exactly where they are. As it stands, the correct use of a tracker to improve yourself in a game is that you determine where you are before you work on improving - you use a tracker to do this. Then you, well, you work on getting better. Then you use a tracker to compare where you were when you started with where you are after having worked to get better some. I fail to see how a higher skill ceiling changes any of this.
Mag7spy wrote: » So if they want trackers to be not as useful they simply need to make the game more difficult and have a decent and fair learning curve with a high skill ceiling.
MrPockets wrote: » at this point you will either like the PvE or not...why keep this thread alive? (I know you are not the only one, but we could all just stop. lol)
Sapiverenus wrote: » the Big Point of it is that people that rely on trackers are not fun or engaging players, looking for ways to make the game easier for themself, and those that create and use them tend to create bots & scripts or approve of them.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Catering to the single digit of people that do raids and want them to be difficult and have trackers is not going to sustain a mmorpg. Combat trackers do not only cater to raiders. They cater to anyone that wants to be better. In terms of their usefulness in regards to content (as opposed to their usefulness in regards to player build, player improvement or game system research), they are only really of use on harder content. However, I would like to see some group content in Ashes that is hard. Making a good game with good gameplay loops, replayability, fun pvp, Politic driven pvp and territory control, good pve, good content overall, not destroyed by bugs WILL make a mmorpg with a community that will sustain itself. I agree. The thing is, a combat tracker is an essential tool for good PvE.
Sapiverenus wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » So if they want trackers to be not as useful they simply need to make the game more difficult and have a decent and fair learning curve with a high skill ceiling. That doesn't make trackers less useful though. It doesn't make them more useful either. It basically just leaves them exactly where they are. As it stands, the correct use of a tracker to improve yourself in a game is that you determine where you are before you work on improving - you use a tracker to do this. Then you, well, you work on getting better. Then you use a tracker to compare where you were when you started with where you are after having worked to get better some. I fail to see how a higher skill ceiling changes any of this. you just played the game you know where you are you just want to avoid the work of improving because reading logs is easier than struggling in-game
Aerlana wrote: » we speak about people who want to perform, to be efficient, to do high end content the skill is not a problem, progressing, improving is a problem. You speak based on midtier rank player while we speak about high tier rank... the "they don't have skill so will fail" is not an issue for top end, if they reach over the 90% efficiency it is because they have the skill for it... It is reaching "master" in game with such system : all have skill, but grandmaster have skill and deep knowledge about numbers...
Mag7spy wrote: » it is not a essential tool for good PVE. Anything in pve you can do without the tool...It simply gives you a short cut to need to use more tiem to explore and figure things out and more quickly get your answer.
Sapiverenus wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » we speak about people who want to perform, to be efficient, to do high end content the skill is not a problem, progressing, improving is a problem. You speak based on midtier rank player while we speak about high tier rank... the "they don't have skill so will fail" is not an issue for top end, if they reach over the 90% efficiency it is because they have the skill for it... It is reaching "master" in game with such system : all have skill, but grandmaster have skill and deep knowledge about numbers... You want old style MMO, want Tab, say my suggestions are "hardcore" and "not ashes of creation" yet talk about skill and grandmasters LMAO
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You shouldn't be able to copy paste your log, or store it in a text format. It would take 30 minutes to find an appropriate text recognition software from Github and point it to your combat log - then point ACT to the file it creates. Package this up in to a one click solution, have it connect to a server, break the server off in to groups (ie, when you join a group in game, you automatically join the log group on this server). This server combines the logs from all players in the group, and spits out a combined log to run in ACT. With this setup, you can even have it so that you get a notification if you are going to invite someone to your group that isn't logged in to this server, so that you know not to invite them. This means the discussion as to whether they are using this or not doesn't need to even happen in game, and those not using it will just find that they don't get as many invites to content. I'm assuming this does this as you are playing? You put in their name into the system before you invite them. This doesn't interact with the game. If you find no logs for the person in the system, you just don't invite them. This is what happens in FFXIV. I mean like can this read your log real time while you are playing the game is my question? It's been explained a few times that no one cares about realtime logs at the level we are talking about BUT. Yes, it can. And it does not do this by interacting with the game client, it does this by recording the gameplay OR a more convoluted method that is basically also recording gameplay but isn't detectable (because it's too customizable to detect)
Noaani wrote: » Sapiverenus wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » we speak about people who want to perform, to be efficient, to do high end content the skill is not a problem, progressing, improving is a problem. You speak based on midtier rank player while we speak about high tier rank... the "they don't have skill so will fail" is not an issue for top end, if they reach over the 90% efficiency it is because they have the skill for it... It is reaching "master" in game with such system : all have skill, but grandmaster have skill and deep knowledge about numbers... You want old style MMO, want Tab, say my suggestions are "hardcore" and "not ashes of creation" yet talk about skill and grandmasters LMAO Yeah, someone wanting an old style MMO probably shouldn't bother with a game that literally had the promotional tagline "Make MMO's Great Again". LMAO indeed.
Mag7spy wrote: » But this is getting into the much smaller subset of people doing it rather than the norm.
Azherae wrote: » Sapiverenus wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » we speak about people who want to perform, to be efficient, to do high end content the skill is not a problem, progressing, improving is a problem. You speak based on midtier rank player while we speak about high tier rank... the "they don't have skill so will fail" is not an issue for top end, if they reach over the 90% efficiency it is because they have the skill for it... It is reaching "master" in game with such system : all have skill, but grandmaster have skill and deep knowledge about numbers... You want old style MMO, want Tab, say my suggestions are "hardcore" and "not ashes of creation" yet talk about skill and grandmasters LMAO We already understand that you are absolutely willing to insult Steven's team, Steven's Vision, and technically Steven himself. We are having this conversation using the 'limitations' of avoiding those things though. Steven says "I don't want Trackers, but I also want an MMO with a Combat Log and Tab Target as a somewhat viable playstyle." And all we are doing is saying 'Uh... Steven, that doesn't work, how about trying this instead...' You going "Steven your vision sucks there's no real skill in it lol change it and make sure there's no Trackers" is fine, but the point is we're not even trying to have the same conversation at that point.
Mag7spy wrote: » I was going to comment on this about old mmorpg combat, but ill just link this.
