OnyStyle wrote: » @Mag7spy I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread.
Mag7spy wrote: » OnyStyle wrote: » @Mag7spy I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread. I read your original point and I don't agree with it. People have said you should plan your time accordingly. That means if you are exploring a new area there will be plenty to do on the way there. And when you get there you have your content to do there. By your point you are effectively suggesting that you do nothing on your way to point a-b. Which would mean you are ignoring the content in the world or to explore on your way there. If the game design has you running 30 min every time (in a loop constantly back and forth) without anything else to do then maybe you can make this point.
OnyStyle wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » OnyStyle wrote: » @Mag7spy I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread. I read your original point and I don't agree with it. People have said you should plan your time accordingly. That means if you are exploring a new area there will be plenty to do on the way there. And when you get there you have your content to do there. By your point you are effectively suggesting that you do nothing on your way to point a-b. Which would mean you are ignoring the content in the world or to explore on your way there. If the game design has you running 30 min every time (in a loop constantly back and forth) without anything else to do then maybe you can make this point. So to your point, I agree that people should be planning. With that being said a 20 minute trip is nothing to sneeze at. At the start of the game, there will be plenty of things to explore and that 20 minute trip can turn into a 4+ hour excursion on a bunch of fun stuff! And I absolutely love that. But after you have explored the region, know what's happening, etc, you just want to get your shit done and leave. I am also totally open to the idea that you have to travel to a place on foot before using any of these systems. But don't be fooled into thinking that every trip will always lead to those exciting excursions. Additionally, as of current design there will supposedly be some sort of taxi system that you can go afk on to get to other nodes. So the only difference between what I am activating for and what is already in place is it to take place faster. Had the world been smaller like the original design, it wouldn't be an issue. But now that it's bigger I believe it is a new issue.
OnyStyle wrote: » @George_Black How laughably false. If you don't think forums are a place to discuss potential flaws then stay out of such threads. You are completely wrong in both what I expect out of aoc and what I am used to. If you want to disagree, put forth an actual reason on why you think my suggestion is bad. Or don't. But if you are, be respectful.@Mag7spy I actually am against autopathing. I think it takes away from immersion. I also do not want less content, I don't know where you got that from. Heck the only proposed solution I had was airship travel between metropolises. That would be the exact same amount of content. I would also be happy with higher density like in previous design.
OnyStyle wrote: » @Mag7spy You...think the previous map was small? Whelp guess we would have to disagree there. When I played the alpha 1, which was a small portion of the original map size, I already thought it was quite large. Probably large enough for 2k people for it to feel populated outside of cities.
OnyStyle wrote: » Natasha Yes. I will be slower. I would be slower even with faster travel time. So what?
Mag7spy wrote: » You aren't going to know who to talk to since you won't be able to interact with anyone since you are trying to rely on extremely old school methods with "say + yell" as options. You are effectively forcing people to use discords and get out of the game to chat with people. If there is no global chat I'll be forced to use discords for information on the server. Id rather do everything in game since ill be running a large guild.
OnyStyle wrote: » Big fights are super cool and such clashes are something I look forward to. If you think a 20 minute travel time doesn't feel like a big decision, I think we value our own time very differently. Sure does 40 minutes (ONE WAY) feel like a bigger decision, yeah, but at that point I'll just spend my limited playtime a day on a game that actually respects my time.
NiKr wrote: » I'm also planning on talking mainly in my node's chat instead of discord. I wanna be a mayor and provide people with company in-game and not in a 3rd party app. And this is exactly why I don't want global chat. There's no feeling of tightknit community if you can always talk to someone across the world. And the game is supposedly all about those kinds of communities.
OnyStyle wrote: » NiKr wrote: » perryuppal wrote: » With that in mind, it is completely understandable and expected that hardcore players still be accomodated. Of course, there will be content that is strictly geared to that playerbase, which is perfectly fine. There SHOULD be content that only the top X% of players can do and content that the hardcore grinders want to do. Games need hardcore players as well as casual players to thrive. The problem being discussed, however, is part of the core gameplay loop that every player will experience. Once casual players like the average video game player sees how much of a percentage of their play time is dedicated solely to traveling and not engaging in content, they very likely will leave. In addition, potential new players that see how much of a slog they have ahead of them will cancel their subscription after a month or so. You know that this game is owpvp, right? So in that context you gotta realize that your suggestion of "anyone can reach any place on the map within 20 minutes" will just mean that any zerg or strong group of players will be able to go to the same places you want to go to, except they can just run over you and your friends and you'll never experience that content in the first place. While with meaningful travel time, your local node might have good content (or you moved to a node with one) and there's only one or two local strong groups that can farm that place instead of 20 from the entire server. And if you're talking about casual content, that shit's supposed to be on every corner of the world due to how Node's progression and design works. The game is designed with a player anchor. Your node is your home and you're meant to work on its improvement. If all you do is just travel every day - your node will die off. At which point you've failed at the most important part of the game, because you were too selfish and wanted to farm your own content instead of what your node (or the vassal system that you live in) presented you with. This is a different style of game, targeted at a particular audience. Will that audience be way smaller than smth like WoW or FF14 have? Of course. Do Steven and Intrepid know that and still continue to develop the game in that manner? Also of course. And this is why people on this forum (who're here exactly because they support the current vision of the game) are against your suggestion. Traveling between large distances makes battling zergs easier. In fact, if travel remains super slow, then zergs will be near unstoppable. Bounty hunters may not be bountiful enough in that area to battle them. It would be trivial to get a large group of players in an area and start hobo killing. And because of how difficult it is to travel large distances, it would be difficult to go fight against. I am unsure you realize how long 20 minutes is. 20 minutes is a long time for a lot of people. I think @ariatras has explained it best. The average player is older. The reality is, you will not be staying within your nodes zone of influence (zoi) for 100% of the time. You say it is selfish to travel outside of your nodes zone of influence, but that is simply false. There are plenty of reasons one may need to travel outside of one's node. Gathering resources that can't be gotten in your own node, running out of quests within your own node, fighting other nodes bosses for crafting materials, checking out prices on other nodes markets, etc etc. Finally, if you think Steven is like "Yeah, I want to make an MMO that is less popular than WoW and ff14" you are mistaken. While he understands that not everyone will enjoy all of the content, he also has said repeatedly that he wants there to be enjoyable content for everyone. Pvp is important but if you don't like pvp, there is STILL a place for those people with the awesome raid system. Don't like pve? That's okay too because the pvp system is expansive! Want to rp? They are targeting that audience too! Steven's goal is quite literally the rebirth of the mmorpg genre.
NiKr wrote: » perryuppal wrote: » With that in mind, it is completely understandable and expected that hardcore players still be accomodated. Of course, there will be content that is strictly geared to that playerbase, which is perfectly fine. There SHOULD be content that only the top X% of players can do and content that the hardcore grinders want to do. Games need hardcore players as well as casual players to thrive. The problem being discussed, however, is part of the core gameplay loop that every player will experience. Once casual players like the average video game player sees how much of a percentage of their play time is dedicated solely to traveling and not engaging in content, they very likely will leave. In addition, potential new players that see how much of a slog they have ahead of them will cancel their subscription after a month or so. You know that this game is owpvp, right? So in that context you gotta realize that your suggestion of "anyone can reach any place on the map within 20 minutes" will just mean that any zerg or strong group of players will be able to go to the same places you want to go to, except they can just run over you and your friends and you'll never experience that content in the first place. While with meaningful travel time, your local node might have good content (or you moved to a node with one) and there's only one or two local strong groups that can farm that place instead of 20 from the entire server. And if you're talking about casual content, that shit's supposed to be on every corner of the world due to how Node's progression and design works. The game is designed with a player anchor. Your node is your home and you're meant to work on its improvement. If all you do is just travel every day - your node will die off. At which point you've failed at the most important part of the game, because you were too selfish and wanted to farm your own content instead of what your node (or the vassal system that you live in) presented you with. This is a different style of game, targeted at a particular audience. Will that audience be way smaller than smth like WoW or FF14 have? Of course. Do Steven and Intrepid know that and still continue to develop the game in that manner? Also of course. And this is why people on this forum (who're here exactly because they support the current vision of the game) are against your suggestion.
perryuppal wrote: » With that in mind, it is completely understandable and expected that hardcore players still be accomodated. Of course, there will be content that is strictly geared to that playerbase, which is perfectly fine. There SHOULD be content that only the top X% of players can do and content that the hardcore grinders want to do. Games need hardcore players as well as casual players to thrive. The problem being discussed, however, is part of the core gameplay loop that every player will experience. Once casual players like the average video game player sees how much of a percentage of their play time is dedicated solely to traveling and not engaging in content, they very likely will leave. In addition, potential new players that see how much of a slog they have ahead of them will cancel their subscription after a month or so.
Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Example being some people wanting no global chat to reduce socialization options between people which makes 0 senses. I don't want global chat because it'd be pointless. The sense of node-based community gets diluted because you can instead talk to the other 9.5k+ people on the server. The sheer spam of such a chat would be insane. And there'd be no functional use for that chat because you can't just go and party up with someone from the other continent. It's about "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do". Making people socialize with a smaller local group would lead to a better feeling of community and would provide each player with connections to the people who play within the same location, so if you ever need help with something - you'd already know who to talk to and would be able to get to them quicker. This comes down to "I don't see a use for it so i don't want people to have it". So me that isn't a reason for it to not be included, what you might feel as spam is not spam to another. Nor does that mean all people are going to be talking at the same time at the server, there will be plenty of people that don't talk or have it turned off. There is plenty functional use, just because someone is across the map doesn't mean you can't go there and meet up. For politics there is no reason why you should be limited on chat as that can offer plenty of information on a lot of different fronts. I can use the same point on "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do". Are you going to sit in town and wait for people to talk to there while not doing content? You aren't going to be interacting that much since you are going to have to rely on friends list and discord to try to talk to a wider audience of people. Global chat can start conversations or you can see people are doing things in your area and simply go join up or do whatever. It makes the games feel more social, over just wondering around single player or with your group in the world. Any issue you have with global chat is easily fixed in design from limitations, dividing each area and allowing people to opt into each area through tabs. You aren't going to know who to talk to since you won't be able to interact with anyone since you are trying to rely on extremely old school methods with "say + yell" as options. You are effectively forcing people to use discords and get out of the game to chat with people. If there is no global chat I'll be forced to use discords for information on the server. Id rather do everything in game since ill be running a large guild.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Example being some people wanting no global chat to reduce socialization options between people which makes 0 senses. I don't want global chat because it'd be pointless. The sense of node-based community gets diluted because you can instead talk to the other 9.5k+ people on the server. The sheer spam of such a chat would be insane. And there'd be no functional use for that chat because you can't just go and party up with someone from the other continent. It's about "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do". Making people socialize with a smaller local group would lead to a better feeling of community and would provide each player with connections to the people who play within the same location, so if you ever need help with something - you'd already know who to talk to and would be able to get to them quicker.
Mag7spy wrote: » Example being some people wanting no global chat to reduce socialization options between people which makes 0 senses.
Mag7spy wrote: » Neurath wrote: » No global chat will make zergs easier. Takes longer for news to travel. This is wrong, you will simply let mega guilds have a huge advantage on the server and crush you without you being able to ask anyone for help. Or use the politics on the server to your advantage and have enemy guilds against them back you up. If i have a mega guild at the start of the game i dont want people using global chat. Easy win on the server.
Neurath wrote: » No global chat will make zergs easier. Takes longer for news to travel.
OnyStyle wrote: » So to your point, I agree that people should be planning. With that being said a 20 minute trip is nothing to sneeze at. At the start of the game, there will be plenty of things to explore and that 20 minute trip can turn into a 4+ hour excursion on a bunch of fun stuff! And I absolutely love that. But after you have explored the region, know what's happening, etc, you just want to get your shit done and leave. I am also totally open to the idea that you have to travel to a place on foot before using any of these systems. But don't be fooled into thinking that every trip will always lead to those exciting excursions. Additionally, as of current design there will supposedly be some sort of taxi system that you can go afk on to get to other nodes. So the only difference between what I am activating for and what is already in place is it to take place faster. Had the world been smaller like the original design, it wouldn't be an issue. But now that it's bigger I believe it is a new issue.
