How should AoC deal with streamers/youtubers uploading DPS parsing videos using 3rd party programs?

Would that be a bannable offense?
I believe that it should. It would promote the message that IS doesnt want people to relly on DPS proofs as tool to decline people from joining a group or guild.

Content creators would have to do without DPS programs.

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Leiloni

George_Black wrote: »

Would that be a bannable offense?
I believe that it should. It would promote the message that IS doesnt want people to relly on DPS proofs as tool to decline people from joining a group or guild.

Content creators would have do without DPS programs.

Yes anyone who streams or posts videos using third party programs should get a ban.

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

Your scenario doesnt make sense, but you dont even have that little of a brain power to see it.

You are saying that person A is going to create "content" in a video, not even rotation DPS parsing, and then person B is going to use a DPS tracker over persons A video and accuratly measure persons A potential in a open world PvP mmo, in which having high DPS btw doesnt amount to shit if you cant handle yourself in an unscripted situation, unlike eso, ff14, wow raiding.
What kind of stupid analysis will person B conduct from persons A video, the video that isnt relevant to DPS parsing?
Meaaure how quickly person A plays AoC? How quickly they RP, gather stones? Using a timer to count down how quickly mobs die? Who gives a F?
Would person A make a video about DPS without using a tracker, only for him to say to person B "hey are you rdy with your tracker? Ok here is my clip, and here is a stupid generic gangsta wannabe track to have on the background. Let's get them views."
What a pointless and elaborate scenario you came up with. A scenario which wont amount to anything, let alone show a builds potential.
How is that relevant to breaking the rules and receiving a ban is beyond me. Only you can stretch that connection.

Get the hell out of here with the "windows" crap.

If DPS matters so little to you, why do you care enough to start this thread?

My point is, it is a sham of a situation where you do not allow one person to measure their effectiveness, but you allow someone else to measure it for them.

It isnt about the specific scenario, it is about the ridiculousness and absurdity of it.

As to your final sentence, if you disagree with it, back yourself up. Find a live MMO with a blanket ban on third party programs.

If you cant do that, get the fuck out of here with your biased, ignorant bullshit, and stop spreading such blatant, false 'information' around.

Do the bare minimum to back yourself up here or just shut up. Alternatively, if you wont back yourself up here, and continue to spew this same absolute drivel, at least everyone reading knows you are making shit up.

George_Black

You need to calm down. You are shaking so much you double quoted me.

Leiloni

NiKr wrote: »

I'd probably go with 3 strikes system. Slap on the hand and a warning, a week ban and a permaban. I'd mainly apply this to direct stream clips rather than analytical videos that Noaani mentioned.

People will be analyzing gameplay and make videos about "best builds" based on the tools that they have to analyze the game with. Intrepid should know what kind of information the player is provided with by the game, so if the video shows info that couldn't be gathered from the basic combat log or purely through visuals of the game - I'd suggest copystriking those kinds of videos. And obviously you'd need to tell the players about that rule beforehand.

No way a slap on the hand warning isn't enough to deter people. First strike needs to be a week ban. Second strike maybe a month. Third perma ban.

Azherae

Leiloni wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

I'd probably go with 3 strikes system. Slap on the hand and a warning, a week ban and a permaban. I'd mainly apply this to direct stream clips rather than analytical videos that Noaani mentioned.

People will be analyzing gameplay and make videos about "best builds" based on the tools that they have to analyze the game with. Intrepid should know what kind of information the player is provided with by the game, so if the video shows info that couldn't be gathered from the basic combat log or purely through visuals of the game - I'd suggest copystriking those kinds of videos. And obviously you'd need to tell the players about that rule beforehand.

No way a slap on the hand warning isn't enough to deter people. First strike needs to be a week ban. Second strike maybe a month. Third perma ban.

Many content creators thrive on clickbait and drama.

"I got a WARNING for this Video" is much less effective for getting their effect than:

"I got BANNED for doing this!"

And they can spend a whole video not mentioning that they only got banned for a week, to make people watch the whole thing.

Short bans are almost a reward to some, in the scenario we're talking about.

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

You need to calm down. You are shaking so much you double quoted me.

And you need to not post outright misinformation.

Songcaller

I just want to point out windows is an operating system and not a program. Much like msdos was an operating system but is now a program, when the next layer happens windows will become a program but would no longer be the operating system.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

I just want to point out windows is an operating system and not a program. Much like msdos was an operating system but is now a program, when the next layer happens windows will become a program but would no longer be the operating system.

An operating system (OS) is the program that, after being initially loaded into the computer by a boot program, manages all of the other application programs in a computer.

Songcaller

If Windows was a program you wouldn't need an emulator to run Windows on mac or an emulator to run Linux on Windows.

GrandHarfang

Neurath wrote: »

If Windows was a program you wouldn't need an emulator to run Windows on mac or an emulator to run Linux on Windows.

The OS is the program that runs on the hardware. An OS is a program by definition.

But don't take my word for it: Take a look at Linux's code

George_Black

Hmm further proof of irrelevance and pointlessness as, expected.
Keep talking about windows as if it has anything to do with 3rd pt bannable programs.

GREAT input. "Windows is a program."

CptBrownBeard

We can go even further than that. A program is a collection of code formatted to provide a specific output.

Alright, who's next?

Songcaller

An operating system is not a program. We used to work off msdos which was direct command lines to the computer. Windows gives direct command lines to the computer because its a operating system.

You can call Windows software but you can't call Windows a program. A program can't run without an operating system or command interface. I haven't used emulators for some years but the emulators allowed Nintendo games, Sega games, PlayStation games and xbox games all to be run from a Windows operating system.

Of course, in this day and age the Microsoft aspects are more integrated. So no need for an emulator. However, none of those older emulators ran Windows - they ran the console operating system. You couldn't just install an operating system to the same hard drive or an operating system on an operating system.

Ashes is a program with a Windows requirement so windows can't be considered a third party program.

Edit: cut off response

George_Black

No no. Keep going.
Video editing is a 3rd pt program. Google chrome is a 3rd pt program.
Who gets banned? The oroginal uploaded or the second content creator?
It is relevant in discrediting the punishment request for those that want to examine dps.

These are inputs that succesfully null the original premise.

I for one am not up to the challenge of clarifying if the ban is warranted due to these complications.

Strevi

If I'll buy a robot, more advanced than those from Boston Dynamics, which can do anything a human can, how will MMOs make their games? The grind and challenging fights?
And will they ban my robot?

Sathrago

I think the rabbit hole people are digging just fell into a bottomless cavern. When the OP says third party programs/addons, he is talking about a program that is run on your computer that specifically interacts with the game in a way that makes the game easier to play or otherwise adjusts how it is played. Be it automatically collecting information or running a macro to automate certain features.
These things are not allowed according to steven. Full stop. There is also a pretty big precedence for this in ff14 where they can't really scan your computer for all third party programs as that would be invasion of privacy/impossible to really sort out as you guys seem to be claiming.
However, videos and streams are not private. They are in the public for all to see, and viable proof when determining if a person is using a 3rd party addon or not with a small amount of research on the GM's side of things.
It is not healthy for the game for such people to get away with blatantly advertising these addons/programs, and I believe the correct action is to ban players who would display these things in such a public way.

Ideally the devs will take a stance of, "no proof no action." As long as you use these 3rd party addons within your own space and do not make videos or streams or advertisements for them, i believe you should be "safe" to use them. Obviously at this point its up to the 3rd party creator to develop programs that the gamemasters cannot detect accurately. So do with that what you will.

George_Black

Strevi wrote: »

If I'll buy a robot, more advanced than those from Boston Dynamics, which can do anything a human can, how will MMOs make their games? The grind and challenging fights?
And will they ban my robot?

Well, you could make your own mmo then with that robot

Strevi

George_Black wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

If I'll buy a robot, more advanced than those from Boston Dynamics, which can do anything a human can, how will MMOs make their games? The grind and challenging fights?
And will they ban my robot?

Well, you could make your own mmo then with that robot

Everybody will have such robots in future...

George_Black

Strevi wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

If I'll buy a robot, more advanced than those from Boston Dynamics, which can do anything a human can, how will MMOs make their games? The grind and challenging fights?
And will they ban my robot?

Well, you could make your own mmo then with that robot

Everybody will have such robots in future...

Everybody will have an mmo in the future

Azherae

Strevi wrote: »

If I'll buy a robot, more advanced than those from Boston Dynamics, which can do anything a human can, how will MMOs make their games? The grind and challenging fights?
And will they ban my robot?

Actually I believe they could, in fact, ban your robot, in a very roundabout way (banning your account because you let your robot play for you on that account obviously, but beyond that too).

But 'Third Party Programs' clauses in Terms usually outline specific things that the Third Party Program is not allowed to do in ways that affect the game client (and some MMOs have been trying to also assert 'cannot intercept nor affect the data sent between the server and the client).

So obviously anyone who used anything that hooks into the Client or the Networking protocols in any way that can change it, is violating that type of ToS, and people who don't, aren't violating that section and need to be banned for some other reason (assuming they don't just ban for nothing, which they CAN do)

Intrepid would just need to come up with that 'some other reason', because it's easier to do that than worry about any legal situations from 'bans without reason'.

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