DPS Meter Megathread

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Leir

What is there to be gained by trying to cut players off from a diagnostic tool like damage meters? Figuring out how we stack in our performance compared to other players helps us learn and improve. Meters are usually a more direct and a much less time-intensive means of gauging our performance than re-watching recordings of our play or reading through combat logs.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani
that's life

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani
that's life

Indeed it is.

Both in my job and on gaming, I'm one of the people that is among the first to ask those questions, and so I do a lot of figuring things out for myself.

When I'm playing an MMO, guess what tool I use to figure things out, so that when others ask me about them I am able to answer their question.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani

I guess you can't be #1 anymore

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani

I guess you can't be #1 anymore

I dont try to be.

I just try to be better than I was yesterday. If I succeed at that, I consider it a win.

Sapiverenus

Noaani wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani

I guess you can't be #1 anymore

I dont try to be.

I just try to be better than I was yesterday. If I succeed at that, I consider it a win.

Then maybe you will notice frame data if that is particularly relevant to Ashes combat

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Noaani

I guess you can't be #1 anymore

I dont try to be.

I just try to be better than I was yesterday. If I succeed at that, I consider it a win.

Then maybe you will notice frame data if that is particularly relevant to Ashes combat

I dont expect it will be.

Keep in mind, if hybrid combat wasnt going to work out, Intrepid were set to default to tab target combat, not action.

This means that on a scale, combat in Ashes will be closer to tab than it will to a pure action combat game.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani

Because action combat is more difficult to get right. Especially for someone that played more Tab MMOs and Pathfinder than Action anything.

I am hoping Sharif brought on people who are good at action combat and have developed it to a high standard but I doubt that's the case.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Noaani

Because action combat is more difficult to get right. Especially for someone that played more Tab MMOs and Pathfinder than Action anything.

I am hoping Sharif brought on people who are good at action combat and have developed it to a high standard but I doubt that's the case.

The plurality of Intrepid staff are ex-EQ2 developers.

easy

DPS meters are fine but if you don't want to add them then allow for 3rd party mods to track damage. it's as shrimple as that

Aerlana

easy wrote: »

DPS meters are fine but if you don't want to add them then allow for 3rd party mods to track damage. it's as shrimple as that

It won't be allow, it is stated and really really low chance to change.
And... it is not so bad, because if one kind of third party is allowed, what about others ?
But... many game don't allow this, and... those many game still have a tracker on a form or another.

This is why nooani, but also others (as i) try to explain the benefits of a tracker, being opt-in thru guild perk, with some specific way to be used as hidden during fight (to avoid people losing time, and focus watching their DPS for their ego while fight is going for example).

As i view this idea :
Most toxic behaviour risk disappear. (toxicity coming mostly when 2 kind of mentality are in same group of player... not case here, you chose the guild fitting your mentality), It also avoid to track people who don't want/don't care (it is a problem in FFXIV... ). And for tracker enjoyers, it will give more accurate data (third party can easily have a little variation due to indirect data gathering... not a big one, but 100% accuracy is better than 99%) And it would provide another data for IS to see how the players are playing the game. (more kind of information to see it is always better) Because tracker users vs non users, is not the same thing as people doing high end PvE and those not ^^".

Tragnar

I wonder if theorycrafters in general are going to be hated by players in general or just the vocal forum minority of "hardcore" purists

Ludullu

Tragnar wrote: »

I wonder if theorycrafters in general are going to be hated by players in general or just the vocal forum minority of "hardcore" purists

Definitely only by the minority. The majority couldn't give fewer fucks about the trackers. And if they were told directly "trackers will help make the guides that you will use" - they'd all be for it.

Deadfool

Wololo wrote: »

I dislike dps meters alot. Especially if its displayed to others in a party. First of all if there is a dps meter, a heal or buff meter would be equally important to have. Also this pushes players into meta builds more to get max dps + prefering raw damage numbers over being a utility player or supporting in other means then doing damage. But iam more of a pvp/pk player myselve and never got into serious raiding, maybe iam wrong and it is really needed to weed out the weak so to say ? It just feels wrong to funnel down on numbers when fighting in a world full of grahpics and animations to base gameplay on.

I agree with you 100%

Sapiverenus

Tragnar wrote: »

I wonder if theorycrafters in general are going to be hated by players in general or just the vocal forum minority of "hardcore" purists

Think of philosophers of real life. The theorycrafters of real life.
They live in their own world. They meta-game the fuck out of it.
This is basically contrary to the point of the game; but if people want to look at the info and options the game has provided and strategize, think up tactics, et cetera. That's fine with me.

Reducing everything to numbers then showing those numbers on screen is immersion breaking though
(yes immersion this is an objective definition) and mood/ atmosphere breaking (basically objective because it's a medieval fantasy world you're exploring and struggling in; any opinion otherwise is number compulsives demanding they get their fix).

Having floating numbers and meta-gaming BS rather than immersive gaming: is complete BS.

Sapiverenus

Many wonder why MMOs aren't more popular. Why?

Maybe because devs listen to those that don't give a shit about anyone but themselves and want to actively push out certain demographics and genre enjoyers out of their game?

MMO just means massively multiplayer online. Add in role-playing game and you technically can do almost anything with the genre.

Yet most examples of an MMORPG seem to do everything to mitigate the definition of its own genre, rather than leaning hard into it and LEADING in a direction of real growth rather than real confinement or complete ungrounding.

MMORPGs are clowns.

If I can think of ways of expanding the game, gameplay, and classes; you're in hot water.

You can say what I say is shit, but it's because I'm right LMAO

Most of my suggestions aren't for Ashes of Creation they're for an MMORPG; so please save me the vomit coming to the defense of Ashes of Creation.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Maybe because devs listen to those that don't give a shit about anyone but themselves and want to actively push out certain demographics and genre enjoyers out of their game?

I agree.

Those people trying to push myself and others like me out of the game by saying we shouldn't/can't use trackers really need to stop just thinking about themselves, and think about how others like to enjoy MMO's.

The genre would be so much better if they just let people enjoy the game the way they want, rather than these people forcing their opinion of how to enjoy MMO's on to everyone.

Strevi

Would it be difficult to make servers with and without combat trackers?

Pappasalt

I decided to check out the forums, why is there a 176 page discussion on a dps meter? lol.

Why would there be a discussion on having more info? Don't want to use one, then don't. Don't want to be held to one, don't group with people that will. Pretty simple lol.

I guess I should add to this, as a raid/guild leader of 15-20 years now....we NEED information...the more information the better. You don't have to join a guild, group, etc with people who are going to hold you to it. But a game without information, especially at the top end and harder difficult things...will be a mess. Best example these days being warcraft logs in combination with something like wow analyzer so I can see how people are performing, what is being missed mechanics wise, and what we can do to improve each attempt to actually complete the content.

Aerlana

Pappasalt wrote: »

Why would there be a discussion on having more info? Don't want to use one, then don't. Don't want to be held to one, don't group with people that will. Pretty simple lol.

Not so simple...
There is always a risk to have people try to force their preference on the others... directly (do it, or gtfo) or indirectly (with the use of the tool impacting the other way to do, as would do global chat with a less use of the local chats)

The discussion is a lot about "yes or no tracker in game"
But there is also a suggestion/idea sometime being remembered by nooani most often : a way to have this tool in a way where there are low risk (could way no risk) to not be able to group with people who don't want : tracker thru guild perk, so you join guild with it and you assume to be in such guild, if you hate tracker, and don't want to hear about it, so... just go in a guild without it.

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