ShadowVen wrote: » It seems that a lot of people who are complaining or worried about the soft lock and hard lock in action mode seem to be forgetting a key factor in game play. Apparently they think since the arrow is going to reach its target (hit scan), it will always hit. This is incorrect thinking. Based on stats and accuracy there will be chance of missing and failure on landing the hit. I understand that Ashes "action combat" isn't what people normally expect as Action combat but I don't have a problem with what there doing so far. I look forward to testing it out in A2.
Mag7spy wrote: » ShadowVen wrote: » It seems that a lot of people who are complaining or worried about the soft lock and hard lock in action mode seem to be forgetting a key factor in game play. Apparently they think since the arrow is going to reach its target (hit scan), it will always hit. This is incorrect thinking. Based on stats and accuracy there will be chance of missing and failure on landing the hit. I understand that Ashes "action combat" isn't what people normally expect as Action combat but I don't have a problem with what there doing so far. I look forward to testing it out in A2. No that is correct it always hits the target and therefore making tab much more effective. They have never said accuracy isn't a factor for action combat skills, in both cases in action mode just because you hit with soft lock doesn't mean your attack wont be evaded. If there are more benefits they can talk and show about with action combat people will be happy to hear Ie stun, more accuracy, damage, crits, etc. But I'm not going to assume what they have not shown yet. So what we have to go off is what we learned last week as there is no definitive answer.
ShadowVen wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ShadowVen wrote: » It seems that a lot of people who are complaining or worried about the soft lock and hard lock in action mode seem to be forgetting a key factor in game play. Apparently they think since the arrow is going to reach its target (hit scan), it will always hit. This is incorrect thinking. Based on stats and accuracy there will be chance of missing and failure on landing the hit. I understand that Ashes "action combat" isn't what people normally expect as Action combat but I don't have a problem with what there doing so far. I look forward to testing it out in A2. No that is correct it always hits the target and therefore making tab much more effective. They have never said accuracy isn't a factor for action combat skills, in both cases in action mode just because you hit with soft lock doesn't mean your attack wont be evaded. If there are more benefits they can talk and show about with action combat people will be happy to hear Ie stun, more accuracy, damage, crits, etc. But I'm not going to assume what they have not shown yet. So what we have to go off is what we learned last week as there is no definitive answer. I disagree that it will always hit and do damage in tab. If it always hits then what's the purpose for the "physical accuracy" stat they have? You can see here the Stat they have they have shown in the past. It wouldn't make any sense to have that accuracy Stat if you will 100% always land a hit. Also, what would be the point of blocking/block chance? Not like shields are only for defense. Are you saying arrows will always hit and bypass shields as well?https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Gear
ShadowVen wrote: » It seems Apparently they think since the arrow is going to reach its target (hit scan), it will always hit.
Mag7spy wrote: » No that is correct it always hits the target and therefore making tab much more effective.
ShadowVen wrote: » My OP quote .... I said it'll reach the target but they think it will "hit" every time. Hit = damage. ShadowVen wrote: » It seems Apparently they think since the arrow is going to reach its target (hit scan), it will always hit. Your reply... and said "it always hits the target" Mag7spy wrote: » No that is correct it always hits the target and therefore making tab much more effective. You may have misunderstood my OP.
Sapiverenus wrote: » Time to Kill has been shown to be a lot lower than 30 seconds. If one misses their abilities, sure. If they all hit, it's way below 30 seconds. And they're throwing on all this mobility and AoE for some reason. . . lol
There is only 1 Ranger; out of 8 classes. If FPS players want their 'class' let them have it.
Azherae wrote: » This is almost entirely decided by skills, base intentions and 'backpedal' functionality, though, not TTK.
Isn't the intention moreso that Rangers change to melee weapons once the melee-focused player gets in (as in, all your escapes have been used)? And relies on their advantage up until that point to win? I personally will be fairly disappointed if that's not the case (though I can't speak to balance overall, I bet I wouldn't like it either).
XiraelAcaron wrote: » Maybe we should discuss what we actually know from the live stream and what we can deduce about the how the system actually works. There will be of course some assumptions and questions. Please correct me if I made an unfounded assumtion or miss to state an assumption on my part. So lets start with targeting: There are three ways to target a short: hard lock soft lock without lock (only in reticle mode) Since the arrow is a projectile, the game needs to calculate a trajectory once one releases an arrow. The trajectory without lock is relatively easy, but there is the question about what happens at the end of the attack range. I assume, that in case of any lock, the trajectory calculated for a shot is the trajectory that would impact the selected target after the flight time of the arrow if the attacker does not change position. However there are two cases again: if the projectile is seeking, the trajectory will change depending on the position change of the target. if it is not seeking, the trajectory will be fixed and if the target moves the projectile may not impact the target. Q: are autoattacks seeking? Is it different between tab hard and soft lock or between retical and tab mod? If it is not the same all he time, how does the target know whether dodging is required or not? So after the projectile is released there are things that can happen. If the projectile is seeking and the target does not move and no one interposes himself between target and projectile, the projectile will impact the target. I assume that there are no body parts, so it does not mattwe where it actually impacts. If someone interposes himself what happens? Q: does the projectile impact whatever interposes itself? Does it go through? This has PvP/flagging/group play implications. Is it different for seeking and non-seeking projectiles, for reticle and tab mode, for other use cases? If the projectile is not seeking and the target dodges, the projectile will not impact. So, in case the projectile actually impacts, we come to the part that Steven mentioned when he talked about 'everything being stat opposed'. So actually impacting however an impact is defined (e.g. hitbox etc) the target does not necessarily mean the projectile actually hit or did any damage. Instead the traditional tab target compare between attacker and defender stats come into play. If defender has high evasion/block and the attacker has low accuracy the attack may still 'miss' even if the projectile impacted. Q: is there still such kind of stat opposition for hit/miss or does this only determin damage? Is this the same in all modes or is this different in reticle and tab mode. Since Steven talked about everything being stat opposed I still think impacting projectiles can still miss. I also think it is not viable to have a difference between the two modes, because otherwise stats are only relevant in certain situations and there is basically no way to balance anything. Some thoughts: - If dodging projectiles in tab mode is a thing, it would seem that hardlocking does not actually ensure an impact. And since an attack is stat opposed anway, it would certainly not ensure a hit. The system seems to not depend on the target skill of the attacker, but more on the dodge skill of the defender. The question is how often can one dodge in a fight? The short bow would surely have an advantage here. - If a tank can interpose himself between a projectile and a target that opens up many gameplay options. The tank role was always problematic with its taunt mechanic useless in PvP. Now, a tank has actual ways to actually protect. But this also somewhat contradicts what Steven says in the life stream, because selecting a player in the backline with tab may not actually help at all, since you cannot hit him anyway. Thoughts?
Mag7spy wrote: » Ya i dont think they need to be really falling down, but i can understand why some people would want that for super long range shots. Would be interesting for a showcase on more skills and far range combat and how that will feel. If all arrows are straight with no fall off it feels kind of scuffed game wise.
XiraelAcaron wrote: » Did anyone actually confirm that projectiles were seeking? Did you see that in the video? Or did you just assume that? Honest question, I did not do an in-depth analysis of the video. To clarify: by seeking I mean does the projectile adjusts the trajectory while flying based on movement of the target that was originally selected? I do not mean seeking in the sense of initially selecting the target near the reticle.
CROW3 wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Ya i dont think they need to be really falling down, but i can understand why some people would want that for super long range shots. Would be interesting for a showcase on more skills and far range combat and how that will feel. If all arrows are straight with no fall off it feels kind of scuffed game wise. Maybe they just hit their max range and suddenly arc down for the sake of animation? I’d just ask that projectiles do no damage from that max range point to where it finally hits the ground.
CROW3 wrote: » I’m not sure where you have seen this ‘shown.’ Nothing in any of the reveals or A1 has been balanced to the goal TTK. Steven is in God mode for all demos, and the damage output for those demos is entirely for demo’ing the skill and relative power, not balanced amplitudes.
CROW3 wrote: Sapiverenus wrote: There is only 1 Ranger; out of 8 classes. If FPS players want their 'class' let them have it. Well, the preview of ranged basic attacks applies to all classes, not just rangers. All classes can use long and short bows, so no I don’t think turning the basic ranged attacks into an FPS is great for Ashes.
Sapiverenus wrote: There is only 1 Ranger; out of 8 classes. If FPS players want their 'class' let them have it.
CROW3 wrote: » It didn’t appear the arrows in the preview have a ballistic trajectory. Honestly, I can’t imagine they’d implement a trajectory when you have a hybrid combat system where you have tab and hard targets. Those folks that have to adjust for elevation and drop would be at way too far a disadvantage to another player tabbing them, not to mention melee with a quick charge.
