NiKr wrote: » What if the camera centered on your mouse and the "tab" press had a short range which would make people aim more with their mouse to tab a target rather than just hitting "tab"? L2 needed you to mouse click your targets because not only were there too many enemies on the screen to tab through them, but also because the "tab" function had a short range (far shorter than the ranged attacks one) so you had to have good "pixel hunting" skills. Would that be considered "requiring skill" in the context of tab targeting? Cause to me it is, but I'm heavily biased towards that kind of mechanic.
Sengarden wrote: » NiKr wrote: » What if the camera centered on your mouse and the "tab" press had a short range which would make people aim more with their mouse to tab a target rather than just hitting "tab"? L2 needed you to mouse click your targets because not only were there too many enemies on the screen to tab through them, but also because the "tab" function had a short range (far shorter than the ranged attacks one) so you had to have good "pixel hunting" skills. Would that be considered "requiring skill" in the context of tab targeting? Cause to me it is, but I'm heavily biased towards that kind of mechanic. Would the camera centering on your mouse not just be... action mode? Cause that's basically what action mode is without the reticle. I think tab players prefer tab not only for auto-aimed basic abilities, but for the freedom of mouse movement independent of camera movement.
Sengarden wrote: » Would the camera centering on your mouse not just be... action mode? Cause that's basically what action mode is without the reticle. I think tab players prefer tab not only for auto-aimed basic abilities, but for the freedom of mouse movement independent of camera movement.
Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Do we consider that 'enough skill'? To me, as long as the use of any particular ability accomplishes your current goal - you were skilled enough to use that ability. Pointing at a fastmoving mob's head is only important if your main goal is to only make headshots and nothing else. Or if it's a required mechanic for smth. I don't consider this take valid relative to the conversations we're having, though. By that reasoning, literally anything a game requires is skill. I really doubt that's what's being discussed, and if it somehow is, it's so tautological as to not be worth engaging. "AoC Combat is skilled because it has goals and you can achieve them."?
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Do we consider that 'enough skill'? To me, as long as the use of any particular ability accomplishes your current goal - you were skilled enough to use that ability. Pointing at a fastmoving mob's head is only important if your main goal is to only make headshots and nothing else. Or if it's a required mechanic for smth.
Azherae wrote: » Do we consider that 'enough skill'?
Sapiverenus wrote: » Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Do we consider that 'enough skill'? To me, as long as the use of any particular ability accomplishes your current goal - you were skilled enough to use that ability. Pointing at a fastmoving mob's head is only important if your main goal is to only make headshots and nothing else. Or if it's a required mechanic for smth. I don't consider this take valid relative to the conversations we're having, though. By that reasoning, literally anything a game requires is skill. I really doubt that's what's being discussed, and if it somehow is, it's so tautological as to not be worth engaging. "AoC Combat is skilled because it has goals and you can achieve them."? beyond tautological you have preferences, actors and character make ashes ymmersive again MAYA
Sapiverenus wrote: » I vote for high damage going on to difficult-to-aim shots, variable inertia based on attributes, encumberance and damage to character; and next to no dashes but instead some light acrobatics for the particularly acrobatic and duck/ weave available (crouching while changing direction should be slightly faster) . I should be able to play this game first person. . .
Sengarden wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This depends how they balance out systems, if it works one to one with 0 bonuses for extra effort then people will complain. This is why people are mentioning things early, as voicing increased difficulty and getting less is a issue in peoples eyes. Right, but the opposite side of the coin is that if they don't work one to one with 0 bonuses, then the higher skill system, action, will have the bonuses. And as we've all seen from many forum threads and polls, the majority of the current fanbase either prefers tab-centric combat or is ambivalent. Even if those threads and polls are skewed, I'd say it's at least a 50/50 split. This would likely lead to those people, at least half if not the majority of people following the game, taking issue with the skill ceiling being unattainable unless you're interested in and capable of mastering reticle skill-shots. So you can't fully win either way if both tab and true reticle action combat coexist, whether they're separately damage balanced or not. Mag7spy wrote: » Ashes of creation combat should not be like top down league / dota style placing circles like you are playing a moba. That sounds terrible if they is what you were kind of suggesting. They just need a intuitive way for camera to be repositioned for action tyle skills or for them to be just used in front of you. It's worked well enough in other MMOs, but I understand if your only experience with them is in a MOBA, and if having them in an MMO would feel out of place. That being said, how else do you imagine players casting ranged ground-targeted AOE abilities? If you want pure blind-firing with every ranged ground-targeted AOE ability casting directly in front of the player, with the player having to learn exactly what the range and boundaries of those attacks are by sight alone, I can potentially get behind that, but I don't think tab players would like it much, as you'd be essentially forcing them to play tab while using the center of their screen as a "reticle" for aiming their ranged ground-targeted AOEs. Either that, or you'd have to have this camera switch be implemented for every ground-targeted ranged AOE attack and enemy-targeted ranged skillshot attack. With this, you also have to consider that ground-targeted ranged AOEs usually have a decent casting distance, and from a near dead-on reticle camera view, your perspective of the terrain as you get further away from your character covers a broader measure of ground length per unit of pixels on the screen as you near the horizon, causing the use of the center of the screen as a reticle to make judging the distance of those attacks very difficult (and not in a fun way). For enemy-targeted skillshots at least, I can sort of visualize what a smooth camera transition would look like, but it would have to be more up-close and centered right over the player's shoulder. A smooth, but relatively quick transition, with the camera's distance from the player being locked in while aiming, that then pans back to the previous camera distance just as quickly after the skillshot is taken. So you press the ability of the key, the camera pans in, you aim and click or press the ability key again, and the camera pans back out. I imagine this sort of distance while aiming: They could also implement a custom skillshot camera setting, where you go into the menu, click a button to reset it, have the interface hide the menus, allow you to adjust your camera for where you'd want the reticle to pan to when you activate a skillshot (how high above, far back from, and horizontally offset from your shoulder), and then save it to your character. You could even have different camera setups saved for solo play vs larger content in case you wanted to be farther away to see more ground effects or a broader view of what's in front of you in dungeons or OWPvP.
Mag7spy wrote: » This depends how they balance out systems, if it works one to one with 0 bonuses for extra effort then people will complain. This is why people are mentioning things early, as voicing increased difficulty and getting less is a issue in peoples eyes.
Mag7spy wrote: » Ashes of creation combat should not be like top down league / dota style placing circles like you are playing a moba. That sounds terrible if they is what you were kind of suggesting. They just need a intuitive way for camera to be repositioned for action tyle skills or for them to be just used in front of you.
Azherae wrote: » At 1:00 ish of this, you see a situation where the reticle is pointed at the ground but because the skill is 'lateral across ground' or 'lateral once it reaches a certain height above ground, it hits the target in front anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wUyHG4xiOY Do we consider that 'enough skill'?
Dummo wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Sengarden wrote: » I have to say, I share some of the same concerns as @Dummo , primarily in regards to the player running a rotation relatively camera-blind to suddenly having to re-direct their camera angle directly at an enemy in the distance to execute a proc ability. I suppose you could qualify that as a skill, but an arguably annoying one to master and exercise. Ground targeted abilities are never an issue combining with tab skills, because they're relatively large, ground based targets that don't make you adjust your camera much if at all, but mixing a vague third person landscape / downward angle that generally keeps a full spread of your surroundings in view with intermittent, carefully timed, precise aiming directly in front of your character with a limited window of opportunity? Just sounds like it could be a bit jarring and not a very smooth process visually. But I do like the idea of having a decent amount of aimed skill shots. Especially given the damage it seems like they want abilities like Snipe to put out. That sort of thing should not be tab-target compatible. Archers either need to do high damage with a medium-to-high skill requirement to maintain, or have their damage softened a bit to make up for them being able to kite so easily and auto-target most of their abilities. IMO, this hybrid system needs to lean more towards one side or the other, because trying to make both reticle skill-shots and blind tab firing work together seems like it can only turn out a bit rocky. If you make any part of the ranged system require players to have a good reticle aiming ability to get the most out of their class, the vast majority of tab-centric players will be upset that they're not able to maximize the archetype's potential. If you allow tab players the same ability to output damage as those who choose the more challenging path of utilizing more skill-based abilities, you'll get many action players complaining that their effort isn't worth the trouble of occasionally missing shots or hitting the wrong target in a pack, and likely switching to tab for the majority of content, making much of the effort put into the "hybrid" system a waste of time. I don't want to be a downer, I just have a hard time seeing how Intrepid can actually blend reticle skillshots into a largely tab based rotation without it feeling clunky and jarring. Considering that the "action mode" they showed off in the stream is essentially a soft lock plug-in for the tab system, I'd hesitate to even call an action-targeted ability a skill shot. You stick your cursor anywhere on (or seemingly near) the target and it hits them square in their hitbox. You might as well make the skill shots accessible from tab target mode with a stylized arrow ground decal that moves with your cursor similar to WoW's ranged skillshots that hit the nearest enemy who's hitbox falls on the decal boundary. Both require nothing more than vaguely hovering your cursor over the target, just with a different camera angle and visual aid. I've personally never taken issue with that approach to skillshots in the past. This depends how they balance out systems, if it works one to one with 0 bonuses for extra effort then people will complain. This is why people are mentioning things early, as voicing increased difficulty and getting less is a issue in peoples eyes. Sengarden wrote: » Right, but the opposite side of the coin is that if they don't work one to one with 0 bonuses, then the higher skill system, action, will have the bonuses. There's pros and cons for both of the camera modes, there does not need to be an extra incentive to use either. Ashes of creation combat should not be like top down league / dota style placing circles like you are playing a moba. That sounds terrible if they is what you were kind of suggesting. They just need a intuitive way for camera to be repositioned for action tyle skills or for them to be just used in front of you. If they can figure that out, sure. I don't really see it happening without either having to drag your aim to the target you wish to hit when switching from tab targeting camera mode to reticle camera mode yourself, or the game centering your camera and thus reticle on your target automatically when switching from tab targeting camera mode to reticle camera mode. Both options seem tedious. Sengarden wrote: » For enemy-targeted skillshots at least, I can sort of visualize what a smooth camera transition would look like, but it would have to be more up-close and centered right over the player's shoulder. A smooth, but relatively quick transition, with the camera's distance from the player being locked in while aiming, that then pans back to the previous camera distance just as quickly after the skillshot is taken. So you press the ability of the key, the camera pans in, you aim and click or press the ability key again, and the camera pans back out. I can only see this working if you already have your target centered on your screen in tab targeting camera mode, which certainly is not always the case.
Mag7spy wrote: » Sengarden wrote: » I have to say, I share some of the same concerns as @Dummo , primarily in regards to the player running a rotation relatively camera-blind to suddenly having to re-direct their camera angle directly at an enemy in the distance to execute a proc ability. I suppose you could qualify that as a skill, but an arguably annoying one to master and exercise. Ground targeted abilities are never an issue combining with tab skills, because they're relatively large, ground based targets that don't make you adjust your camera much if at all, but mixing a vague third person landscape / downward angle that generally keeps a full spread of your surroundings in view with intermittent, carefully timed, precise aiming directly in front of your character with a limited window of opportunity? Just sounds like it could be a bit jarring and not a very smooth process visually. But I do like the idea of having a decent amount of aimed skill shots. Especially given the damage it seems like they want abilities like Snipe to put out. That sort of thing should not be tab-target compatible. Archers either need to do high damage with a medium-to-high skill requirement to maintain, or have their damage softened a bit to make up for them being able to kite so easily and auto-target most of their abilities. IMO, this hybrid system needs to lean more towards one side or the other, because trying to make both reticle skill-shots and blind tab firing work together seems like it can only turn out a bit rocky. If you make any part of the ranged system require players to have a good reticle aiming ability to get the most out of their class, the vast majority of tab-centric players will be upset that they're not able to maximize the archetype's potential. If you allow tab players the same ability to output damage as those who choose the more challenging path of utilizing more skill-based abilities, you'll get many action players complaining that their effort isn't worth the trouble of occasionally missing shots or hitting the wrong target in a pack, and likely switching to tab for the majority of content, making much of the effort put into the "hybrid" system a waste of time. I don't want to be a downer, I just have a hard time seeing how Intrepid can actually blend reticle skillshots into a largely tab based rotation without it feeling clunky and jarring. Considering that the "action mode" they showed off in the stream is essentially a soft lock plug-in for the tab system, I'd hesitate to even call an action-targeted ability a skill shot. You stick your cursor anywhere on (or seemingly near) the target and it hits them square in their hitbox. You might as well make the skill shots accessible from tab target mode with a stylized arrow ground decal that moves with your cursor similar to WoW's ranged skillshots that hit the nearest enemy who's hitbox falls on the decal boundary. Both require nothing more than vaguely hovering your cursor over the target, just with a different camera angle and visual aid. I've personally never taken issue with that approach to skillshots in the past. This depends how they balance out systems, if it works one to one with 0 bonuses for extra effort then people will complain. This is why people are mentioning things early, as voicing increased difficulty and getting less is a issue in peoples eyes.
Sengarden wrote: » I have to say, I share some of the same concerns as @Dummo , primarily in regards to the player running a rotation relatively camera-blind to suddenly having to re-direct their camera angle directly at an enemy in the distance to execute a proc ability. I suppose you could qualify that as a skill, but an arguably annoying one to master and exercise. Ground targeted abilities are never an issue combining with tab skills, because they're relatively large, ground based targets that don't make you adjust your camera much if at all, but mixing a vague third person landscape / downward angle that generally keeps a full spread of your surroundings in view with intermittent, carefully timed, precise aiming directly in front of your character with a limited window of opportunity? Just sounds like it could be a bit jarring and not a very smooth process visually. But I do like the idea of having a decent amount of aimed skill shots. Especially given the damage it seems like they want abilities like Snipe to put out. That sort of thing should not be tab-target compatible. Archers either need to do high damage with a medium-to-high skill requirement to maintain, or have their damage softened a bit to make up for them being able to kite so easily and auto-target most of their abilities. IMO, this hybrid system needs to lean more towards one side or the other, because trying to make both reticle skill-shots and blind tab firing work together seems like it can only turn out a bit rocky. If you make any part of the ranged system require players to have a good reticle aiming ability to get the most out of their class, the vast majority of tab-centric players will be upset that they're not able to maximize the archetype's potential. If you allow tab players the same ability to output damage as those who choose the more challenging path of utilizing more skill-based abilities, you'll get many action players complaining that their effort isn't worth the trouble of occasionally missing shots or hitting the wrong target in a pack, and likely switching to tab for the majority of content, making much of the effort put into the "hybrid" system a waste of time. I don't want to be a downer, I just have a hard time seeing how Intrepid can actually blend reticle skillshots into a largely tab based rotation without it feeling clunky and jarring. Considering that the "action mode" they showed off in the stream is essentially a soft lock plug-in for the tab system, I'd hesitate to even call an action-targeted ability a skill shot. You stick your cursor anywhere on (or seemingly near) the target and it hits them square in their hitbox. You might as well make the skill shots accessible from tab target mode with a stylized arrow ground decal that moves with your cursor similar to WoW's ranged skillshots that hit the nearest enemy who's hitbox falls on the decal boundary. Both require nothing more than vaguely hovering your cursor over the target, just with a different camera angle and visual aid. I've personally never taken issue with that approach to skillshots in the past.
Sengarden wrote: » Right, but the opposite side of the coin is that if they don't work one to one with 0 bonuses, then the higher skill system, action, will have the bonuses.
Ashes of creation combat should not be like top down league / dota style placing circles like you are playing a moba. That sounds terrible if they is what you were kind of suggesting. They just need a intuitive way for camera to be repositioned for action tyle skills or for them to be just used in front of you.
Sengarden wrote: » For enemy-targeted skillshots at least, I can sort of visualize what a smooth camera transition would look like, but it would have to be more up-close and centered right over the player's shoulder. A smooth, but relatively quick transition, with the camera's distance from the player being locked in while aiming, that then pans back to the previous camera distance just as quickly after the skillshot is taken. So you press the ability of the key, the camera pans in, you aim and click or press the ability key again, and the camera pans back out.
Abarat wrote: » Sapiverenus wrote: » I vote for high damage going on to difficult-to-aim shots, variable inertia based on attributes, encumberance and damage to character; and next to no dashes but instead some light acrobatics for the particularly acrobatic and duck/ weave available (crouching while changing direction should be slightly faster) . I should be able to play this game first person. . . no offense, but you sound like the guy that will spamming chat with aim bot adverts.
Mag7spy wrote: » Dummo wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Sengarden wrote: » I have to say, I share some of the same concerns as @Dummo , primarily in regards to the player running a rotation relatively camera-blind to suddenly having to re-direct their camera angle directly at an enemy in the distance to execute a proc ability. I suppose you could qualify that as a skill, but an arguably annoying one to master and exercise. Ground targeted abilities are never an issue combining with tab skills, because they're relatively large, ground based targets that don't make you adjust your camera much if at all, but mixing a vague third person landscape / downward angle that generally keeps a full spread of your surroundings in view with intermittent, carefully timed, precise aiming directly in front of your character with a limited window of opportunity? Just sounds like it could be a bit jarring and not a very smooth process visually. But I do like the idea of having a decent amount of aimed skill shots. Especially given the damage it seems like they want abilities like Snipe to put out. That sort of thing should not be tab-target compatible. Archers either need to do high damage with a medium-to-high skill requirement to maintain, or have their damage softened a bit to make up for them being able to kite so easily and auto-target most of their abilities. IMO, this hybrid system needs to lean more towards one side or the other, because trying to make both reticle skill-shots and blind tab firing work together seems like it can only turn out a bit rocky. If you make any part of the ranged system require players to have a good reticle aiming ability to get the most out of their class, the vast majority of tab-centric players will be upset that they're not able to maximize the archetype's potential. If you allow tab players the same ability to output damage as those who choose the more challenging path of utilizing more skill-based abilities, you'll get many action players complaining that their effort isn't worth the trouble of occasionally missing shots or hitting the wrong target in a pack, and likely switching to tab for the majority of content, making much of the effort put into the "hybrid" system a waste of time. I don't want to be a downer, I just have a hard time seeing how Intrepid can actually blend reticle skillshots into a largely tab based rotation without it feeling clunky and jarring. Considering that the "action mode" they showed off in the stream is essentially a soft lock plug-in for the tab system, I'd hesitate to even call an action-targeted ability a skill shot. You stick your cursor anywhere on (or seemingly near) the target and it hits them square in their hitbox. You might as well make the skill shots accessible from tab target mode with a stylized arrow ground decal that moves with your cursor similar to WoW's ranged skillshots that hit the nearest enemy who's hitbox falls on the decal boundary. Both require nothing more than vaguely hovering your cursor over the target, just with a different camera angle and visual aid. I've personally never taken issue with that approach to skillshots in the past. This depends how they balance out systems, if it works one to one with 0 bonuses for extra effort then people will complain. This is why people are mentioning things early, as voicing increased difficulty and getting less is a issue in peoples eyes. Sengarden wrote: » Right, but the opposite side of the coin is that if they don't work one to one with 0 bonuses, then the higher skill system, action, will have the bonuses. There's pros and cons for both of the camera modes, there does not need to be an extra incentive to use either. Ashes of creation combat should not be like top down league / dota style placing circles like you are playing a moba. That sounds terrible if they is what you were kind of suggesting. They just need a intuitive way for camera to be repositioned for action tyle skills or for them to be just used in front of you. If they can figure that out, sure. I don't really see it happening without either having to drag your aim to the target you wish to hit when switching from tab targeting camera mode to reticle camera mode yourself, or the game centering your camera and thus reticle on your target automatically when switching from tab targeting camera mode to reticle camera mode. Both options seem tedious. Sengarden wrote: » For enemy-targeted skillshots at least, I can sort of visualize what a smooth camera transition would look like, but it would have to be more up-close and centered right over the player's shoulder. A smooth, but relatively quick transition, with the camera's distance from the player being locked in while aiming, that then pans back to the previous camera distance just as quickly after the skillshot is taken. So you press the ability of the key, the camera pans in, you aim and click or press the ability key again, and the camera pans back out. I can only see this working if you already have your target centered on your screen in tab targeting camera mode, which certainly is not always the case. There has always been pros and cons in games based on design. If you are having to aim and it is much more difficult to do that kin of attack there are cons and pros of damage. That is no different then in any game to begin with including tab. You have skills that aoe and deal less damage, or you have skills that single target and deal more dmg. Things need to be done on a design level for balance. Having incentives for people to use certain things is completely fine. Just because it is a actions kill doesn't mean all action kills get increased damage that isn't what it is about. If you have a easy aoe to use, that doesn't mean you should be getting increased damage.
Dummo wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Dummo wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Sengarden wrote: » I have to say, I share some of the same concerns as @Dummo , primarily in regards to the player running a rotation relatively camera-blind to suddenly having to re-direct their camera angle directly at an enemy in the distance to execute a proc ability. I suppose you could qualify that as a skill, but an arguably annoying one to master and exercise. Ground targeted abilities are never an issue combining with tab skills, because they're relatively large, ground based targets that don't make you adjust your camera much if at all, but mixing a vague third person landscape / downward angle that generally keeps a full spread of your surroundings in view with intermittent, carefully timed, precise aiming directly in front of your character with a limited window of opportunity? Just sounds like it could be a bit jarring and not a very smooth process visually. But I do like the idea of having a decent amount of aimed skill shots. Especially given the damage it seems like they want abilities like Snipe to put out. That sort of thing should not be tab-target compatible. Archers either need to do high damage with a medium-to-high skill requirement to maintain, or have their damage softened a bit to make up for them being able to kite so easily and auto-target most of their abilities. IMO, this hybrid system needs to lean more towards one side or the other, because trying to make both reticle skill-shots and blind tab firing work together seems like it can only turn out a bit rocky. If you make any part of the ranged system require players to have a good reticle aiming ability to get the most out of their class, the vast majority of tab-centric players will be upset that they're not able to maximize the archetype's potential. If you allow tab players the same ability to output damage as those who choose the more challenging path of utilizing more skill-based abilities, you'll get many action players complaining that their effort isn't worth the trouble of occasionally missing shots or hitting the wrong target in a pack, and likely switching to tab for the majority of content, making much of the effort put into the "hybrid" system a waste of time. I don't want to be a downer, I just have a hard time seeing how Intrepid can actually blend reticle skillshots into a largely tab based rotation without it feeling clunky and jarring. Considering that the "action mode" they showed off in the stream is essentially a soft lock plug-in for the tab system, I'd hesitate to even call an action-targeted ability a skill shot. You stick your cursor anywhere on (or seemingly near) the target and it hits them square in their hitbox. You might as well make the skill shots accessible from tab target mode with a stylized arrow ground decal that moves with your cursor similar to WoW's ranged skillshots that hit the nearest enemy who's hitbox falls on the decal boundary. Both require nothing more than vaguely hovering your cursor over the target, just with a different camera angle and visual aid. I've personally never taken issue with that approach to skillshots in the past. This depends how they balance out systems, if it works one to one with 0 bonuses for extra effort then people will complain. This is why people are mentioning things early, as voicing increased difficulty and getting less is a issue in peoples eyes. Sengarden wrote: » Right, but the opposite side of the coin is that if they don't work one to one with 0 bonuses, then the higher skill system, action, will have the bonuses. There's pros and cons for both of the camera modes, there does not need to be an extra incentive to use either. Ashes of creation combat should not be like top down league / dota style placing circles like you are playing a moba. That sounds terrible if they is what you were kind of suggesting. They just need a intuitive way for camera to be repositioned for action tyle skills or for them to be just used in front of you. If they can figure that out, sure. I don't really see it happening without either having to drag your aim to the target you wish to hit when switching from tab targeting camera mode to reticle camera mode yourself, or the game centering your camera and thus reticle on your target automatically when switching from tab targeting camera mode to reticle camera mode. Both options seem tedious. Sengarden wrote: » For enemy-targeted skillshots at least, I can sort of visualize what a smooth camera transition would look like, but it would have to be more up-close and centered right over the player's shoulder. A smooth, but relatively quick transition, with the camera's distance from the player being locked in while aiming, that then pans back to the previous camera distance just as quickly after the skillshot is taken. So you press the ability of the key, the camera pans in, you aim and click or press the ability key again, and the camera pans back out. I can only see this working if you already have your target centered on your screen in tab targeting camera mode, which certainly is not always the case. There has always been pros and cons in games based on design. If you are having to aim and it is much more difficult to do that kin of attack there are cons and pros of damage. That is no different then in any game to begin with including tab. You have skills that aoe and deal less damage, or you have skills that single target and deal more dmg. Things need to be done on a design level for balance. Having incentives for people to use certain things is completely fine. Just because it is a actions kill doesn't mean all action kills get increased damage that isn't what it is about. If you have a easy aoe to use, that doesn't mean you should be getting increased damage. I just meant pros and cons when comparing the tab target camera mode and the reticle camera mode. Both of those modes have their own advantages. There does not need to be an extra incentive in that regard.
Mag7spy wrote: » Just because something may have an advantage in a certain situation does not mean that will be the norm of combat.
But ill humor you, in what advantage is there to use action camera over tab (as you don't need to look at a target to it in a fight.)
What advantage is there to a skill you need to aim and shoot and projectile, over a tab skill that will automatically shoot the projectile at the target instantly and hit the target?
If the person using tab target can deal double the amount of damage to a target on average, you are fine action combat has "advantages" based on your perception on what is an advantage to you if it is weaker in most scenarios?
Sengarden wrote: » Honestly, I wish they would just stick with the soft lock reticle system. Press a button to engage "combat mode" press it again to get your cursor back. Fighting in a soft-lock reticle mode is basically click targeting with a small margin of error, without the need to actually click, and with a BUILT IN tab targeting option without leaving the reticle view! Keeping it to only this system would make camera adjustments for skillshots in combat way less visually jarring. Having the camera zoom in and out from an average tab combat perspective quickly enough to actually make combat flow well and not get in the way of missing skillshot opportunities sounds awful, no matter how smooth the transition is, especially given how far away from their toon some people keep their tab-combat MMO cams. If they would just pick one and roll with it, dev time would be cut down and they'd actually have a solid combat direction to aim for (no pun intended).
No, that's basically down to preference, unless there's an extra incentive added that will actually make one camera mode better than the other.
An example would be that the reticle camera mode offers an easier and quicker way to select/shoot an easy to select target. Besides that it also offers the tab targeting the tab target camera mode offers, just less overview. The tab target camera mode on the other hand offers an easier way to select a harder to select target, for example in a larger crowd. In other words, more overview.
I don't see how the tab targeting camera mode would make you deal double the amount of damage on average, if you just hit your shots with the softlock aiming in the reticle camera mode, ...ór just use the tab targeting in the reticle camera mode.
Sengarden wrote: » If they would just pick one and roll with it, dev time would be cut down and they'd actually have a solid combat direction to aim for (no pun intended).
