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This is the kind of combat I expect to see from a modern mmorpg, full action, manual aiming/evading.

2

Comments

  • DakHakDakHak Member
    It's New World. Looks almost identical. I like it. I like New World. I also like tab targetting.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member
    edited October 6
    Heartbeat wrote: »
    I think because Steven seems to focus on Action Combat as aiming.
    I consider Action Combat in an RPG to include active Block, Dodge, Roll.
    I haven't seen much of that in the Ashes combat demos.


    We have literally seen Block, dodge and roll in both previews of combat. Go and rewatch the melee one for block and dodge (which btw, can just mean, walk away from the melee hit) and the Ranger one has plenty of rolling (maybe just the magic spells were homing, but doesn't mean all mob attacks will be).
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited October 6
    Sathrago wrote: »
    In the melee video there were short blinks and blocks. In the ranged video we e had rolls.
    I think that's enough evidence for it.
    Those Blinks are most likely an Active Skill or augment, so... I don't count those as active Dodge, Roll.
    Ranged Combat demo, Steven does Roll twice in 27 minutes. Blink and you will miss it.
    So, again, we don't see much of it in the demos. Which doesn't mean they are non-existent.
    Just that Steven primarily focuses on Action Combat as aiming with a reticle.
    (It actually crossed my mind, Sunday, that maybe Steven is not the best person to demo combat.) ??
  • XenotorXenotor Member
    edited October 6
    Pure action combat is sadly impossible with 250 vs 250 or even 500 vs 500.
    Not be-course the tech is missing but be-course the internet connection is not good enough across the world.

    You have to keep in mind that everything everyone does is information that needs to first go to the server and then go to the players.
    Every single arrow, spell shot. Not just that while its in the air, you have to know its position compared to every player in the battle.
    Otherwise player A may see Player B get hit while player B saw himself dodging with ease and still taking damage.

    So while i am a big fan of pure action combat,I don't think i can happen yet
    At least not with mass battles in mind.

    I am not sure how Ashes plans for Active Blocking to work in the massive 250 vs 250 PVP battles they promised.
    At least without people constantly seeing themself dodge or block only to still take damage.
    Or seeing an attack hit only for no damage to appear.
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 6
    Sorry man... I really don't like it, when I think MMORPG I think Tank... Healer... DPS.... skill rotation and massive raids and PvP, that combat you shared is fun, but not in MMORPGs, I love playing mordhau or chiv 2 tho - and mortal online 2 does a good job incorporating that combat, but still, I can't consider it an actual mmorpg... feels like a survival/slasher MMO
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  • MyosotysMyosotys Member
    edited October 6
    rpgmaniac wrote: »

    "If you stick with tab-target combat you will automatically exclude a major portion of PVP players that have quit playing tab-target mmorpg for a long time now & don't expect them to make an exception for your game because for all of them it's all about how the combat feels & if the combat doesn't feel right they won't touch a game ever, so if you really want your game to be successful & attract the vast majority of the PVP crowd out there you need to scrap entirely the outdated tab-target combat system from your game & start working on a modern full action combat system where we must manually aim all our attacks & all attacks can be evaded"

    To be able to understand what is better for gameplay between Tab-targeting and action combat, it is necessary to know precisely the mechanics of the game.

    For example, will there be passive dodging skills?

    If yes, then why not a Tab-targeting?

    Will the combos be complicated? If yes, how can you do complex combos when you have to aim at your target ?

    Tab-targeting is a bit old school but old school MMOs are good too...

    Would the game engine make an action-only combat mode viable?

    I'm just asking because I just arrived on this forum and discovered this promising game.

    I don't necessarily agree with the fact that Tab-targetting will push away PvP players. It will only push away those who don't like tab-targeting.

    But basically, I agree that tab-targeting in a 3D universe can seem quite outdated.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    In the melee video there were short blinks and blocks. In the ranged video we e had rolls.
    I think that's enough evidence for it.
    Those Blinks are most likely an Active Skill or augment, so... I don't count those as active Dodge, Roll.
    Ranged Combat demo, Steven does Roll twice in 27 minutes. Blink and you will miss it.
    So, again, we don't see much of it in the demos. Which doesn't mean they are non-existent.
    Just that Steven primarily focuses on Action Combat as aiming with a reticle.
    (It actually crossed my mind, Sunday, that maybe Steven is not the best person to demo combat.) ??

    He's not. He does these recordings completely blind it seems and has not practiced with the game at all. I assume because hes just busy, but it would be nice if he wasn't a chicken with its head cut off every single time a combat update comes out.
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  • Xenotor wrote: »
    Pure action combat is sadly impossible with 250 vs 250 or even 500 vs 500.
    Not be-course the tech is missing but be-course the internet connection is not good enough across the world.

    You have to keep in mind that everything everyone does is information that needs to first go to the server and then go to the players.
    Every single arrow, spell shot. Not just that while its in the air, you have to know its position compared to every player in the battle.
    Otherwise player A may see Player B get hit while player B saw himself dodging with ease and still taking damage.

    So while i am a big fan of pure action combat,I don't think i can happen yet
    At least not with mass battles in mind.

    I am not sure how Ashes plans for Active Blocking to work in the massive 250 vs 250 PVP battles they promised.
    At least without people constantly seeing themself dodge or block only to still take damage.
    Or seeing an attack hit only for no damage to appear.

    this is inaccurate. you would be surprised how little internet you need to play any game, even an mmorpg, even in a large scale fight.

    regarding arrows, spells, etc, you would still track them, but you dont track every unit and the collision is more important anyways, in both action or targetted combat
  • Dude mistakes mmo with fps

    Here we go again..

    Modern Warfare is coming out very soon, you gonna love it.
  • For the action combat bit of the ''hybrid combat'' ye for sure. The kind of combat shown in the video you posted could definitely be utilized...and uh it's a little funny people going ''tHis Is An MmO nOt FpS'' as if having aimed abilities has anything to do with FPS games...guess shows how out of touch some people are with the gaming genres overall :p
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  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    This thread is a good example of why going one route or the other (in regard to full action or full tab) will never please everyone.

    We sincerely believe that the hybrid system we're developing will be fun and engaging for most players! With that said, in my own opinion, it's kind of hard to gauge what the combat of a game is truly like until you've really had your hands on it. So, we hope to get A2 to y'all ASAP so you can feel out the combat system! ^_^
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  • Magic ManMagic Man Member
    edited October 6
    Vaknar wrote: »
    This thread is a good example of why going one route or the other (in regard to full action or full tab) will never please everyone.

    We sincerely believe that the hybrid system we're developing will be fun and engaging for most players! With that said, in my own opinion, it's kind of hard to gauge what the combat of a game is truly like until you've really had your hands on it. So, we hope to get A2 to y'all ASAP so you can feel out the combat system! ^_^

    True true. How the combat ''feels'' is really important, and there is no way to know till we try it, as you say. Though I hope to see some aimed ranged abilities in the future streams and It'd be great to see them in the context of 'revamped combat system'. I also believe that how both action and tab will function in the game needs to be clarified (in terms of damage and balancing in general). For example, we already know hard cc abilities will be action while soft ones tab* - but what else? Clarifying that and showing how both combat systems function well with one another would clear away much of the confusion ❤️👍

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  • wintertidewintertide Member
    edited October 6
    Solvryn wrote: »
    "If you stick with tab-target combat you will automatically exclude a major portion of PVP players that have quit playing tab-target mmorpg for a long time now & don't expect them to make an exception for your game because for all of them it's all about how the combat feels & if the combat doesn't feel right they won't touch a game ever, so if you really want your game to be successful & attract the vast majority of the PVP crowd out there you need to scrap entirely the outdated tab-target combat system from your game & start working on a modern full action combat system where we must manually aim all our attacks & all attacks can be evaded"

    If I wanted that gameplay, I would just go play Doom. I certainly wouldn't play the game you linked, or some MMORPG that attempted to emulate it. You have an entirely inflated view of your preferred playstyle that simply doesn't have any evidence that it's based in reality.
  • Asgerr wrote: »
    Not gonna lie, that gameplay looks incredibly boring. If I want to play that I'll just go play Chivalry 2.

    Yeah, after watching that, if I had considered trying Conquerors Blade, I no longer am.
  • all i want is for other players to be able to block ranged attacks (including magic) in tab target mode. example, if im a healer and a ranger shoots at me in action mode, another person can block the arrow and save me, or i could stand behind a tank and the ranger would hit the tank when aiming at me. if this also works for tab targetting, then it will be great and it can save people from dying instantly to a bunch of dudes clicking you then pressing 1 at the same time.

    i want to be able to stand behind my tank, and even if the enemy archer has me selected as his target in tab targetting mode, the arrow should hit the tank, not me
  • The inclusion of Action-combat is a neat touch.

    I don't want AoC to be a 1st-person shooter, though.



  • wrmswrms Member
    I think I would prefer a well done action combat over tab targeting. I haven't played every MMO that's been out, but I still think Tera had the best combat among the ones I have played, noting that I have not played BDO which many people praise for its action combat. I imagine there are others I have missed as well which might have been better.

    That said, I don't see the skill you are claiming is involved here. To me it just looks like the archer class is just OP. Why is a short bow repeatedly tripping what appears to be a heavy armor class? And why does the archer have such high defense that even when they do get cornered, they frequently manage to tank so many hits and escape? There also seems to be a deficit of skill among the archers opponents who continually ignore him, letting him keep pinging shots away. If his opponents weren't incompetent there wouldn't be a highlight reel here. The archer doesn't look particularly skilled to me.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think you want this game to be an inspiration for AoC because it is so well balanced. I think you want it to be an inspiration because you want there to be an OP class who gets to destroy the other classes.

    But even if I'm misreading that, this combat is not exciting to me. As other commenters have said, there are games that cater to this style of combat already. I don't expect that AoC will undergo a radical change in its approach to combat, which is ok, if they make an effort to balance it, tab target combat can still be fun. But even if they did switch to a more action combat style, I would not want them to emulate this game.
  • Good day to yall ^^
    I really liked the combat preview from the archer it Shows how promising this game is and makes me exited to get my paws on it. I really want to the ppl @ intrepid for showing us their awesome work.
    As for my input:
    I think the way they re goin looks good and the Archiv is good. Regarding the dodgeroll i dont think it needs a 100% evasion from a hit as it is a hybrid game but gering a slight buff for higher evasion Chance. Cuz it would make dex builds that Focus on evasion/ crit rather useless every1 can just roll around during a pvp Match and evade everything due to i-frames from rolls.
    As for skill in fighting there is always a certain amount of skill needed because u need to know how ur class works, how the oponents class works to a certain extent and there is still a uncertainty due to different builds/gear Set up/religion/race from my perspectiv i think the pvp would b a quite fun challange because there is so much that could change the outcome.
  • Vaknar wrote: »
    This thread is a good example of why going one route or the other (in regard to full action or full tab) will never please everyone.

    We sincerely believe that the hybrid system we're developing will be fun and engaging for most players! With that said, in my own opinion, it's kind of hard to gauge what the combat of a game is truly like until you've really had your hands on it. So, we hope to get A2 to y'all ASAP so you can feel out the combat system! ^_^

    ASAP ;o
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  • So is healing also aimed? Full action combat shouldn't have healing targeted spells either, so healers can show off their skills.
  • BlackBrony wrote: »
    So is healing also aimed? Full action combat shouldn't have healing targeted spells either, so healers can show off their skills.

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  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Believe it or not, one of the latest overwatch supports has a heal that rewards tracking teammates with your reticle.
    Yes, it is a thing
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • maouw wrote: »
    Believe it or not, one of the latest overwatch supports has a heal that rewards tracking teammates with your reticle.
    Yes, it is a thing

    Yeah and for most players its the worst healer in the game because its stupid hard to do when half the overwatch roster has speed boosts, rolls, tumbles, leaps, dashes, teleports, etc.
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  • Well, 50% of players have below average action-combat ranged targeting skill, and they will appreciate tab targeting to be competitive against the other 50%, who would feel happier killing the subaverage with their better skills. So a system that supports both is the only system that has a chance of pleasing more than 50%, albeit perhaps only slightly. So IMO AoC have got the right system to satisfy the most players.

    Somewhat controversially, speaking as a lower skilled player, losing the top 10% of 'skill only' superb players will make my gameplay more enjoyable. But that would be a shame. So perhaps there should be a bonus for hits using action targeting, that usually requires more player skill. Like 5% extra damage because you were able 'to land the shot perfectly where it hurts'.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 10
    Sathrago wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    Believe it or not, one of the latest overwatch supports has a heal that rewards tracking teammates with your reticle.
    Yes, it is a thing

    Yeah and for most players its the worst healer in the game because its stupid hard to do when half the overwatch roster has speed boosts, rolls, tumbles, leaps, dashes, teleports, etc.

    We had such characters in Paladins (another team fighter) as well when the game was still decently balanced. Paladins has less volatility in its movement and a little less emphasis on vertacality in it's maps. Tab target healers were usually better at lower levels of play yes, but reticle and aimed aoe healers definitely had their advantages so they still saw competitive play. The pace of the game just allows for it.

    Do you want Ashes to be OverWatch speed with that much volatility and verticality?
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  • BlackBrony wrote: »
    So is healing also aimed? Full action combat shouldn't have healing targeted spells either, so healers can show off their skills.

    Skill is not related to support healing and buffs 0 reason to make that more competitive when it is a cooperative element.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member
    edited October 11
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    So is healing also aimed? Full action combat shouldn't have healing targeted spells either, so healers can show off their skills.

    Skill is not related to support healing and buffs 0 reason to make that more competitive when it is a cooperative element.

    What is the reasoning behind this? Why is not related? Please give me a reason. If aiming = skills, then the same concept should apply to healing.
    Why suddenly for healing aiming != skill?
    Does this means that healing is a lesser role? If I care about skills and action combat why would I want to play a healer that doesn't show off my skills?
    On another note, aiming is a skill, so why would I gimp my skills over time by picking a role that doesn't make me better at PvP?
  • BlackBrony wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    So is healing also aimed? Full action combat shouldn't have healing targeted spells either, so healers can show off their skills.

    Skill is not related to support healing and buffs 0 reason to make that more competitive when it is a cooperative element.

    What is the reasoning behind this? Why is not related? Please give me a reason. If aiming = skills, then the same concept should apply to healing.
    Why suddenly for healing aiming != skill?
    Does this means that healing is a lesser role? If I care about skills and action combat why would I want to play a healer that doesn't show off my skills?
    On another note, aiming is a skill, so why would I gimp my skills over time by picking a role that doesn't make me better at PvP?

    Why do people prefer action combat, answer that question.
  • No thanks, just have some action skills and leave the rest as tab.
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