Gandalfthegrape wrote: » NiKr wrote: » @Gandalfthegrape you haven't read the wiki properly. Caravan's zone is an opt-in system. When you come across a caravan or it just happens to ride up to you, you'll be asked "do you want to attack or defend or ignore the caravan". And unless you choose either of the first two options, you won't participate in the pvp for the caravan. It costs me absolutely nothing to just walk or mount over to a different town all the while I have at the very least a false sense of security. It costs me an incredible amount of time and energy and I have the risk of losing tonnes of stuff all at once using the caravans. How many resources am I going to need to craft anything if my inventory and bank isn't enough already? How will I even hold all these items if my inventory and bank isn't enough to get them to the caravan. I would rather just walk every time. I would rather do 10 trips and risk dying 1 out of 10 trips losing a single inventory, than transporting everything at once and risk losing it all. Loss aversion is HUGE. I can't see this being something people are going to use if there isn't a massive incentive to do so.
NiKr wrote: » @Gandalfthegrape you haven't read the wiki properly. Caravan's zone is an opt-in system. When you come across a caravan or it just happens to ride up to you, you'll be asked "do you want to attack or defend or ignore the caravan". And unless you choose either of the first two options, you won't participate in the pvp for the caravan.
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » No sorry thats my mistake. Wall
Strevi wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » NiKr wrote: » @Gandalfthegrape you haven't read the wiki properly. Caravan's zone is an opt-in system. When you come across a caravan or it just happens to ride up to you, you'll be asked "do you want to attack or defend or ignore the caravan". And unless you choose either of the first two options, you won't participate in the pvp for the caravan. It costs me absolutely nothing to just walk or mount over to a different town all the while I have at the very least a false sense of security. It costs me an incredible amount of time and energy and I have the risk of losing tonnes of stuff all at once using the caravans. How many resources am I going to need to craft anything if my inventory and bank isn't enough already? How will I even hold all these items if my inventory and bank isn't enough to get them to the caravan. I would rather just walk every time. I would rather do 10 trips and risk dying 1 out of 10 trips losing a single inventory, than transporting everything at once and risk losing it all. Loss aversion is HUGE. I can't see this being something people are going to use if there isn't a massive incentive to do so. I've read the wall of text. This part is the essence (I formatted it a bit). And yes, I am curious too. Somebody should ask on reddit, for this AMA session with Steven. My thinking is that killing once will give just a slight corruption. Will be almost like there is none. In that case, players who search for caravans will also kill you easily and take your resources. Will you try doing the next trip hoping that those bandits will spare you at the 2nd trip? They are 10 of them... It will be safer to join into a caravan defended by 10 players than going alone.
Depraved wrote: » ^ you can farm stuff in one region, then use the caravans to transport them to another region and make 4x-5x the profit. so 1 hour of farm yields 4-5 hours of profit
NiKr wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » No sorry thats my mistake. Wall A caravan = 100 runs. And those are back and forth runs and not just one-offs. And depending on how fast a mule can walk (I'd personally hope slower than a caravan), you might be able to cut down some time using it. But if you're running somewhere with a mule, PKing you will be one of the most appealing things in the game. Using a mule will mean that you have potentially x10 of a person's inventory. And even if you fight back and the mule only drops half of what a green one would drop - that would most likely still be more than a full inventory of stuff. Running a caravan saves you time and pushes you to be more social (cause you'd probably need protection or to share the caravan with other people). But yes, I do believe that caravans will most likely be run by guilds, with most other caravans just being mayoral and quest-based ones.
mcnasty wrote: » they could all just be in discord together talking about how to avoid the boss mechanics.
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » mcnasty wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » If players can fully avoid boss mechanics that's generally called exploiting Good point. Stand in the fire or get banned for exploiting. lol There is clearly a difference between avoiding a boss mechanic like fire by moving slightly to the left, and casing dots on the boss, leaving the raid and coming back when it dies because the raid wasn't thought out properly.
mcnasty wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » If players can fully avoid boss mechanics that's generally called exploiting Good point. Stand in the fire or get banned for exploiting. lol
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » If players can fully avoid boss mechanics that's generally called exploiting
mcnasty wrote: » mcnasty wrote: » they could all just be in discord together talking about how to avoid the boss mechanics. Gandalfthegrape wrote: » mcnasty wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » If players can fully avoid boss mechanics that's generally called exploiting Good point. Stand in the fire or get banned for exploiting. lol There is clearly a difference between avoiding a boss mechanic like fire by moving slightly to the left, and casing dots on the boss, leaving the raid and coming back when it dies because the raid wasn't thought out properly. Exactly. And this is why your original response to me was misguided and nonsensical. At this point it seems you are either not speaking in good faith, or there are other mental issues at play. In either case, I'm done and must block you. Farewell and good luck with your text walls.
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » NiKr wrote: » @Gandalfthegrape you haven't read the wiki properly. Caravan's zone is an opt-in system. When you come across a caravan or it just happens to ride up to you, you'll be asked "do you want to attack or defend or ignore the caravan". And unless you choose either of the first two options, you won't participate in the pvp for the caravan. It costs me absolutely nothing to just walk or mount over to a different town all the while I have at the very least a false sense of security. It costs me an incredible amount of time and energy and I have the risk of losing tonnes of stuff all at once using the caravans. How many resources am I going to need to craft anything if my inventory and bank isn't enough already? How will I even hold all these items if my inventory and bank isn't enough to get them to the caravan. I would rather just walk every time. I would rather do 10 trips and risk dying 1 out of 10 trips losing a single inventory, than transporting everything at once and risk losing it all. Loss aversion is HUGE. I can't see this being something people are going to use if there isn't a massive incentive to do so. I've read the wall of text. This part is the essence (I formatted it a bit). And yes, I am curious too. Somebody should ask on reddit, for this AMA session with Steven. My thinking is that killing once will give just a slight corruption. Will be almost like there is none. In that case, players who search for caravans will also kill you easily and take your resources. Will you try doing the next trip hoping that those bandits will spare you at the 2nd trip? They are 10 of them... It will be safer to join into a caravan defended by 10 players than going alone. That's a very polite way of saying I need to talk less, 10/10 If they regularly go after players who are part of a caravan they won't get the debuff. If they go after players not in a caravan they will keep getting what i'm assuming is stacks of the debuff, or is scales in an aggressive exponential way. So the incentive for any player who wants to do consensual pvp or to grief other players will almost always go for the caravan. I would rather go alone and hope they don't kill me a second time, they are doing more damage to themselves than me. I would probably just go over with an empty inventory and taunt them saying I have good stuff on me and their mom gave it to me for the awesome job I did last night, want it back? Or id probably go farm an inventory of resources on my way over so I don't lose my bank stuff to retest the waters. As soon as they added dishonorable kills in wow classic it killed city raids instantly and anyone who had any incentive at all to do well in pvp would straight up ban and blacklist you from major pvp guilds if you got a dhk while in a group with others. I would risk a solo ride every time over putting my stuff in a location where people have a greenlight to attack me. Im kind of curious if you don't select the defend or ignore and you walk into fighting aoe on the caravan you're either immortal or you can give everyone who kills you the bad boi debuff probably? If you're immortal im just going to follow a caravan around and not join it to move my stuff. If I don't select anything and it makes me a combatant for everyone you could go kill afk players with no consequence. If I can give everyone the bad boi debuff im just going to follow the caravan around and stand in their aoe to intentionally die. If it teleports me out after a set time you could also grief push someone off a cliff or into mobs.
Non-forced attacks (such as AoE) will not hit non-combatant players.[124]
That's a very polite way of saying I need to talk less, 10/10
If they regularly go after players who are part of a caravan they won't get the debuff. If they go after players not in a caravan they will keep getting what i'm assuming is stacks of the debuff, or is scales in an aggressive exponential way. So the incentive for any player who wants to do consensual pvp or to grief other players will almost always go for the caravan. I would rather go alone and hope they don't kill me a second time, they are doing more damage to themselves than me. I would probably just go over with an empty inventory and taunt them saying I have good stuff on me and their mom gave it to me for the awesome job I did last night, want it back? Or id probably go farm an inventory of resources on my way over so I don't lose my bank stuff to retest the waters. As soon as they added dishonorable kills in wow classic it killed city raids instantly and anyone who had any incentive at all to do well in pvp would straight up ban and blacklist you from major pvp guilds if you got a dhk while in a group with others. I would risk a solo ride every time over putting my stuff in a location where people have a greenlight to attack me.
Insurance can also be requested (if this is enabled by the caravan owner) which will go into escrow. If the caravan is destroyed, that escrow will go to the named player.[5][6]
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » Depraved wrote: » ^ you can farm stuff in one region, then use the caravans to transport them to another region and make 4x-5x the profit. so 1 hour of farm yields 4-5 hours of profit That's interesting I haven't heard that before. Could you please link it so I could find out more about that?
Depraved wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » Depraved wrote: » ^ you can farm stuff in one region, then use the caravans to transport them to another region and make 4x-5x the profit. so 1 hour of farm yields 4-5 hours of profit That's interesting I haven't heard that before. Could you please link it so I could find out more about that? he said it in one of the live streams =x
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » "AoE will not damage you, no matter if is caravan or normal fight between two parties." Do you happen to know if that includes skill shots or toggling into free fire mode for the archer class?
Strevi wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » "AoE will not damage you, no matter if is caravan or normal fight between two parties." Do you happen to know if that includes skill shots or toggling into free fire mode for the archer class? The quoteNon-forced attacks (such as AoE) will not hit non-combatant players.[124] I got it from https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging This is to prevent killing a green accidentally and becoming corrupted while doing damage to the proper target. There is one more therePlayers will be able to opt-in (via a checkbox) to allow their beneficial or non-beneficial AoEs to hit flagged players. If this is checked then AoE heals or damage will affect flagged players. If it is not checked then the AoE will not damage or heal any flagged players, and as such will not cause the caster to be flagged themselves (if they are not already).[18] Regarding free fire mode I see they work like AoE attacksAttacking without a target (blind firing) is possible in action mode for templated abilities. If a target moves into the path of the projectile it can be struck.[15][16][7]https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Combat_targetingTemplated abilities are skills that do not require a target, such as line attacks, AoE attacks, or cone attacks.[1] https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Definition:Templated-abilities So the intention is to make those arrows pass through you if you are a green neutral player who jumps in-between the fighters.
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » You can do this very easily in wow, Half the player base quit wow classic because they kept getting killed trying to access brd and mc. If this game has literally any kind of spamable aoe you can do it here too. Yes you can hold off 200 people with 20 at a choke point because 20 people spamming aoe in 1 location is enough to create an instant vaporization barrier that nothing can cross.
Dygz wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » You can do this very easily in wow, Half the player base quit wow classic because they kept getting killed trying to access brd and mc. If this game has literally any kind of spamable aoe you can do it here too. Yes you can hold off 200 people with 20 at a choke point because 20 people spamming aoe in 1 location is enough to create an instant vaporization barrier that nothing can cross. 200 is not an entire server. So. hyperbole. At best. OK. Ashes is not WoW.
Depraved wrote: » he said 4-5 times iirc
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » You can do this very easily in wow, Half the player base quit wow classic because they kept getting killed trying to access brd and mc. If this game has literally any kind of spamable aoe you can do it here too. Yes you can hold off 200 people with 20 at a choke point because 20 people spamming aoe in 1 location is enough to create an instant vaporization barrier that nothing can cross. 200 is not an entire server. So. hyperbole. At best. OK. Ashes is not WoW. Who said the server had a 200 pop? The way people behave in games is basically the same regardless of the game.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory It's not hyperbole when people say it constantly.https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/what-made-you-quit-classic/123423/7 "I have got to be honest I stopped playing on several alts when they released the honour system I was just being ganked left right and center lol I just didn’t see the fun in corpse running for most of my 4 available hours per night. Being lvl 51 I was an honourable kill to everyone. Making it impossible to even finish a quest." "One sided pvp except in low lvl area" "People abusing backdoors, roofs and exploits generally without any consequences" "no action is being taken against bots, abusers, griefers"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mflmj4KsmKAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZnfU5AbrM4 Griefing ruins games. Allowing people to have opportunities to grief makes people leave the game. The best tactic to defeat a clan in Rust isn't to raid them. It's to tc block their base and wall them in forcing them to ladder through wire to farm explosives to get their base back, let them rage quit to another server or for the wipe then wait for their base to decay inside a compound you control. Rust resets every week this game doesn't. So you know nothing you achieve besides blueprints will continue over to the next wipe. Making everything you lose have no meaning. If you have a world where you can put in hundreds of hours into farming and have it get destroyed after a single group wipe or death or even when you are offline, the majority of people won't play. People play mmos for longevity. If a significant amount of stuff you get isn't relevant in the future most people won't want to play. This is why people liked classic, tbc, and wrath better than shadowlands. Every piece of gear you get in shadowlands is irrelevant after 5 more raids or 10 more dungeons. I'm still using tbc pvp gear raiding nax in wrath. This is why people hated new world in the beta. If you can lose 100 inventories worth of loot because you think you're guild or mayor didn't do a good job and you died and lost everything you are less likely to put in a bunch of effort to refarm everything and more likely to play another game. People losing a bunch of their stuff is a larger de motivator and quit moment than losing your buffs or walking back to your corpse. The more you can lose the more likely you are to quit. aoe works the same way in every game. You do small amounts of damage to many targets. When you have many aoe spells overlapping it does huge damage to many things. If you have enough people using aoe the location becomes impassable. You need to enter the aoe in order to be in range to counter the aoe. You die instantly. This can range from 1 player in dorms in tarkov spamming grenades to a lesser extent, to 10-20 players in wow choking brm. If you have mandatory or semi mandatory locations that people feel they need to access and they can't get there due to aoe walling or just solo griefing. The alternative is to not do the content, and for a majority of players if they can't do the content they will think why am I paying money for this. Aoe itself isn't an issue, it's just a way of doing damage. Being able to use it to block people and grief people is the issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYbe69Iebcchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNi-jWYeVQMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0v2YeVufSghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-2863soxrIhttps://youtu.be/SgMZEykCyk4?t=1354https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_(artillery)#Standing_and_box_barrages
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » Depraved wrote: » he said 4-5 times iirc Do you happen to know if he was talking about a multiplier for when it reached its destination or that was an estimate for what they think the market value would be?
Gandalfthegrape wrote: » Who said the server had a 200 pop?
Dygz wrote: » Gandalfthegrape wrote: » Who said the server had a 200 pop? You asked: "What's to stop me from taking a caravan to a location in the world where there is an important quest npc and also a choke point, hiding the caravan within that choke point and having 8 -14 people just aoe the choke preventing literally the entire server from accessing that location while at the same time receiving no penalty as we are all inside the pvp area." When I replied, "You won't last long against an entire server..." You responded with, " Yes you can hold off 200 people with 20 at a choke point because 20 people spamming aoe in 1 location is enough to create an instant vaporization barrier that nothing can cross." Hyperbole and moving goalposts... Which is fine, but... apparently, you literally don't now what you're talking about.
