Do you like the theme/lore of the world?

I gotta say, I like a hell of a lot about the direction and game design of Ashes of Creation, but the one thing I just can't get into is the theme of the world. It just feels painfully generic high fantasy. Obviously, as someone who's been playing RPGs in one form or another since the early 90s, I certainly enjoy high fantasy, but in the case of Ashes, it just feels like something is missing, and I'm not quite sure why.

It might be that I don't really see what the core "story" or backbone that everything revolves around is? There's obviously lore, but it's feels like a loosely connected set of necessary lore items, like "well we have to have gods and we have to have a creation story," but those things all feel sort of ancillary to nothing. Is there actually some central issue or fact about the world that's unique, specific, and always at least somewhat present? For some games, this might be a factional conflict or a natural disaster that's impacted the whole world or everyone being marooned on a mysterious island that defies scientific laws or whatever.

I'm thinking that the more generic the game world is, the more important it is to have some central focus, some twist, whatever it is, just something to give the world its own unique character. The only successful MMOs I can think of that don't have that something instead have very non-generic worlds, like GW2.

What do y'all think?

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WHIT3ROS3

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I don't watch and read everything that comes out. In fact, I don't watch or read the vast majority of what comes out.

This is great...

"I don't read or watch most of the stuff"

"Why is it missing all this stuff???"

LOL, Deary me.

Taleof2Cities

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

The things you've mentioned aren't missing...

I don't watch and read everything that comes out. In fact, I don't watch or read the vast majority of what comes out. For someone like me, most of what you said is not apparent from looking through the web site or Wiki.

But hopefully you did read somewhere that the game is still in Alpha … ?

Solmyr

From what we've seen so far, no. It's way too high fantasy for my tastes, to the point where it's difficult to relate with.

Everyone is immortal, everyone can use magic (judging from the skill showcases, even fighters are constantly casting spells), every other armor set is a ridiculously overdesigned masterpiece fit for a king, every other monster is a bioluminescent magical hybrid something-or-other, etc. etc.

Maybe it's just a side effect of their current marketing being all cosmetic-focused, but I hope the final product shows a little more restraint.

DarkTides

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I gotta say, I like a hell of a lot about the direction and game design of Ashes of Creation, but the one thing I just can't get into is the theme of the world. It just feels painfully generic high fantasy. Obviously, as someone who's been playing RPGs in one form or another since the early 90s, I certainly enjoy high fantasy, but in the case of Ashes, it just feels like something is missing, and I'm not quite sure why.

It might be that I don't really see what the core "story" or backbone that everything revolves around is? There's obviously lore, but it's feels like a loosely connected set of necessary lore items, like "well we have to have gods and we have to have a creation story," but those things all feel sort of ancillary to nothing. Is there actually some central issue or fact about the world that's unique, specific, and always at least somewhat present? For some games, this might be a factional conflict or a natural disaster that's impacted the whole world or everyone being marooned on a mysterious island that defies scientific laws or whatever.

I'm thinking that the more generic the game world is, the more important it is to have some central focus, some twist, whatever it is, just something to give the world its own unique character. The only successful MMOs I can think of that don't have that something instead have very non-generic worlds, like GW2.

What do y'all think?

I find myself in a similar situation, with respect to Lore. Can't really put my finger on it though. It might just be the names given to everything...like The Ten, The Ancients, The Three -> The Others, but it is likely the Lore that we need to uncover in game.

We have a very rich lore on the pantheon of gods, but it's something that I want to make sure players discover in-game, not told about.[9] – Steven Sharif

Everquest pantheon of Gods similarities.

We have a little bit of Warhammer Realm of Chaos goin on, with the Void and corruption.

We have a little bit of Lord of the Rings going on, with delving into the deep, darker creatures arise.

Some King Arthas(WoW) and Naggash(Warhammer) vibes with King Atrax

WHIT3ROS3

Solmyr wrote: »

From what we've seen so far, no. It's way too high fantasy for my tastes, to the point where it's difficult to relate with.

This is a good point. Not every animal needs to be a crazy new unique creation. Not every furniture item needs to be some special bespoke racially augmented royal artifact. Not every POI needs to be some supernatural amazingness. Not every building needs to be an architectural marvel.

I felt a little this way when we saw the "Tower of Carphin" off in the distance in the recent Dev stream. They mentioned that it is under some kind of curse, so perhaps the weird lava-type stuff is that curse, but honestly, I thought it kind of just looked like an unrendered object or graphical glitch rather than a cool tower. I'm sure we will learn more... but it felt very... removed.

I love high fantasy but have always felt that the best high fantasy, is that which also contains a fair amount of "gritty realism". A foundation of "normal" on which cathedrals of craziness can be built.

Tyranthraxus

Essentially, you're not asking about the game-mechanics; You're particularly interested the Lore the we have been given, thus far.

....Personal feelings?

It's a very good choice for game-setting, and I'll justify the statement/claim. For starters?

Reclaimations are such a *RIPE* and excellent choice of game-setting! Do you realize that the original 1988 DnD video game "The Pool of Radiance" mirrored this setting, nearly dead-on? A major city-state(Phlan) - devastated by un-fathomable disaster - is being re-settled by both common folk and Adventureres alike! Un-told horrors await the bold and the intrepid(ah-ha!), as the horrors of the Old World are finally tamed, after a LONG period of darkness....

Tyranthraxus

In addition?

We're in the unanimous role of a people coming to a world of popular, visual, self-evident *MAGIC*, from a world where such a thing is only legend and myth(or at least as far as any of you mortals are concerned). Everyone will - at the launch of the game - share one thing in-common: We are all Sanctans - as have been our ancestors, for about the last three millenia.

Will this change, in-time?

Quite possibly! Yours truly genuinely feels that AoC has the potential to grow into the most-populated and long-lasting MMORPG of this age, and can set the precedent for online games, for years to come! By selecting quality over quantity, the business model of the game distinctly favors long-term players and subscription retention - DEFINITELY something to get behind! If we last long enough? 10+ years in, there may be a whole breed of incoming player that identifies as people born on Verra.

Tyranthraxus

Finally: in choosing a high-fantasy setting in the PAST, versus the FUTURE?

You're not making any predictions about the future-to-come; You're taking modern imagination and applying it to a setting of the past. In doing so, there is no wrong - in that you're NOT making any predictions about things to come. Instead? You're making time-less observations about how our modern technology and thinking (and concepts about fantasy-magic!) would've changed the world that our ancestors inhabited for the better.... At least in our minds.

There will be no retrospective on how right-or-wrong AoC was about the fantasies we had in our time about the future; It will instead be a unique artwork that represents the modern gamer's reflections of what online, interdependent gaming should evolve to become!

Ironhope

Very much if well implemented.

We got

- deserts
- forests
- jungles
- volcano lands
- undead lands
- icelands
- mountains
- sea coasts
- islands
etc

if these are well implemented, sure, it will be amazing

joshisanonymous

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

This is great...

"I don't read or watch most of the stuff"

"Why is it missing all this stuff???"

LOL, Deary me.

Ya got me. I don't spend hours salivating at every piece of information I can find on the game. I don't make sure to fit every hour and half stream into my schedule.

But that also doesn't make my impression less valuable for the developers since the vast majority of potential players are also not salivating over every released detail at every moment. Believe it or not, but having a hook beyond "open world MMO" is important for drawing in people to play.

Nor did I ever say "why is it missing all this stuff????" I actually said:

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I don't really see what the core "story" or backbone that everything revolves around is

Which is a far cry from making a claim that anything is definitely missing. But on that point, there were several responses about how of course there are gaps in the story and theme because "this is alpha", which implies that I'm not the only one who hasn't picked up on what that core story of the world is.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

But hopefully you did read somewhere that the game is still in Alpha … ?

This was addressed already in this thread, but I appreciate the tongue in cheek response.

Solmyr wrote: »

From what we've seen so far, no. It's way too high fantasy for my tastes, to the point where it's difficult to relate with.

Everyone is immortal, everyone can use magic (judging from the skill showcases, even fighters are constantly casting spells), every other armor set is a ridiculously overdesigned masterpiece fit for a king, every other monster is a bioluminescent magical hybrid something-or-other, etc. etc.

Maybe it's just a side effect of their current marketing being all cosmetic-focused, but I hope the final product shows a little more restraint.

That could very well be what my issue is, as well. Everything I've seen is very glossy, and I'm very much a fan of worlds that have some rough edges.

WHIT3ROS3

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Ya got me. I don't spend hours salivating at every piece of information I can find on the game. I don't make sure to fit every hour and half stream into my schedule.

You don't need to spend hours. Just a 30-minute read-through of the wiki alone would answer many of the questions you have. If you aren't able to watch an hour-and-a-half stream each month, that's fine. Just don't expect to know everything about the setting so far. Which you don't. Also fine.

Not reading and watching the content and then STILL complaining you don't know stuff is... well it's kinda entitled and silly.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

That could very well be what my issue is, as well. Everything I've seen is very glossy, and I'm very much a fan of worlds that have some rough edges.

This I can agree with. I'm a big fan of ASOIAF, WARHAMMER and other fantasy settings that embrace the grimdark.

joshisanonymous

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

You don't need to spend hours. Just a 30-minute read-through of the wiki alone would answer many of the questions you have. If you aren't able to watch an hour-and-a-half stream each month, that's fine. Just don't expect to know everything about the setting so far. Which you don't. Also fine.

Not reading and watching the content and then STILL complaining you don't know stuff is... well it's kinda entitled and silly.

What is also silly is that you're clearly not reading what I'm writing because you're accusing me of saying things that I'm not saying.

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