Stealth/Sneaking Question

Couldn't find any information about this on Wiki other than Rogue class being able to use it? Will it be a thing?
In ESO, anyone or any class can go in stealth while in PvP/PvE areas to not get spotted by enemies (Once caught/engaged in a combat you can't go back into sneaking for X seconds)

To me, It adds immersion to be able to hide from an enemy, spy on enemies, hide from enemies trying to catch you, or to simply not get caught killing/stealing etc.

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CROW3

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Hopefully soon!

Right??

joshisanonymous

Sorry if it's been said already, but my 2 cents is that I'm fine with invisibility type stealth but not if it's persistent. I've accepted it for a long time in my favorite MMO, DAoC, even though it creates plenty of problems, but it's one of my least favorite things in ESO PvP is actually the proliferation of invisibility.

At least in DAoC, it's relegated to specific classes, but in ESO, you just never ever know where people are or how many people are around. Since every single player can do it effectively, you end up with large groups that could be standing right in front of you that are all stealthed. It makes engaging in fights annoying because no amount of awareness of your surroundings can prevent you from getting jumped on by people who happened to be right next to you the whole time. Beyond that, people use stealth to sit inside keeps forever after their faction has lost those keeps. Kill someone inside, go back into stealth, wait for people to give up looking for you, kill someone else inside, etc. That sort of thing is pretty annoying, IMO.

My preference would be for stealth to be limited classes having some short term invisibility and/or using the actual terrain for stealth. For this latter point, I think New World does it really well, actually. In New World, if you crouch or lay down in overgrowth, other players can't see you. This makes far more since than ESO's "crouching makes everyone invisible no matter the terrain" stuff, and it yields far more interesting gameplay.

TheDarkSorcerer

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Sorry if it's been said already, but my 2 cents is that I'm fine with invisibility type stealth but not if it's persistent. I've accepted it for a long time in my favorite MMO, DAoC, even though it creates plenty of problems, but it's one of my least favorite things in ESO PvP is actually the proliferation of invisibility.

At least in DAoC, it's relegated to specific classes, but in ESO, you just never ever know where people are or how many people are around. Since every single player can do it effectively, you end up with large groups that could be standing right in front of you that are all stealthed. It makes engaging in fights annoying because no amount of awareness of your surroundings can prevent you from getting jumped on by people who happened to be right next to you the whole time. Beyond that, people use stealth to sit inside keeps forever after their faction has lost those keeps. Kill someone inside, go back into stealth, wait for people to give up looking for you, kill someone else inside, etc. That sort of thing is pretty annoying, IMO.

My preference would be for stealth to be limited classes having some short term invisibility and/or using the actual terrain for stealth. For this latter point, I think New World does it really well, actually. In New World, if you crouch or lay down in overgrowth, other players can't see you. This makes far more since than ESO's "crouching makes everyone invisible no matter the terrain" stuff, and it yields far more interesting gameplay.

In my soon to be 9 years of ESO PvP I have never seen large groups/zerg balls stealthing up together.

Stealth is mainly an advantage for solo PvP'ers and Nightblades to either gank or to hide

Iskiab

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Sorry if it's been said already, but my 2 cents is that I'm fine with invisibility type stealth but not if it's persistent. I've accepted it for a long time in my favorite MMO, DAoC, even though it creates plenty of problems, but it's one of my least favorite things in ESO PvP is actually the proliferation of invisibility.

At least in DAoC, it's relegated to specific classes, but in ESO, you just never ever know where people are or how many people are around. Since every single player can do it effectively, you end up with large groups that could be standing right in front of you that are all stealthed. It makes engaging in fights annoying because no amount of awareness of your surroundings can prevent you from getting jumped on by people who happened to be right next to you the whole time. Beyond that, people use stealth to sit inside keeps forever after their faction has lost those keeps. Kill someone inside, go back into stealth, wait for people to give up looking for you, kill someone else inside, etc. That sort of thing is pretty annoying, IMO.

My preference would be for stealth to be limited classes having some short term invisibility and/or using the actual terrain for stealth. For this latter point, I think New World does it really well, actually. In New World, if you crouch or lay down in overgrowth, other players can't see you. This makes far more since than ESO's "crouching makes everyone invisible no matter the terrain" stuff, and it yields far more interesting gameplay.

In my soon to be 9 years of ESO PvP I have never seen large groups/zerg balls stealthing up together.

Stealth is mainly an advantage for solo PvP'ers and Nightblades to either gank or to hide

Nah, I did it a bunch of times for fun. Group of 20 in stealth and we jumped out at the same time attacking a group coming around the corner.

It was fun as heck, but they have a good point.

I don't know what the middle ground is. Maybe like Age of Conan where everyone can stealth, but moving while stealthed consumes resources? I don't know. It's a nice feature for everyone to have, you can hide while going to the washroom. Stealth itself is defensive, it's only offensive when you combine it with movement.

Atama

Hmm, nobody linked to the wiki?

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Stealth

You won't be completely invisible, there will be ways for players to "feel out" where a stealthed character is. Some abilities will reveal stealthed enemies, Rangers will get one.

If you take Rogue as a secondary class, you can incorporate augments into your abilities to grant you stealth.

Rangers get camouflage rather than stealth.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Camouflage

The difference is that when you get close to a Ranger, they are revealed. A Rogue stays concealed when close. That fits with the role of a Rogue sneaking up into melee, and a Ranger sniping from a distant hidden location.

I think a Ranger/Rogue (Scout) would make for a very interesting stealth-heavy ranged character.

Settite

Iskiab wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Sorry if it's been said already, but my 2 cents is that I'm fine with invisibility type stealth but not if it's persistent. I've accepted it for a long time in my favorite MMO, DAoC, even though it creates plenty of problems, but it's one of my least favorite things in ESO PvP is actually the proliferation of invisibility.

At least in DAoC, it's relegated to specific classes, but in ESO, you just never ever know where people are or how many people are around. Since every single player can do it effectively, you end up with large groups that could be standing right in front of you that are all stealthed. It makes engaging in fights annoying because no amount of awareness of your surroundings can prevent you from getting jumped on by people who happened to be right next to you the whole time. Beyond that, people use stealth to sit inside keeps forever after their faction has lost those keeps. Kill someone inside, go back into stealth, wait for people to give up looking for you, kill someone else inside, etc. That sort of thing is pretty annoying, IMO.

My preference would be for stealth to be limited classes having some short term invisibility and/or using the actual terrain for stealth. For this latter point, I think New World does it really well, actually. In New World, if you crouch or lay down in overgrowth, other players can't see you. This makes far more since than ESO's "crouching makes everyone invisible no matter the terrain" stuff, and it yields far more interesting gameplay.

In my soon to be 9 years of ESO PvP I have never seen large groups/zerg balls stealthing up together.

Stealth is mainly an advantage for solo PvP'ers and Nightblades to either gank or to hide

Nah, I did it a bunch of times for fun. Group of 20 in stealth and we jumped out at the same time attacking a group coming around the corner.

It was fun as heck, but they have a good point.

I don't know what the middle ground is. Maybe like Age of Conan where everyone can stealth, but moving while stealthed consumes resources? I don't know. It's a nice feature for everyone to have, you can hide while going to the washroom. Stealth itself is defensive, it's only offensive when you combine it with movement.

I believe that might be a bit of an irregularity then. In my time playing nightblade I never experienced that, nor did any of my guildmates. However if 20 nightblades are lying in wait then hey that's part of the game. I'd just let my campaigns zerg know and keep it pushing. On top of that I don't believe something like that would occur in ashes since you aren't incentivized to jump greens and if your a combatant then you've already agreed to pvp.

Rhorden

Can someone point me to a video, or a page, where Steven confirms that rogues will not bee 100% transparent? Not invisible, but transparent. Also anything to do with rogues having the predator look? I am looking currently but there's a lot to go through and I didn't see anything on the wiki page about "predator" look or shimmering, etc.

"Stealth is 100% an option in the game. It's not going to render yourself or the individual who uses the stealth completely obscured. You're still going to be able to identify- there's going to be utility skills that can reveal stealth from a PvP perspective. There's going to be perceptions that certain NPCs have that can see through stealth, like Tremor Sense or Life Sense. There are elements of mechanics that relate to stealth and how it is balanced in the game. It's not going to be similar to stealth that's been found in other games where the target is rendered completely invisible- they can make it past every enemy NPC or monster: they can use stealth at all times. These are elements that is a tit for tat. These are components of class-kits that are going to have corresponding counters as it relates to other classes as well.[4]" – Steven Sharif

"Stealth does not render a player completely invisible.[1]
There will be indicators that can help players "feel out" where stealthed individuals may be.[3]"

"True stealth resides within the realm of the Rogue (primary) archetype.[6]
There will be counter-stealth mechanics for sure. That's just a natural balancing act of stealth. But additionally with regards to you know secondary classes, one of those aspects is augments represent the secondary class and some of the- one of the most fundamental aspects of a rogue is stealth whether it be actual invisibility or the ability to sneak around in the shadows or something. So you can almost certainly count on the fact that should you go a secondary class of rogue that there will be the ability to influence your action items from your primary class with the stealth modifier.[7]" – Steven Sharif

Having a hard time finding everything about this class and looking at what was quoted in the wiki leads me to a different perspective based on his word choice and phrasing. This could be pointing to rogues actually having the ability to be 100% transparent.
If you are looking out a glass window to a static environment, say a city street, with no flexible objects, only cars, poles, solid buildings, concrete, etc, could you tell if the wind was blowing? If you add in trees, trash, dust and people, you would know the wind is blowing, but you can't see it.
I think this may be what he is getting at. A rogue passing to close to a tree could scuff it, walking through a bush would cause it to move, only footsteps where the rogue is currently standing would be visible, noise from any of that, or the sound of jumping off something and impacting the ground, would also be an indicator. The "completely obscure" comment would align with this and put everything else into a perspective that would make sense.

Iskiab

No idea, but with it being alpha I wouldn't put too much stock in anything being said. Alpha means anything can change, when there's a rogue reveal we will know more.

Rhorden

Iskiab wrote: »

No idea, but with it being alpha I wouldn't put too much stock in anything being said. Alpha means anything can change, when there's a rogue reveal we will know more.

I agree. I just like theory crafting and the mental dissection that goes with it. Quite often I get results different than most popular trends and have better results. But like you said, anything can change.

Happymeal2415

Rhorden wrote: »

Can someone point me to a video, or a page, where Steven confirms that rogues will not bee 100% transparent? Not invisible, but transparent. Also anything to do with rogues having the predator look?

I dont I have the time to find the exact one but the most recent mention I remember was an answer to a q and a section of one of thr monthly streams(I think in 2022). The predator thing I think is a super old proposed concept video that people keep referring to and thinking is set in stone. I might be wrong on that part

Strevi

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

I prefer only Rogues to have this skill.
Because I want to make alts and it feels better for me if there is a big difference between them.
The more more unique and special each class is, the better.

Well, i'm not asking for a skill though. You stealth when you crouch automatically in ESO. In ESO Nightblades are the Rogues and they have longer stealths than normal classes with a lot more advantages to get in and out of combat.

In my opinion, being able to be seen at all times is immersion breaking. You should be able to hide if needed using any class.

today's AMA stream gave us some insight into how things will be. invisibility, camouflage, hiding nameplate, pretending to be somebody else... Seems interesting.

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