Crafting Guilds/Factions in Cities updated

With professions requiring freeholds to preform the best types of processing, I think a system should be put in place for crafters since the best crafting is done in Node, I'd like to see Crafting Guilds/Factions [SEE UPDATE BELOW] in cities be able to form and take over a city similar to their only being one religious affinity in a given node. (perhaps Econ can have two major Crafting Guilds/Factions),

Essentially I think only guilds benches should be able to be progressed to max level. This should create conflict between crafters if the blacksmith guild runs your node, and you want to be a max leatherworker your guild needs to put in the work to take down the blacksmith guild or work to take over another node.

Belonging to the major guild could perhaps provide benefits such as reduced tax on their benches, but most significantly it provides the access to the best benches needed for max level crafting. I don't think every node should be able to have every bench siting at max level, as one node will essentially become "THE" crafting node. This will further work with the caravan system, because not every craft can be made everywhere you won't be able to go to one city with everything, either the goods or you will need to travel because the best leather armour is found in a riverlands node where the leather guild runs shop, and if you want the best metal armor well that's found in the node by the dunzenkell mountains, where the Armor smiths rule a nearby node.

Locking out the number of max lvl benches, while giving crafters the ability to control/vie for power in a separate system will give investment in their home/guild run node. Which will integrate and interface with the existing systems in game.

Let me know your thoughts and any fine tuning you think such an idea would require.

*UPDATE*
I understand there are player driven guilds, I'm using the term 'guild' in reference to historical Artisan Guilds, these would be separate social organizations to your player guild, similar to the Religious groups. how you can only join one religious group, you similarly can join/align with an artisan guild upon choosing the crafting artisan class

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worddog2

Guilds can form alliances that range in size from 400-1200 players.

I imagine a single metropolis node will essentially be owned by a small elite guild of 100 players, and they would control 3 other lesser guilds that contain roughly 300 other players each.

I imagine these lesser guilds would only contain the type of artisans and players that the higher end players need/want for the progression of their node.

The creation of a metropolis is such a massive endeavor I believe all high level crafting and processing will be accessible.

Taleof2Cities

Free enterprise means taking the best lumber miller, tanner, scribe, and herbalist in the node ... regardless of guild affiliation, @TheWolfofGar.

Though I'm not in favor of formalizing your idea into the game's rulesets, I'm sure guild monopolization will (no doubt) play out that way in a few nodes.

So, let it happen in-game organically.

Especially with the bigger emphasis on crafting in Ashes ... the fewer restrictions the better.

TheWolfofGar

worddog wrote: »

Guilds can form alliances that range in size from 400-1200 players.

I imagine a single metropolis node will essentially be owned by a small elite guild of 100 players, and they would control 3 other lesser guilds that contain roughly 300 other players each.

I imagine these lesser guilds would only contain the type of artisans and players that the higher end players need/want for the progression of their node.

I'm using the term "guild" as that is the term for those groups historically, I'm clearly not referencing the standard alliance player structure, Which is why I put "guild/faction" and specified similar affiliation to religious group. Ie. you as a crafter join a social organization of Blacksmiths, this organization operates in nodes and grants access to the best crafting benches.

worddog wrote: »

The creation of a metropolis is such a massive endeavor I believe all high level crafting and processing will be accessible.

I agree it will be a major endeavor and yes unlocking it should enable a lot of high level crafting, but I do not think a metropolis should have everything at max. having a crafting based social org would help give each a distinct flavour

TheWolfofGar

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Free enterprise means taking the best lumber miller, tanner, scribe, and herbalist in the node ... regardless of guild affiliation, @TheWolfofGar.

Though I'm not in favor of formalizing your idea into the game's rulesets, I'm sure guild monopolization will (no doubt) play out that way in a few nodes.

So, let it happen in-game organically.

I'm talking about adding a type of social org, of "crafting guilds" not your PVX guild you run dungeons with. Artisan guilds are a distinct historical entity that would fit the setting of ashes.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Especially with the bigger emphasis on crafting in Ashes ... the fewer restrictions the better.

I disagree the emphasis on crafting means there should be more restrictions as it's the best gear it needs to be an appropriate level of work to get or people would be able to just churn out BIS gear and the price of it would drop due to Supply outpacing demand

Taleof2Cities

TheWolfofGar wrote: »

I disagree the emphasis on crafting means there should be more restrictions as it's the best gear it needs to be an appropriate level of work to get or people would be able to just churn out BIS gear and the price of it would drop due to Supply outpacing demand

The level of work is already defined by your character's skillset ... you can only master up to 2-3 professions within one (1) artisan class. No one will be able to churn out BIS gear on one Ashes account.

There's no need to tack on an additional guild membership requirement.

TheWolfofGar

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The level of work is already defined by your character's skillset ... you can only master up to 2-3 professions within one (1) artisan class. No one will be able to churn out BIS gear on one Ashes account.

There's no need to tack on an additional guild membership requirement.

I'm aware of the current restrictions, my initial post was in reference to Processors are required to use freeholds in order to process at the highest level, there is a system they must engage with the process at max. All crafters need to do currently is travel to a node with the max level station. I think a social organization for artisans to engage with would be better as I do not think a metropolis should be able to have every station at max. This system would allow crafters to group together to champion their craft and get rewarded by their station being the best.

You are welcome to disagree I still think the idea would provide a better overall gameplay experience.

Ludullu

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Citizenship#Citizenship_benefits

Access to upper-tier crafting benches.[12]

How would your suggestion be any different from crafters just being a citizen of a node that has those upper-tier benches?

And I don't think we've had any indication that a node (even metro) will have literally every kind of highest-tier crafting bench there is.

In other words, your suggestion just seems like additional busywork for the crafters w/o really adding anything to the current systems. Also, the mayor is the one who decides what to build in his city, so your suggested artisan guilds would have to just bribe the mayor in some way, but that kind of thing can already be done even w/o in-game systems to support that.

CROW3

Well, if we’re introducing protectionist crafter unions, we need to add some union-busting assassination & espionage options.

I’m not a fan of adding bureaucracy unless there’s also a way to tear it down.

TheWolfofGar

NiKr wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Citizenship#Citizenship_benefits

Access to upper-tier crafting benches.[12]

How would your suggestion be any different from crafters just being a citizen of a node that has those upper-tier benches?

So with this I think the systems could actually work alongside one another, with respect to the citizen benches imagine their are "Citizen benches" and a "Guild Benches" you have access to all benches as a Citizen of your given node, but you have access to a Guild Bench in any node your Guild is charge of. Given the limitation on the number of Guild benches assuming sufficient difficulty in attaining and maintaining control having guild benches 1 tier above citizen nodes, allows for limited access to better consumables through node dev. and allows for nodes that wont ever progress beyond 3-5 a single form of crafting that can be better than the rest. while determined encourages you as a crafter to increase the power of your guild overall as with it comes the freedom to craft high level in nodes you may not be a citizen to.

The Wiki
Crafting stations (also referred to as Crafting benches or Workbenches) are located on freeholds or within nodes.[5][6]

Crafting stations relate to specific nodes, areas, or buildings.[5]
Different tiers of crafting stations represent the quality of the items that can be crafted.[5]
Higher tier crafting stations are unlocked with node progression.[7]
Legendary crafting benches are present in the Academy unique building of Metropolis (stage 6) Scientific nodes.[19]
Upper-tier crafting benches within a node are accessible by its citizens.[20]

given higher tier stations are unlocked with node progression once your node can progress no further being able to access a single tier 4 bench in a tier 3 node could have an interesting effect on the economy and if you are a citizen of the t3 node gives you more incentive to gain control with your guild so you have access to the t4 bench if you are not wanting to move.

NiKr wrote: »

And I don't think we've had any indication that a node (even metro) will have literally every kind of highest-tier crafting bench there is.

In other words, your suggestion just seems like additional busywork for the crafters w/o really adding anything to the current systems. Also, the mayor is the one who decides what to build in his city, so your suggested artisan guilds would have to just bribe the mayor in some way, but that kind of thing can already be done even w/o in-game systems to support that.

I do not see anything indicating that the citizen benches don't simply level with the node or if they are a mayoral project, if they don't simply level with the node and the mayor needs to select your bench to work on, having a guild bench where you as crafters can put in the work to progress your bench without needing to rely upon the mayor to select you would be beneficial as you could attain the higher tier bench sooner than your competition and if we keep the 1 tier above citizen bench idea there is a lot of value and reason to compete for the bench. If they do simply level with the node, then personally I would and do agree that is bad as I think there needs to be more competition between the crafters as for processors you need to invest to get your freehold developed enough to process at the highest level, all crafters need is to live in a node that has the bench. I think from a game play standpoint, progressing/investing into a social org/Craft guild could act in the same way. Plus from a social org standpoint there could be quests that have the chance to reveal recipes or other rewards that make progressing your craft guild a beneficial process and not simply busy work. Even things like titles such as Novice - Apprentice - Journeyman - Master etc. as something to work towards within the crafting guild framework.

Ludullu

TheWolfofGar wrote: »

having a guild bench where you as crafters can put in the work to progress your bench without needing to rely upon the mayor to select you would be beneficial as you could attain the higher tier bench sooner than your competition and if we keep the 1 tier above citizen bench idea there is a lot of value and reason to compete for the bench.

The guild would have to have a building to house the bench so I'd assume that mayor would be able to control which organization's buildings are in the node.

But if every node has representation of every social org, I guess I could see how some form of competition between them could work out. Though that would theoretically put nodemates against each other which imo goes a bit against the "neighborly" relationships that nodemates should have, but we'd have to see how it works out on practice.

Either way, if Intrepid doesn't currently plan on having social org competition within nodes, I could see this mechanic as a good expansion content.

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