Azherae wrote: » I still don't understand why this item type is necessary. It's just bloat. In a game that by its nature must already have some of the most robust and complex itemization out there. If it's just to give people money while they level, just give them the money outright, at that point. If it isn't going to flag them, it can't be lost, it's entire purpose is to sell to NPC for Currency... just give them the currency for the kill and be done with it.
GullibleSkeptic wrote: » Azherae wrote: » I still don't understand why this item type is necessary. It's just bloat. In a game that by its nature must already have some of the most robust and complex itemization out there. If it's just to give people money while they level, just give them the money outright, at that point. If it isn't going to flag them, it can't be lost, it's entire purpose is to sell to NPC for Currency... just give them the currency for the kill and be done with it. I believe they put it in to get people to use the caravan system or even just to.make it more realistic. Steven doesn't like wolves dropping gold. And since he is the one making the game we kinda gotta just put up with it. Doubt he will change his mind on this.
GullibleSkeptic wrote: » I believe they put it in to get people to use the caravan system or even just to.make it more realistic. Steven doesn't like wolves dropping gold. And since he is the one making the game we kinda gotta just put up with it. Doubt he will change his mind on this.
Azherae wrote: » I'm moreso arguing the other part. If Wolves must drop SOMETHING, then that something should have some use or meaning, not just 'hey this NPC will buy this because they're an idiot and will literally pay you silver for stuff they will never use'. Which means that it is Caravan/'Soft Flag' material. Literally.
NiKr wrote: » GullibleSkeptic wrote: » I believe they put it in to get people to use the caravan system or even just to.make it more realistic. Steven doesn't like wolves dropping gold. And since he is the one making the game we kinda gotta just put up with it. Doubt he will change his mind on this. I think Azherae is asking about the OP's incessant love for trash items, while Ashes won't have those. Though I'd assume that love comes mainly from the fact that the suggestion barely works w/o such trash items
novercalis wrote: » Its not really hard to add trash items to a loot table for the purpose of making it work. Because wolves wont drop gold coin, they will drop fur (flaggable) and a broken tooth (100% junk item) that little jimmy will buy for 1s each, regardless if it was a winter wolf, a summer wolf,. a wolf from africa, a wolf from russia. Its not a major overhaul to add basic junk items. That is probably the most simplest thing they can do
novercalis wrote: » you got the concept wrong. First of all, why are you love tapping for? Resources I assume, not just mindlessly killing someone for the funsies. If it's for the potential resource he/she is carrying let's continue on. Regardless of my idea being added - INTENTION was there, you planned to kill someone for their resources. Instead of suggesting a TOGGLE pvp bullshit - I am suggesting, carrying specific items, mats, resources toggles you into PVP. So now, you can leave the PVE player alone who has nothing to loot.
Oh wow, then your idea is even worse than what I originally understood: Let's say that carrying "rare resources" or better (just an example) toggles your for PvP. That means a green player will only be flagged/toggled to be attacked by another player if they're carrying rare resources. Now I don't even need to give love taps (remove my weapon, punch players and deal 13 damage) to check if they are flagged or not, I can just click on them and check if they have a "rare resources indicator" in their nameplate. Your intention is good, now people who have nothing valuable are safe from being attacked. Sadly, something very common in good intentions, is the collateral damage: the risk of getting corruption for killing green players carrying nothing valuable is removed and now green players who are carrying valuable loot became beacons of death. As a fragile PvEer, I'm now safe from any player threats unless I loot some rare resources, oopsie. As an evil PKer, I'm now safe from accidentally killing green players and getting no good loot, thankfully I can only attack green players who the game tells me are carrying something good, regardless of player levels. TL;DR: flagging or toggling PvP based on inventory value/rarity/weight is a bad idea, based on gear score bracket is a bad idea, based on level bracket is a bad idea, based on basically anything might sound like a good idea, but it'll have collateral effects (i.e. be abuseable and/or have the opposite effect) that do more harm than good to the game. The current system is better in theory, and probably in practice too. Cheers
novercalis wrote: » Oh wow, then your idea is even worse than what I originally understood: Let's say that carrying "rare resources" or better (just an example) toggles your for PvP. That means a green player will only be flagged/toggled to be attacked by another player if they're carrying rare resources. Now I don't even need to give love taps (remove my weapon, punch players and deal 13 damage) to check if they are flagged or not, I can just click on them and check if they have a "rare resources indicator" in their nameplate. Your intention is good, now people who have nothing valuable are safe from being attacked. Sadly, something very common in good intentions, is the collateral damage: the risk of getting corruption for killing green players carrying nothing valuable is removed and now green players who are carrying valuable loot became beacons of death. As a fragile PvEer, I'm now safe from any player threats unless I loot some rare resources, oopsie. As an evil PKer, I'm now safe from accidentally killing green players and getting no good loot, thankfully I can only attack green players who the game tells me are carrying something good, regardless of player levels. TL;DR: flagging or toggling PvP based on inventory value/rarity/weight is a bad idea, based on gear score bracket is a bad idea, based on level bracket is a bad idea, based on basically anything might sound like a good idea, but it'll have collateral effects (i.e. be abuseable and/or have the opposite effect) that do more harm than good to the game. The current system is better in theory, and probably in practice too. Cheers You can still hard flag yourself to kill a player who isnt soft flag. Most players will be soft flag anyways as they arent gonna let their loot rot away. So this returns us to the normal state of AoC pvp system. The question is - were you intended on pvping a player to begin with, had you known or not known if they had something? So, this beacon you speak of isnt really there. Unless you were intending to kill ppl on sight, or seeking out players who might have loot for you to take. Before or after this idea - you do not know what they have. You need to kill if u want that resources and you were gonna do it anyways - atleast here, we saved (hopefully) both you and the innocent pve who didnt soft flag. Sure, you can now punch the soft flag guy up - does he fight back or allows you to kill him, and do you decide to kill or just punch and walk away... thats on ya. I am all for hearing unintentional consequences that comes from this idea & to seek a resolution. Never stated this was perfect and fleshed out. but what you're stating isnt a unintended thing. If so and I am misunderstanding it - please clarify it better, afiak That was always there to begin with.
GullibleSkeptic wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Oh wow, then your idea is even worse than what I originally understood: Let's say that carrying "rare resources" or better (just an example) toggles your for PvP. That means a green player will only be flagged/toggled to be attacked by another player if they're carrying rare resources. Now I don't even need to give love taps (remove my weapon, punch players and deal 13 damage) to check if they are flagged or not, I can just click on them and check if they have a "rare resources indicator" in their nameplate. Your intention is good, now people who have nothing valuable are safe from being attacked. Sadly, something very common in good intentions, is the collateral damage: the risk of getting corruption for killing green players carrying nothing valuable is removed and now green players who are carrying valuable loot became beacons of death. As a fragile PvEer, I'm now safe from any player threats unless I loot some rare resources, oopsie. As an evil PKer, I'm now safe from accidentally killing green players and getting no good loot, thankfully I can only attack green players who the game tells me are carrying something good, regardless of player levels. TL;DR: flagging or toggling PvP based on inventory value/rarity/weight is a bad idea, based on gear score bracket is a bad idea, based on level bracket is a bad idea, based on basically anything might sound like a good idea, but it'll have collateral effects (i.e. be abuseable and/or have the opposite effect) that do more harm than good to the game. The current system is better in theory, and probably in practice too. Cheers You can still hard flag yourself to kill a player who isnt soft flag. Most players will be soft flag anyways as they arent gonna let their loot rot away. So this returns us to the normal state of AoC pvp system. The question is - were you intended on pvping a player to begin with, had you known or not known if they had something? So, this beacon you speak of isnt really there. Unless you were intending to kill ppl on sight, or seeking out players who might have loot for you to take. Before or after this idea - you do not know what they have. You need to kill if u want that resources and you were gonna do it anyways - atleast here, we saved (hopefully) both you and the innocent pve who didnt soft flag. Sure, you can now punch the soft flag guy up - does he fight back or allows you to kill him, and do you decide to kill or just punch and walk away... thats on ya. I am all for hearing unintentional consequences that comes from this idea & to seek a resolution. Never stated this was perfect and fleshed out. but what you're stating isnt a unintended thing. If so and I am misunderstanding it - please clarify it better, afiak That was always there to begin with. I don't understand what purpose your system has. If people can still hard flag to kill random people questing what protection are you giving them? If the jerk wants to kill you he doesn't care if he has to hard flag or not.
George_Black wrote: » Why would we asse that a lv60 PK a lv1? What are the reasons that a lv60 will do that? Without any reasons you are just proposing developing changes based on nothing. Why would a lv60 PK a lv1, lv5, lv10, lv20, lv35? What for? Why would he risk his gear?
novercalis wrote: » GullibleSkeptic wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Oh wow, then your idea is even worse than what I originally understood: Let's say that carrying "rare resources" or better (just an example) toggles your for PvP. That means a green player will only be flagged/toggled to be attacked by another player if they're carrying rare resources. Now I don't even need to give love taps (remove my weapon, punch players and deal 13 damage) to check if they are flagged or not, I can just click on them and check if they have a "rare resources indicator" in their nameplate. Your intention is good, now people who have nothing valuable are safe from being attacked. Sadly, something very common in good intentions, is the collateral damage: the risk of getting corruption for killing green players carrying nothing valuable is removed and now green players who are carrying valuable loot became beacons of death. As a fragile PvEer, I'm now safe from any player threats unless I loot some rare resources, oopsie. As an evil PKer, I'm now safe from accidentally killing green players and getting no good loot, thankfully I can only attack green players who the game tells me are carrying something good, regardless of player levels. TL;DR: flagging or toggling PvP based on inventory value/rarity/weight is a bad idea, based on gear score bracket is a bad idea, based on level bracket is a bad idea, based on basically anything might sound like a good idea, but it'll have collateral effects (i.e. be abuseable and/or have the opposite effect) that do more harm than good to the game. The current system is better in theory, and probably in practice too. Cheers You can still hard flag yourself to kill a player who isnt soft flag. Most players will be soft flag anyways as they arent gonna let their loot rot away. So this returns us to the normal state of AoC pvp system. The question is - were you intended on pvping a player to begin with, had you known or not known if they had something? So, this beacon you speak of isnt really there. Unless you were intending to kill ppl on sight, or seeking out players who might have loot for you to take. Before or after this idea - you do not know what they have. You need to kill if u want that resources and you were gonna do it anyways - atleast here, we saved (hopefully) both you and the innocent pve who didnt soft flag. Sure, you can now punch the soft flag guy up - does he fight back or allows you to kill him, and do you decide to kill or just punch and walk away... thats on ya. I am all for hearing unintentional consequences that comes from this idea & to seek a resolution. Never stated this was perfect and fleshed out. but what you're stating isnt a unintended thing. If so and I am misunderstanding it - please clarify it better, afiak That was always there to begin with. I don't understand what purpose your system has. If people can still hard flag to kill random people questing what protection are you giving them? If the jerk wants to kill you he doesn't care if he has to hard flag or not. Lets assume - current corruption system a lvl 60 killing a lvl 1 Corruption point is the maximum 100 corruption points. Serious Dampen of stats and all that jazz. With Hard Flag - you intentionally knew, this person doesnt have NOTHING and still choose to kill this person. He doesnt fight back and gives you corruption. Now it's double. Reinforces the purpose of corruption system - to discourage non-meaningful pvp conflicts. To Depraved - you seems dead set to consistently accuse me of that out of the blue with no reasoning. I've stated and told you that doesnt matter. If I was hunting gatherers on my max level toon, and accepted today I am gonna get corrupted - it wouldnt have change any outcome. I was logging in that day with the intention to kill players for resources. I'd rather avoid killing someone who aint got shit and leave them be. But I still wouldnt know who has what, who isnt soft flag, I still had to initiate combat. Now, I found someone soft flag by initiating, realize he/she isnt fight back, I am purple still and BH can spot me now - Do I continue and slay you or give up, cause you didnt fight back n hide. I am still putting myself at other risks. I can't find out if you are soft flag until I become purple. So it's not like im gonna be running by every single person, punching them in the face to see if they are soft flag or not & hope they fight back, so I can attempt to avoid corruption. seriously - come up with some other excuse, cause all I am getting, with your username is - you're the type of player that wants to grief and be perma red with benefits or find / found a potential loophole that you don't want shut down. Can I prove it? ABSOLUTELY NOT - just like your accusation towards me - but I guess going forward - this is what I believe now in terms of you. There is a mute forum button - please use it on me unless you got meaningful dialog, explanation, why (in detail) this is good/bad and what you would suggest to finding a solution - or is it, u dont want a solution at all.
GullibleSkeptic wrote: » novercalis wrote: » GullibleSkeptic wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Oh wow, then your idea is even worse than what I originally understood: Let's say that carrying "rare resources" or better (just an example) toggles your for PvP. That means a green player will only be flagged/toggled to be attacked by another player if they're carrying rare resources. Now I don't even need to give love taps (remove my weapon, punch players and deal 13 damage) to check if they are flagged or not, I can just click on them and check if they have a "rare resources indicator" in their nameplate. Your intention is good, now people who have nothing valuable are safe from being attacked. Sadly, something very common in good intentions, is the collateral damage: the risk of getting corruption for killing green players carrying nothing valuable is removed and now green players who are carrying valuable loot became beacons of death. As a fragile PvEer, I'm now safe from any player threats unless I loot some rare resources, oopsie. As an evil PKer, I'm now safe from accidentally killing green players and getting no good loot, thankfully I can only attack green players who the game tells me are carrying something good, regardless of player levels. TL;DR: flagging or toggling PvP based on inventory value/rarity/weight is a bad idea, based on gear score bracket is a bad idea, based on level bracket is a bad idea, based on basically anything might sound like a good idea, but it'll have collateral effects (i.e. be abuseable and/or have the opposite effect) that do more harm than good to the game. The current system is better in theory, and probably in practice too. Cheers You can still hard flag yourself to kill a player who isnt soft flag. Most players will be soft flag anyways as they arent gonna let their loot rot away. So this returns us to the normal state of AoC pvp system. The question is - were you intended on pvping a player to begin with, had you known or not known if they had something? So, this beacon you speak of isnt really there. Unless you were intending to kill ppl on sight, or seeking out players who might have loot for you to take. Before or after this idea - you do not know what they have. You need to kill if u want that resources and you were gonna do it anyways - atleast here, we saved (hopefully) both you and the innocent pve who didnt soft flag. Sure, you can now punch the soft flag guy up - does he fight back or allows you to kill him, and do you decide to kill or just punch and walk away... thats on ya. I am all for hearing unintentional consequences that comes from this idea & to seek a resolution. Never stated this was perfect and fleshed out. but what you're stating isnt a unintended thing. If so and I am misunderstanding it - please clarify it better, afiak That was always there to begin with. I don't understand what purpose your system has. If people can still hard flag to kill random people questing what protection are you giving them? If the jerk wants to kill you he doesn't care if he has to hard flag or not. Lets assume - current corruption system a lvl 60 killing a lvl 1 Corruption point is the maximum 100 corruption points. Serious Dampen of stats and all that jazz. With Hard Flag - you intentionally knew, this person doesnt have NOTHING and still choose to kill this person. He doesnt fight back and gives you corruption. Now it's double. Reinforces the purpose of corruption system - to discourage non-meaningful pvp conflicts. To Depraved - you seems dead set to consistently accuse me of that out of the blue with no reasoning. I've stated and told you that doesnt matter. If I was hunting gatherers on my max level toon, and accepted today I am gonna get corrupted - it wouldnt have change any outcome. I was logging in that day with the intention to kill players for resources. I'd rather avoid killing someone who aint got shit and leave them be. But I still wouldnt know who has what, who isnt soft flag, I still had to initiate combat. Now, I found someone soft flag by initiating, realize he/she isnt fight back, I am purple still and BH can spot me now - Do I continue and slay you or give up, cause you didnt fight back n hide. I am still putting myself at other risks. I can't find out if you are soft flag until I become purple. So it's not like im gonna be running by every single person, punching them in the face to see if they are soft flag or not & hope they fight back, so I can attempt to avoid corruption. seriously - come up with some other excuse, cause all I am getting, with your username is - you're the type of player that wants to grief and be perma red with benefits or find / found a potential loophole that you don't want shut down. Can I prove it? ABSOLUTELY NOT - just like your accusation towards me - but I guess going forward - this is what I believe now in terms of you. There is a mute forum button - please use it on me unless you got meaningful dialog, explanation, why (in detail) this is good/bad and what you would suggest to finding a solution - or is it, u dont want a solution at all. If the corruption system is balanced correctly your system is completely uneeded. We don't know numbers but we do know that you get more corruption for killing lower levels. The system should make it so killing a lv 1 is never worth it irregardless of if they have rare mats or not. If the system is done right killing even a lvl 30 at 50 will be worth only 1/1000 situations. Your system actually does the opposite of what you want. Intrepid has stated that low level gatherables will still be useful in high level crafting. As such a system that tells me that low level players have rare gatherables makes me more inclined to kill them then a system that tells me nothing.
novercalis wrote: » GullibleSkeptic wrote: » novercalis wrote: » GullibleSkeptic wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Oh wow, then your idea is even worse than what I originally understood: Let's say that carrying "rare resources" or better (just an example) toggles your for PvP. That means a green player will only be flagged/toggled to be attacked by another player if they're carrying rare resources. Now I don't even need to give love taps (remove my weapon, punch players and deal 13 damage) to check if they are flagged or not, I can just click on them and check if they have a "rare resources indicator" in their nameplate. Your intention is good, now people who have nothing valuable are safe from being attacked. Sadly, something very common in good intentions, is the collateral damage: the risk of getting corruption for killing green players carrying nothing valuable is removed and now green players who are carrying valuable loot became beacons of death. As a fragile PvEer, I'm now safe from any player threats unless I loot some rare resources, oopsie. As an evil PKer, I'm now safe from accidentally killing green players and getting no good loot, thankfully I can only attack green players who the game tells me are carrying something good, regardless of player levels. TL;DR: flagging or toggling PvP based on inventory value/rarity/weight is a bad idea, based on gear score bracket is a bad idea, based on level bracket is a bad idea, based on basically anything might sound like a good idea, but it'll have collateral effects (i.e. be abuseable and/or have the opposite effect) that do more harm than good to the game. The current system is better in theory, and probably in practice too. Cheers You can still hard flag yourself to kill a player who isnt soft flag. Most players will be soft flag anyways as they arent gonna let their loot rot away. So this returns us to the normal state of AoC pvp system. The question is - were you intended on pvping a player to begin with, had you known or not known if they had something? So, this beacon you speak of isnt really there. Unless you were intending to kill ppl on sight, or seeking out players who might have loot for you to take. Before or after this idea - you do not know what they have. You need to kill if u want that resources and you were gonna do it anyways - atleast here, we saved (hopefully) both you and the innocent pve who didnt soft flag. Sure, you can now punch the soft flag guy up - does he fight back or allows you to kill him, and do you decide to kill or just punch and walk away... thats on ya. I am all for hearing unintentional consequences that comes from this idea & to seek a resolution. Never stated this was perfect and fleshed out. but what you're stating isnt a unintended thing. If so and I am misunderstanding it - please clarify it better, afiak That was always there to begin with. I don't understand what purpose your system has. If people can still hard flag to kill random people questing what protection are you giving them? If the jerk wants to kill you he doesn't care if he has to hard flag or not. Lets assume - current corruption system a lvl 60 killing a lvl 1 Corruption point is the maximum 100 corruption points. Serious Dampen of stats and all that jazz. With Hard Flag - you intentionally knew, this person doesnt have NOTHING and still choose to kill this person. He doesnt fight back and gives you corruption. Now it's double. Reinforces the purpose of corruption system - to discourage non-meaningful pvp conflicts. To Depraved - you seems dead set to consistently accuse me of that out of the blue with no reasoning. I've stated and told you that doesnt matter. If I was hunting gatherers on my max level toon, and accepted today I am gonna get corrupted - it wouldnt have change any outcome. I was logging in that day with the intention to kill players for resources. I'd rather avoid killing someone who aint got shit and leave them be. But I still wouldnt know who has what, who isnt soft flag, I still had to initiate combat. Now, I found someone soft flag by initiating, realize he/she isnt fight back, I am purple still and BH can spot me now - Do I continue and slay you or give up, cause you didnt fight back n hide. I am still putting myself at other risks. I can't find out if you are soft flag until I become purple. So it's not like im gonna be running by every single person, punching them in the face to see if they are soft flag or not & hope they fight back, so I can attempt to avoid corruption. seriously - come up with some other excuse, cause all I am getting, with your username is - you're the type of player that wants to grief and be perma red with benefits or find / found a potential loophole that you don't want shut down. Can I prove it? ABSOLUTELY NOT - just like your accusation towards me - but I guess going forward - this is what I believe now in terms of you. There is a mute forum button - please use it on me unless you got meaningful dialog, explanation, why (in detail) this is good/bad and what you would suggest to finding a solution - or is it, u dont want a solution at all. If the corruption system is balanced correctly your system is completely uneeded. We don't know numbers but we do know that you get more corruption for killing lower levels. The system should make it so killing a lv 1 is never worth it irregardless of if they have rare mats or not. If the system is done right killing even a lvl 30 at 50 will be worth only 1/1000 situations. Your system actually does the opposite of what you want. Intrepid has stated that low level gatherables will still be useful in high level crafting. As such a system that tells me that low level players have rare gatherables makes me more inclined to kill them then a system that tells me nothing. Currently - top guild gets lvl 1 alts to carry super rare mats from a raid dungeon back into town. Someone is gonna have to kill this lvl 1 alt who is transporting all the goods. This soft flag doesnt change the corruption point at all, but to say there is no gameplay to utilize lvl 1 to carry goods under the protection of corruption is also very viable.
