Is the goal truly PvX?

This is a general question on both how players interpret Intrepid Studio's vision, as well as what players actually desire.

I seem to see a general consensus that PvP is the main focus. But I'm wondering is PvE really even a big part of the game? Sure there are NPC mobs and bosses but their importance seems to be dwarfed by the ability to PvP around them. Most people seem to only want their PvE if it also has PvP.

Rust is a PvP game, just because PvE elements exist in Rust doesn't mean people call it a PvX game.

So is this game PvX? Or is it just a PvP game?

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Liniker

PvX does not mean 50% PvP and 50% PvE

PvX means that for the most part, there is no separated PvP and PvE content - so Yes, the game is PvX, and no, you wont get equal amount of PvP only and PvE only content

Ludullu

PvP requires PvE and scarcity of PvE leads to PvP. That kind of interconnectedness makes the game PvX.

worddog2

Liniker wrote: »

PvX does not mean 50% PvP and 50% PvE

PvX means that for the most part, there is no separated PvP and PvE content - so Yes, the game is PvX, and no, you wont get equal amount of PvP only and PvE only content

Doesn't that definition just make most PvP games PvX? Like is League of Legends a PvX game because there is a jungle with neutral NPC enemies?

Is Fortnite PvX because they have enemy NPCs?

When I say PvX I'm not asking does PvE content exist, I'm just asking about the focus of the game. Sure you can technically call Fortnite a PvX game but I'm asking in terms of reality, like what should people actually expect.

worddog2

NiKr wrote: »

PvP requires PvE and scarcity of PvE leads to PvP. That kind of interconnectedness makes the game PvX.

But let's say we have two players.

Player A: Only likes PvP

Player B: Only like PvE

What do you think each of those players would feel about the game?

Would the PvPer even have many complaints if basically everything in the game is surrounded by PvP?

Whereas the PvE player, well all of their PvE content is surrounded by PvP. And all the other content is just pure PvP.

So really it's only PvX for the PvE content, which seems to work out pretty good for the PvP players.

Liniker

worddog wrote: »

I'm just asking about the focus of the game. Sure you can technically call Fortnite a PvX game but I'm asking in terms of reality, like what should people actually expect.

Yes, Ashes is a PvP Centric game, you can call it PvP game if you want, but you can't call it PvE game.

However, the devs, and many in the community, including myself, will keep calling it PvX, because you can not play this game only by PvPing, and PvE is an intricate part of the game, you need to do PvE as well, so, PvX is appropriate.

Liniker

I know many PvP players that get disappointed when they find out that the best gear comes from doing Raids and Dungeons (matt drops) and crafting

They wanted to do PvP and farm points to buy a PvP set, like in other PvP games, but they can't, they need to do PvE.

So there you have it... that's the PvX part of it

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

What do you think each of those players would feel about the game?

I'd expect them to dislike the game.

Noaani

I think - after many years - I have potentially come across the disconnect many people have here.

When PvP players talk about PvE, they are talking about things like base population. In games like L2, where you would drag a whole pile of mobs in to one spot and AoE them down, many PvP players consider that PvE content.

PvE players do not consider that PvE content.

It is not even content - it is filler. Mobs like that are there to be run past in order to get to the content.

A boss that is in the open world that is dead easy if you have no other players contesting it, that isn't PvE content either. That is PvP content.

PvE content is specifically about bosses. If we are going to say that PvE content is important, we are saying that bosses are important. If we are going to say that a player can get by in Ashes by just AoE'ing down base population to level up and then PvP to get stuff, then as far as a PvE player is concerned, that player has not participated in PvE at all.

To me, Ashes is a PvX game ONLY from the perspective of a PvP player.

From the perspective of a PvE player, Ashes is a PvP game.

Okeydoke

worddog wrote: »

But I'm wondering is PvE really even a big part of the game?

There's gonna be pve. We just haven't really seen much of it yet. We saw some things in Alpha 1.

We know there's going to be dungeons, bosses, world bosses, regular mobs, some kind of event system like goblins spawning and attacking an area, AI ships, quests, fishing, treasure hunting.

Not sure if things like the artisan system are considered pve, crafting/gathering/farming and processing on your freehold.

The only major pvp feature that I can think of that we saw in Alpha 1 are castle sieges. We saw some boss fights. Both those features looked alright, kinda rudimentary...Alpha 1'ish, but alright.

CROW3

For me, PvX is a 2004 WoW PvP server. Dungeons, raids, and questing are all content. The world was pvp content. The constant player driven war between Tarren Mill and Southshore was PvP content. Taking over Grom’Gol and holding it from the tower was pvp content. Then we’d raid BWL.

I don’t see the PvP and PvE division as wide as others, but I think it’s because I’ve seen pvx as the desired state for a long time. Fighting other players on my way to a dungeon is just expected (and desired) doesn’t mean I don’t want the dungeon content, but just walking to the dungeon is boring to me.

bloodprophet

Nope.

It is all just a lie. The cake is a lie.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

PvE content is specifically about bosses. If we are going to say that PvE content is important, we are saying that bosses are important. If we are going to say that a player can get by in Ashes by just AoE'ing down base population to level up and then PvP to get stuff, then as far as a PvE player is concerned, that player has not participated in PvE at all.

I think the mirror of that elitist approach for PvP is equalized/ladder arena pvp vs owpvp. Ashes allegedly will have both hardcore bosses and arena fights (and allegedly even avatar-based "fair" pvp).

In other words, there's both filler pvx and elitist pvx. Which imo makes the game PvX. Well, that is if they can deliver on their promises.

worddog2

Okeydoke wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

But I'm wondering is PvE really even a big part of the game?

There's gonna be pve. We just haven't really seen much of it yet. We saw some things in Alpha 1.

We know there's going to be dungeons, bosses, world bosses, regular mobs, some kind of event system like goblins spawning and attacking an area, AI ships, quests, fishing, treasure hunting.

Not sure if things like the artisan system are considered pve, crafting/gathering/farming and processing on your freehold.

The only major pvp feature that I can think of that we saw in Alpha 1 are castle sieges. We saw some boss fights. Both those features looked alright, kinda rudimentary...Alpha 1'ish, but alright.

That's what I'm hoping, I'm a PvP player but strictly for Arenas. I like the rest of the game to have at least some areas to relax in, not just a permanent battleground.

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

That's what I'm hoping, I'm a PvP player but strictly for Arenas. I like the rest of the game to have at least some areas to relax in, not just a permanent battleground.

@Noaani and this is what I'm talking about. There's pvpers, pvers and pvxers. It just so happens that pvx games so far hasn't had a good enough representation of pve, but Ashes has a chance to fix that.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

I think - after many years - I have potentially come across the disconnect many people have here.

When PvP players talk about PvE, they are talking about things like base population. In games like L2, where you would drag a whole pile of mobs in to one spot and AoE them down, many PvP players consider that PvE content.

PvE players do not consider that PvE content.

It is not even content - it is filler. Mobs like that are there to be run past in order to get to the content.

A boss that is in the open world that is dead easy if you have no other players contesting it, that isn't PvE content either. That is PvP content.

PvE content is specifically about bosses. If we are going to say that PvE content is important, we are saying that bosses are important. If we are going to say that a player can get by in Ashes by just AoE'ing down base population to level up and then PvP to get stuff, then as far as a PvE player is concerned, that player has not participated in PvE at all.

To me, Ashes is a PvX game ONLY from the perspective of a PvP player.

From the perspective of a PvE player, Ashes is a PvP game.

Not really if i hear PvX that means challenging content and bosses as well as pvp. PvE is just dungeons and bosses, PvP mmo is liek BDO trash pve content and you mainly just pvp people (granted you are stuck doingt he pve 95% of the tiem because oft he game). Shadowbane was 100% a pvp game, had trash mobs that are brain dead and main content is fighting people.

So when i hear PvX i hear you have both not just one or filler pve content. Other pvp people would also agree with me on that...

Okeydoke

worddog wrote: »

That's what I'm hoping, I'm a PvP player but strictly for Arenas. I like the rest of the game to have at least some areas to relax in, not just a permanent battleground.

How relaxing it will be will depend entirely on how contested the content you're doing is. That'll range from virtually uncontested to extremely contested. We don't know what the breakdown of that will be, or in other words, how contested the overall content picture will look.

We have a dev quote of approximately 20% of "dungeon encounters" will be instanced. I believe we've been told these instances won't be repeatable or farmable or something, not 100% sure.

But it is a mostly open world game with open world pvp. How relaxing certain things will be is dependent on all kinds of things we don't know right now.

Ludullu

Okeydoke wrote: »

We have a dev quote of approximately 20% of "dungeon encounters" will be instanced. I believe we've been told these instances won't be repeatable or farmable or something, not 100% sure

Yeah, the instanced stuff is supposed to be "not grindable" and with sub-BiS rewards (if even high tier). But due to us not hearing anything about the hardcorer side of the game's pve we've got no clue if there's been any change on that front. Which is exactly why I made the thread asking for that info.

worddog2

Okeydoke wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

That's what I'm hoping, I'm a PvP player but strictly for Arenas. I like the rest of the game to have at least some areas to relax in, not just a permanent battleground.

How relaxing it will be will depend entirely on how contested the content you're doing is. That'll range from virtually uncontested to extremely contested. We don't know what the breakdown of that will be, or in other words, how contested the overall content picture will look.

We have a dev quote of approximately 20% of "dungeon encounters" will be instanced. I believe we've been told these instances won't be repeatable or farmable or something, not 100% sure.

But it is a mostly open world game with open world pvp. How relaxing certain things will be is dependent on all kinds of things we don't know right now.

I'd like to be able to do at least some PvE content without it turning into a PvP battle. That's my main thing. If all PvE progression is basically just a PvP arena with monsters I'd get tired.

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

I'd like to be able to do at least some PvE content without it turning into a PvP battle. That's my main thing. If all PvE progression is basically just a PvP arena with monsters I'd get tired.

So the game might not be for you! Ayo!!

Taleof2Cities

worddog wrote: »

Okeydoke wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

That's what I'm hoping, I'm a PvP player but strictly for Arenas. I like the rest of the game to have at least some areas to relax in, not just a permanent battleground.

How relaxing it will be will depend entirely on how contested the content you're doing is. That'll range from virtually uncontested to extremely contested. We don't know what the breakdown of that will be, or in other words, how contested the overall content picture will look.

We have a dev quote of approximately 20% of "dungeon encounters" will be instanced. I believe we've been told these instances won't be repeatable or farmable or something, not 100% sure.

But it is a mostly open world game with open world pvp. How relaxing certain things will be is dependent on all kinds of things we don't know right now.

I'd like to be able to do at least some PvE content without it turning into a PvP battle. That's my main thing. If all PvE progression is basically just a PvP arena with monsters I'd get tired.

You will, @worddog ... example mentioned in the two posts right above yours.

I wouldn't get too comfortable on ideas of open world PvE. There will always be some risk of PvP (even if the risk is remote) in overland content.

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