Okeydoke wrote: » *years. Months for most other modern mmos, if not days. If even at all.
worddog wrote: » Okeydoke wrote: » *years. Months for most other modern mmos, if not days. If even at all. Is that in response to my comment? I just meant like you have to pay a monthly subscription, so when people don't want to pay anymore they quit.
Strevi wrote: » . worddog wrote: » Okeydoke wrote: » *years. Months for most other modern mmos, if not days. If even at all. Is that in response to my comment? I just meant like you have to pay a monthly subscription, so when people don't want to pay anymore they quit. nice
worddog wrote: » Strevi wrote: » . worddog wrote: » Okeydoke wrote: » *years. Months for most other modern mmos, if not days. If even at all. Is that in response to my comment? I just meant like you have to pay a monthly subscription, so when people don't want to pay anymore they quit. nice I'm confused
... and then if the game is good then people will continue to subscribe and that subscription provides funding and revenue for the developers to continue a significant content creation and expansion rollout for the game.[10] – Steven Sharif
worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Obviously this is all some assumptions, but we don't have anything better to go on at this stage. And if those assumption will prove to be real, then I'll completely understand why Dygz wouldn't want to play the game. I mean we'll all play the game. It's just a matter of how many months.
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Obviously this is all some assumptions, but we don't have anything better to go on at this stage. And if those assumption will prove to be real, then I'll completely understand why Dygz wouldn't want to play the game.
Noaani wrote: » Obviously this is all some assumptions, but we don't have anything better to go on at this stage.
NiKr wrote: » But until they tell us what's in those seas, outside of the "ohhh, there's, like, so much cool stuff there and it's, like, so valuable that you just HAVE to pvp for it", I can't say if I fully agree with your dislike for it. I understand why you dislike it, but if all the explorable content is locked behind hardcore pve (that's supposedly the stuff that you gotta pvp for) - I'd assume you wouldn't be able to explore that stuff either way, at which point there'd be nothing for you in the open seas.
NiKr wrote: » if that was the case, would you still be against playing the game? Well, in the context of other non-pvp traversal across the seas and obviously the coastline being corruption-based.
Depraved wrote: » you are 100% correct. however, it doesnt matter if its bob or joe playing the game. if bob the pve guy doesnt wanna play, theres a slot for joe the pvp guy. this game is made for people who enjoy both. a cooperative-competitive game where you can do pvp and pve
NiKr wrote: » BiS mats and drops themselves will only come from open world bosses, so, yes, you'll have to pvp for them against anyone else trying to get them.
Dygz wrote: » NiKr wrote: » if that was the case, would you still be against playing the game? Well, in the context of other non-pvp traversal across the seas and obviously the coastline being corruption-based. If the Open Seas included Corruption, I would have to test to see if Corruption is a sufficient deterrent for PvP - just as have to test that on land. Could be that Corruption would not be a sufficient deterrent and I would still consider Ashes to be too PvP-centric for me to play. Which is why I'm not advocating to change the current design for the Open Seas. Open Seas with Corruption does not guarantee I would play. It's just that Open Seas without Corruption inherently means Ashes is too PvP-centric for me. I don't have to test to determine that is a feature for a PvP-centric game. All content locked behind hardcore PvE is not really a thing and would not deter me from exploring.
Dygz wrote: » You don't have to PvP to obtain BiS mats and drops. Someone probably does. But... that's what friends and neighbors and guild banks and bartering and selling are for.
Dygz wrote: » I dunno what you mean by "right". Just because someone obtained the mats via combat doesn't mean that same person can Craft the desired BiS gear. Similarly, the person who can Craft BiS gear may not be able to obtain BiS gear.
Dygz wrote: » And all of that assumes that the only reason to adventure in an area that has BiS mats and drops is to obtain those BiS mats and drops.
NiKr wrote: » Someone has to get the mats to do the craft. If the mob/boss/quest is super difficult then only the people who have the skill to overcome that difficulty will get the mats. And when we're talking about open world dungeons, there's also pvp being added to that equation, so the people with the skills to beat the pve content will have to go through pvp content as well. Be that by just pvping themselves or by paying mercs or just having guildies who do the pvp for them.
NiKr wrote: » The ones who did all of that and got the mats had "the right" (or, well, earned it rather) to get them, because they've overcome hardships to achieve their goal. Yes, they'll still have to utilize help of crafters (most likely from their guild) and gatherers and processers (probably also from their guild), but w/o mats you wouldn't be able to do the craft in the first place. Dygz wrote: » And all of that assumes that the only reason to adventure in an area that has BiS mats and drops is to obtain those BiS mats and drops. Well, we were talking about methods of BiS gear acquisition and not adventuring, which is why I didn't mention other reasons to be in a dungeon, let along around a world boss.
Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP.
Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP. Okay technically there would be millions of encounters if you took 64 classes + augments to the probably hundreds of bosses and dozens of legendary raids, but you are absolutely wrong, no matter how many PVP encounters you have, they will never be the same, ~40ish abilities for 8 classes, add in augments, make it 8v8 what AOC is balancing the game around (therefore expecting the standard encounter to be) and you already have a greater number of potential variations, more importantly, a boss or raid, is only code, it will never truly change, it might randomize ability sets, scale based on dps or other things, but it will not change. You wanna 8vX me? You will never have the same fight twice, purely because humans can LEARN, PVE does not have the ability to match human interactions sure PVE difficulty can scale based on code, but it doesn't fluctuate when players have an off day or a good day, nor does it adapt during the middle of the fight based off the enemy, sure a boss can change if you cast a certain ability, but the boss won't strafe a different way based on skill shots cast. Stop saying PVE has more variety, its just short sighted. Wanna know why it takes a superconductor days to map a way to win in strategy games vs humans, because it has to map billions of strategies, and those test have been done with games that have 5-10 mechanics, imagine a game like AOC with hundreds of mechanics, it would take months to map out enough possibilities to match a human. Games with limited interactions (chess) cannot apply here as there is a finite number of possibilities, unlike a player to player interaction. It is why mobas have millions of players running 1000's of hours on them on the same map day in day out.
worddog wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP. Okay technically there would be millions of encounters if you took 64 classes + augments to the probably hundreds of bosses and dozens of legendary raids, but you are absolutely wrong, no matter how many PVP encounters you have, they will never be the same, ~40ish abilities for 8 classes, add in augments, make it 8v8 what AOC is balancing the game around (therefore expecting the standard encounter to be) and you already have a greater number of potential variations, more importantly, a boss or raid, is only code, it will never truly change, it might randomize ability sets, scale based on dps or other things, but it will not change. You wanna 8vX me? You will never have the same fight twice, purely because humans can LEARN, PVE does not have the ability to match human interactions sure PVE difficulty can scale based on code, but it doesn't fluctuate when players have an off day or a good day, nor does it adapt during the middle of the fight based off the enemy, sure a boss can change if you cast a certain ability, but the boss won't strafe a different way based on skill shots cast. Stop saying PVE has more variety, its just short sighted. Wanna know why it takes a superconductor days to map a way to win in strategy games vs humans, because it has to map billions of strategies, and those test have been done with games that have 5-10 mechanics, imagine a game like AOC with hundreds of mechanics, it would take months to map out enough possibilities to match a human. Games with limited interactions (chess) cannot apply here as there is a finite number of possibilities, unlike a player to player interaction. It is why mobas have millions of players running 1000's of hours on them on the same map day in day out. Is that why you like PvP? I've never viewed PvP as the more "interested and varied" game format. Isn't the entire point of PvP competition? There really isn't that much variation between PvP fights, it always comes down to who played closer to perfection. PvP is about doing the right thing faster than the other person. PvE is more interesting and varied because bosses and NPC enemies don't have to be balanced to be equal to the player. They can have crazy massive abilities and stats. PvP is awesome, but it's literally the most repetitive game type.
Mag7spy wrote: » worddog wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP. Okay technically there would be millions of encounters if you took 64 classes + augments to the probably hundreds of bosses and dozens of legendary raids, but you are absolutely wrong, no matter how many PVP encounters you have, they will never be the same, ~40ish abilities for 8 classes, add in augments, make it 8v8 what AOC is balancing the game around (therefore expecting the standard encounter to be) and you already have a greater number of potential variations, more importantly, a boss or raid, is only code, it will never truly change, it might randomize ability sets, scale based on dps or other things, but it will not change. You wanna 8vX me? You will never have the same fight twice, purely because humans can LEARN, PVE does not have the ability to match human interactions sure PVE difficulty can scale based on code, but it doesn't fluctuate when players have an off day or a good day, nor does it adapt during the middle of the fight based off the enemy, sure a boss can change if you cast a certain ability, but the boss won't strafe a different way based on skill shots cast. Stop saying PVE has more variety, its just short sighted. Wanna know why it takes a superconductor days to map a way to win in strategy games vs humans, because it has to map billions of strategies, and those test have been done with games that have 5-10 mechanics, imagine a game like AOC with hundreds of mechanics, it would take months to map out enough possibilities to match a human. Games with limited interactions (chess) cannot apply here as there is a finite number of possibilities, unlike a player to player interaction. It is why mobas have millions of players running 1000's of hours on them on the same map day in day out. Is that why you like PvP? I've never viewed PvP as the more "interested and varied" game format. Isn't the entire point of PvP competition? There really isn't that much variation between PvP fights, it always comes down to who played closer to perfection. PvP is about doing the right thing faster than the other person. PvE is more interesting and varied because bosses and NPC enemies don't have to be balanced to be equal to the player. They can have crazy massive abilities and stats. PvP is awesome, but it's literally the most repetitive game type. You are mixing up pvp with PvE. Nothing is more repetitive than PvE. Players adapt and change meaning PvP is the least kind of repetitive content and shown in games for decades being so. If you haven't done high tier player vrs player you are to young in the genre to seen the full depth of how things go. Meaning you have plenty more pvp content to experience if you can get there.
