Make Gathering Griefers Auto-Flag

Just trying to get ahead on this topic. If it's possible to harm another node by stripping all their resources, there should be a system to fight back against that. Currently, you'd have to go corrupt in order to stop a bot or an enemy-node gatherer. That's just not right!

I think the mayor should be able to place down policies to protect their node's resources. If you're trying to chop down all my wood before a siege, the mayor should be able to either hold a vote or use emergency powers to temporarily flag anyone purple for trying to gather specific resources.

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Comments

Strevi

Would be too basic and simple to just flag players.
Maybe gatherers could gain a positive reputation toward the node for which they harvest and a negative one toward the one they pillage. And that reputation to have consequences.

Voxtrium

Guild wars should solve this issue, enemy of the state as well

If sieged you are also auto declared on
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Sieges#cite_note-siege_alliances.png-29

Taaku

Could also have the Mayor of the node implement a "only residents" can harvest on the node. If they aren't a resident then they could auto flag. Would also make your choice of home node matter a bit more.

Ludullu

I'd agree with Strevi's suggestion of reputation based mechanics and they could maybe tie into the Enemy of the State mechanic or Node War one. Maybe make it easier to declare both/either of those things if players of your node catch an "intruder" overfarming your stuff. And players should have a streamlined way to indicate such intruders to their mayor.

Dolyem

I would say if a system had to be implemented to negate that sort of griefing, make it where if you gather too much in a certain amount of time, you become corrupted, or honestly even just become a combatant. Just able to be dealt with via PVP. Could even have it where if you gather outside of your home Node ZOI, you become flagged as a combatant. But thats assuming its actually necessary due to people turning the world into a barren landscape

George_Black

No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.

Taleof2Cities

Gathering is an allowed profession in Ashes, @Goalid.

In other words, nobody is fooled by you calling players (who choose to gather in another node) "griefers".

Giving the Mayor unilateral control over resources are you??

That doesn't entice other Forum-goers into having a meaningful discussion with you. Especially when it removes the "corruption" mechanic that's core to the game.

Will there be bots in Ashes?

We'll see how that plays out in Alpha 2 testing ... but I'm sure Intrepid has a plan.

Strevi

George_Black wrote: »

No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.

Don't be a Tulnar!

Depraved

Voxtrium wrote: »

Guild wars should solve this issue

you would have to accept the war.

i agree, gathering should flag players for a small amount of time

Mopy King

I'm hoping with the mayor being able to order certain gatherables to be left alone if they are scarce, that it'll come with a system that will put some sort of auto bounty on players harvesting that item.

I don't think corruption is needed per se as they probably shouldn't lose gear for it, but something that just allows node citizens to track down anyone breaking this "law" and kill the player without gaining corruption of any kind. Maybe just guarantee that the player gathering the stuff ordered to not be gathered would automatically drop their entire stock of it, or some of it being replanted immediately??..
I'd go against any kind of real bounty reward otherwise from mayor or anything like that as it would probably be abused easily by using alts to break law and killing them for bounty money.

George_Black

I cant believe what I am reading.

Depraved

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gathering is an allowed profession in Ashes, @Goalid.

In other words, nobody is fooled by you calling players (who choose to gather in another node) "griefers".

Giving the Mayor unilateral control over resources are you??

That doesn't entice other Forum-goers into having a meaningful discussion with you. Especially when it removes the "corruption" mechanic that's core to the game.

Will there be bots in Ashes?

We'll see how that plays out in Alpha 2 testing ... but I'm sure Intrepid has a plan.

i disagree with the mayor having too much control. with that being said:

combat and ow pvp are also allowed mechanics in aoc. so why put restrictions onto one but not onto another (gathering in this case).

when you grief, you are just killing other players withotu really gaining anything in return, other than the pleasure of making someone ragequit. you can make the case for constantly following asmongold around and killing him over and over so that he quits, and then this would reduce the queue times in that server, and also will make the server less laggy where he is, since his minions will quit with him. however, this is considered griefing and harrassment.

you can fight another player for a farming spot, or mob drop them as part of your fighting strategy. then you get to progress in that spot while they have to go somewhere else, this isnt griefing. you can also kill someone else gathering because you want that precious mithril for yourself. but when you just start killing people over and over, following them around, not letting them play the game, while you are also not gaining anything in return (any progression) that is called griefing. you can argue that you still get experience and also some materials from the other player corpse, but its still considered griefing or harassment.

now, lets apply the same logic to gathering. there might be resources that spawn only in a specific, or very few areas, so naturally, there will be conflict for those resources. cool, no problem here. player agency, risk vs reward, land management, etc. but when you constantly go to someone elses land just to devastate it and ruin it, to prevent them from progressing and not being able to gather anything themselves, isnt that griefing? sure you can argue that you gain materials (not in all cases, what if you kill all the rabbits and you arent even a hunter, you exterminate the rabbit populations and then the wolves go somewhere else, and then you ruin the land and ecosystem for other players), but this is the same as arguing that you are making the game more stable by getting rid of big streamers, or you are getting exp and leveling by following one player around and killing them over and over.

the open world pvp system kind of lets you fight back against this. except you can take an army of zergs and just go gather in someone elses land, you dont even have to flag. you can just decimate someone elses land even if you dont really need the materials, just so that they cant progress, and because you will all be green, the only thing the land owners can do is pk, putting themselves at huge risk. plus if you die gathering, it doesnt matter. you can come back and ruin someone elses land and on top of that, karma bomb them. this constitues as griefing. so tell me again why one group of players should be punished for griefing but not the other? double standards much?

players complain about big guilds locking down an aream to farm it themselves, or an entrance to a dungeon (or the dungeon itself) because other players wont be able to access the content temporarily, but no one is gonna complain about big guilds doing the same thing to the land? locking down land farming it and ruin it and blocking everybody from accessing content.

another reason why a pve server is a bad idea. you wouldnt even be able to prevent these players to overgather in an area if you cant kill them (unless you overgather yourself, thus ruining the land anyways).

i personally like this land management system. but i agree that there should be a risk asociated with it. there should be a away to deter people from ruining someone elses land.

Mopy King

George_Black wrote: »

No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.

If there were no systems "antagonizing" human behavior, then child labor would still be legal everywhere.
Human behavior at it's worst should be antagonized to some degree.
If a group of people can completely nuke a node's future resource supply with little to no risk, and there is no way for node citizens to fight against it without going corrupt... that's a pretty glaring issue. I highly doubt that there won't be some sort of system put in place to disincentivize such actions.

George_Black

Mopy King wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.

If there were no systems "antagonizing" human behavior, then child labor would still be legal everywhere.
Human behavior at it's worst should be antagonized to some degree.
If a group of people can completely nuke a node's future resource supply with little to no risk, and there is no way for node citizens to fight against it without going corrupt... that's a pretty glaring issue. I highly doubt that there won't be some sort of system put in place to disincentivize such actions.

...... ............

George_Black

Spare me the pseudo philisophies. How is this relevant to changing this open world mmo into scripted gameplay sessions?

If you are worried about people gathering in your area go and PK them. Your problem. Dont flag them because they will be an incovenience to you.

Same thing with leveling up. If somebody is taking mobs near me I pk him. It's my problem. I dont expect tje devs to autoflag him because he takes away my potential xp.

People kepp asking for things that are to THEIR BENEFIT. Not the benefit of the game. THEIR COMFORT.
How can you even type stuff like that and not expect to be told off?

George_Black

If people can take out your weak-ass node by fvking gathering, how do you expect to beat them in actual pvp? They are better than you, more organized, get over it instead of crying for help.

Such proposals will hurt EVERYONE BUT the "gRiefERs". It will just hurt people exploring and playing away from their nodes. You know, adventuring?

"Child labour".... what are you talking about son?

Mopy King

George_Black wrote: »

Spare me the psedo philosophies. How is that relevant to trying to change this open world mmo into scripted gameplay sessions?

How is it not? The worst of human behavior is already being "antagonized" by the corruption system in game.
People from one node going en mass into another to reap all their resources dry and leaving isn't something I want gone from the game. But the citizens of that node just having outsiders come in to take all their resources and bounce, and not having any decent way to counteract that besides doing the exact same thing to them.... is pretty bland.

Over gathering another node on purpose isn't on the same level of griefing as PKing someone repeatedly sure, but it's still a kind of griefing. Without some way for the node citizens to fight back without going corrupt that just destroys the risk v reward aspect of it all. Where is the risk for sucking a node's resources dry otherwise? No risk all benefit, who wants that?

George_Black

Why is everybody asking for safeguards at the prospect of defeat? Why?

Ye, just like I said in another topic, people want losing to be optional.

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

If people can take out your weak-ass node by fvking gathering, how do you expect to beat them in actual pvp? They are better than you, more organized, get over it instead of crying for help.

Such proposals will hurt EVERYONE BUT the "gRiefERs". It will just hurt people ecploring and playing away from their nodes.

Doesn't take much organization to tell your big guild to "just go cut down trees in this node so that they can't make defenses for the siege" and then repeat the same thing to your nodemates so that the situation couldn't be resolved with a guild war.

PKing dozens if not hundreds of people over and over and over again seems like character suicide rather than a logical solution to the attack on the node.

Sathrago

Yeah I dont think we need to auto flag players just for gathering. If you have a problem make a public announcement that players caught farming x will be attacked on sight and if they have a guild will be declared war on. They already seem to have enough tools planned to address this.

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