Make Gathering Griefers Auto-Flag

Just trying to get ahead on this topic. If it's possible to harm another node by stripping all their resources, there should be a system to fight back against that. Currently, you'd have to go corrupt in order to stop a bot or an enemy-node gatherer. That's just not right!

I think the mayor should be able to place down policies to protect their node's resources. If you're trying to chop down all my wood before a siege, the mayor should be able to either hold a vote or use emergency powers to temporarily flag anyone purple for trying to gather specific resources.

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Ludullu

Sathrago wrote: »

Yeah I dont think we need to auto flag players just for gathering. If you have a problem make a public announcement that players caught farming x will be attacked on sight and if they have a guild will be declared war on. They already seem to have enough tools planned to address this.

Which is exactly why I think that node reputation linked with node wars and Enemy of the State mechanics would be a good solution. Those systems are already in place and you just need to make the combination process a bit more streamlined than it might already be and you have yourself a great way to counter an aggressive gathering action.

George_Black

Mopy King wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Spare me the psedo philosophies. How is that relevant to trying to change this open world mmo into scripted gameplay sessions?

How is it not? The worst of human behavior is already being "antagonized" by the corruption system in game.
People from one node going en mass into another to reap all their resources dry and leaving isn't something I want gone from the game. But the citizens of that node just having outsiders come in to take all their resources and bounce, and not having any decent way to counteract that besides doing the exact same thing to them.... is pretty bland.

Over gathering another node on purpose isn't on the same level of griefing as PKing someone repeatedly sure, but it's still a kind of griefing. Without some way for the node citizens to fight back without going corrupt that just destroys the risk v reward aspect of it all. Where is the risk for sucking a node's resources dry otherwise? No risk all benefit, who wants that?

man stop bringing in serious real life issues in a video game discussion, and then expect people to node their heads solemnly and say "yes.. exactly". When will these loose and incorrect comparisons end in this forum?

Arya_Yeshe

Goalid wrote: »

Just trying to get ahead on this topic. If it's possible to harm another node by stripping all their resources, there should be a system to fight back against that. Currently, you'd have to go corrupt in order to stop a bot or an enemy-node gatherer. That's just not right!

I think the mayor should be able to place down policies to protect their node's resources. If you're trying to chop down all my wood before a siege, the mayor should be able to either hold a vote or use emergency powers to temporarily flag anyone purple for trying to gather specific resources.

Yes, it is very worrysome that griefing will come through PVE.
Asmongold perfectly explains this in his videos and he is a PVE griefer himself.

When you can't freely engage people they take that as a tool to harm you in many ways and deny content from you.

Depraved

its true. maybe auto flagging isnt the solution. or maybe it is. i dont know, ill leave that to the devs since they are the only ones with all the information about the game. but there is a deterrent for people to attack someone over and over for no reason. by the same token, there should be a deterrent for people to destroy someone elses land (example, coe was gonna have a crime system, but the game never came out

).

hit max level, equip trash gear and mass suicide on another territory and gather/hunt everything. you get all the rewards with no risks. the defenders will have to be perma red and probably wont even be able to lose karma since the mobs wont even be spawning.

BaSkA_9x2

Let's ask the developers to add features to the game to protect me from my enemies.

Mopy King

George_Black wrote: »

man stop bringing in serious real life issues in a video game discussion, and then expect people to node their heads solemnly and say "yes.. exactly". When will these loose and incorrect comparisons end in this forum?

Ok?? You started the talk with antagonizing human behavior but sure lets keep it purely game.

Just tell me why you think it's fine for a group of people use up another nodes resources without the other node having any decent way to fight back outside of killing them and gaining corruption? Why do you want near zero risk for the people taking another nodes resources? Is risk vs reward not something you want?

I'm not trying to argue stubbornly for one specific system like auto flagging.. I don't care.. just something.. How you find that ridiculous is just odd to me.

Strevi

BaSkA13 wrote: »

Let's ask the developers to add features to the game to protect me from my enemies.

Then I will ask to add as feature the ability to tickle to death!

Depraved

BaSkA13 wrote: »

Let's ask the developers to add features to the game to protect me from my enemies.

thats literally what they did with the corruption penalties and stat dampening

drop the sarcasm.

my point is, its unfair that the system and also customer support punishes pvpers (notice how i said system and cs, basically intrepid, not other players) but another group of players get a free pass from intrepid, and the only way to deter them is by engaging in the systems that will get me punished in the same place.

if joe comes to my land and tries to chop all the trees down and i kill him over and over and follow him around and dont allow him to chop a single tree, then the game mechanics punish me and also he might report me for harassment and i get an aditional punishment from intrepid. how is that fair for me? im simply trying to not let joe ruin my land through the land management system. if joe leaves my land i wont pursue him, nevermind that ill probably be too busy trying to cleanse all the corruption i got, plus other players might kill me and i lose my gear

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

nevermind that ill probably be too busy trying to cleanse all the corruption i got, plus other players might kill me and i lose my gear

I can definitely see how this system will be one of the main PK baits in the game, if there's no other way to counter aggressive gatherers.

George_Black

Mopy King wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

man stop bringing in serious real life issues in a video game discussion, and then expect people to node their heads solemnly and say "yes.. exactly". When will these loose and incorrect comparisons end in this forum?

Ok?? You started the talk with antagonizing human behavior but sure lets keep it purely game.

Just tell me why you think it's fine for a group of people use up another nodes resources without the other node having any decent way to fight back outside of killing them and gaining corruption? Why do you want near zero risk for the people taking another nodes resources? Is risk vs reward not something you want?

I'm not trying to argue stubbornly for one specific system like auto flagging.. I don't care.. just something.. How you find that ridiculous is just odd to me.

Your decent way is go fight them. You are a node community? Talk to each other. Establish that you PK intruders. Then all together go and burn off the corruption with the sabotouers gone.
Some of you might act trecherously, and attack your communities heroic PKers. Heal them. Protect them. You will turn purple for healing your Red heroes. The traitors might flag on your healers. Fair game take them out then.

Wonderful human stories. So much better than npc questing (MQS).

You dont need the proposal of this topic. You dont need to restrict human behaviour. Create your own red legends. Discover the traitors in your community. Or the enemy gatherers might turn around and pvp anyway.

Dont you see how wrong it is to create such unnecessary systems?
Dont you see how many real players stories WONT EVER HAPPEN if you try to control and make the game scripted?

Okeydoke

George is like my philosophical soul mate, generally lol. So don't bite my head off George. But I'm seeing it from Goalid's perspective a little more at the moment.

If they're going to create this land management system, that can kinda be used offensively by enemy guilds, enemy nodes, and this is the key part, unguilded and un-noded players, you need a way to fight back against it. If your only recourse is corruption system killing, especially against the unguilded and un-noded, that doesn't seem tenable to me. Maybe I'm missing something though.

I may be misreading some of what Steven said, but my impression coming away from this stream is that the corruption system is going to be harsh...hella harsh. Even if it ends up being on the more lenient side (fat chance) how would you be able to keep constantly defending your resources against unguilded and un-noded players? It's like built in karma bombing. What am I missing?

George_Black

Okeydoke wrote: »

George is like my philosophical soul mate, generally lol. So don't bite my head off George. But I'm seeing it from Goalid's perspective a little more at the moment.

If they're going to create this land management system, that can kinda be used offensively by enemy guilds, enemy nodes, and this is the key part, unguilded and un-noded players, you need a way to fight back against it. If your only recourse is corruption system killing, especially against the unguilded and un-noded, that doesn't seem tenable to me. Maybe I'm missing something though.

I may be misreading some of what Steven said, but my impression coming away from this stream is that the corruption system is going to be harsh...hella harsh. Even if it ends up being on the more lenient side (fat chance) how would you be able to keep constantly defending your resources against unguilded and un-noded players? It's like built in karma bombing. What am I missing?

I will take a bit of a roundabout way to land my answer so bear with me. Here it comes.

Mopy King

George_Black wrote: »

Your decent way is go fight them. You are a node community? Talk to each other. Establish that you PK intruders. Then all together go and burn off the corruption with the sabotouers gone.
Some of you might act trecherously, and attack your communities heroic PKers. Heal them. Protect them. You will turn purple for healing your Red heroes. The traitors might flag on your healers. Fair game take them out then.

Wonderful human stories. So much better than npc questing (MQS).

You dont need the proposal of this topic. You dont need to restrict human behaviour. Create your own red legends. Discover the traitors in your community. Or the enemy gatherers might turn around and pvp anyway.

Dont you see how wrong it is to create such unnecessary systems?
Dont you see how many real players stories WONT EVER HAPPEN if you try to control and make the game scripted?

The thing is I think less interesting player stories will happen without something different for fighting off people purposely over harvesting a node.

Sure you can PK them and get corruption.. Then that person can just come right back and start gathering. Meanwhile you're off working off your corruption.

I just don't think PKing those people would be worth it for anybody... would people not just follow suit and overharvest another node on purpose for revenge?

You can risk losing your gear by fighting people off of the resources on your land, or just go to that persons node and use up the resources there.. And if they're mad about it and kill you they go corrupt. Just sounds like a win/win to the people purposely harvesting scarce resources... and sucks to be the other guys.

So yeah, I guess we just disagree where good stories would be more likely to be made. Fair enough.

Ludullu

Okeydoke wrote: »

It's like built in karma bombing. What am I missing?

Hell, the lvl1 gatherer meme would literally work now, because everyone can just make a quick alt and go chop trees. And ya ain't PKing those bois with your mains. So you'd have to go down the George route of making lvl5 dudes to PK those lvl1 dudes, except your alts will stat dampen to all hell pretty quickly, while the lvl1 gatherers couldn't care less because they can either make more alts or just keep cutting trees on the og alt, if XP debt doesn't influence artisan stuff (which I don't think it does in any way).

This shit is really starting to seem more and more abusable by the minute.

Okeydoke

NiKr wrote: »

Hell, the lvl1 gatherer meme would literally work now

Yeah the lvl 1 gatherer meme would make it all worse, but even that is not required. Max level players, either un guilded, or un-noded can just keep coming back. You lose more killing them every time, going deeper and deeper red.

And this is all just assuming that the guild war declaration and node war declaration system will be free flowing and pretty unrestricted. If it's not, if it's overly burdensome to declare wars, then even those players will be an issue with this system.

But assuming those players are not an issue, unguilded and un-noded would still very much so be an issue, no matter their character level. Unless I'm missing something here.

George_Black

Steven started saying something today and I was about to (--) in my pants, but he didn't deliver the way I wanted it to happen and I was left disappointed.
He started answering to people that said "other games have used such flagging systems but they werent successful deterrents" and he started giving reasons why the AoC system will work. As soon as he said "combat stats reduction" I was like "not again.. not again... STEVEN!! Just say that people should look at the bigger picture!! Just say that reaching max lv in AoC, or getting competitive gear wont be as ez as people are used in todays mmos!! Just focus on the true strong argument about why ppl wont go red. Not only because of the loss of items, but because these lost items WONT BE EZ TO REPLACE!! Come on.. enough with the stat weakening. Big picture Steven!! Those other mmos that had some flagging system (except L2) had ez lv up, had ez gearing up, had teleports and ez respawns. Big picture Steven!! AoC has many interlinked systems that support each other. All the philosophies combines make it things meaningful, that can't be thrown away just to have some griefing fun for a big, without lasting consequences. That's what happens in the other games that did away with real achievements, and make the gameplay to finish, and relied on lame tasks like "collect this fish by easily cliking the fishing action, then collect the next, fish, oh you have 200 fish, now you are a master angler. Now let's do colors. Now let's do mounts; dont worry about losing, you will easily game the achievement, it's just a matter of time without any other opposing force."
In AoC people won't risk losing their HARD EARNED GEAR just to pk many random people, or for some lame raw mats percentage. Big picture. Complete picture.

People should look at the bigger picture. People should somehow start holding on to more information and use that information that has been given over the years IF they want to contribute. People should look at the bigger picture and understand that enemy resource thiefs:
1 will have to spend time traveling to the victim node through a world with tough open world mobs
2 people will have to spend hours doing a lame activity, and that requires dedication and organization
in order to effectively harvest a node critical resources you will need a lot of GOOD gatherers who may not be willing to engage in the ultimate goal of attacking a node which they may not consider as an enemy
3 will eventually need to spend a lot of time in creating a node siege declaration scroll, and if that's not the goal why even go to such an effort

It will be hard to achieve all that and coordinate ENOUGH players dedicated to ruin a nodes resources. The numbers of the 'griefers' wont be big. They can be dealt with. Even if such thing destruction happens at this point, it would be something to admire, not code to prevent. It would be such a historic gameplay that defenders would WANT to become a Red hero and become famous, not something that they see as an joyless task. In a few words such an event will be hard to happen in the scale that people are afraid off, and if it does it will make for good gameplay. Most of the times it wont be anything close to what people are afraid of. It will be just 10 or some nabs, trying to grief and they will get PKed in no time and sent home.

Big picture. Dont sweat the small things.

Ludullu

Okeydoke wrote: »

Yeah the lvl 1 gatherer meme would make it all worse, but even that is not required. Max level players, either un guilded, or un-noded can just keep coming back. You lose more killing them every time, going deeper and deeper red.

And this is all just assuming that the guild war declaration and node war declaration system will be free flowing and pretty unrestricted. If it's not, if it's overly burdensome to declare wars, then even those players will be an issue with this system.

But assuming those players are not an issue, unguilded and un-noded would still very much so be an issue, no matter their character level. Unless I'm missing something here.

Nah, I ain't getting myself unneeded XP debt on my main, f that. I'm making a lvl1 gatherer (or whichever will be the smallest lvl possible for this trick) and go fuck up some node's resources. EZ

I sure as hell hope Intrepid has some solutions to this and Steven just forgot to mention those (or I might've missed them? gonna rewatch it later).

George_Black

Mopy King wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Your decent way is go fight them. You are a node community? Talk to each other. Establish that you PK intruders. Then all together go and burn off the corruption with the sabotouers gone.
Some of you might act trecherously, and attack your communities heroic PKers. Heal them. Protect them. You will turn purple for healing your Red heroes. The traitors might flag on your healers. Fair game take them out then.

Wonderful human stories. So much better than npc questing (MQS).

You dont need the proposal of this topic. You dont need to restrict human behaviour. Create your own red legends. Discover the traitors in your community. Or the enemy gatherers might turn around and pvp anyway.

Dont you see how wrong it is to create such unnecessary systems?
Dont you see how many real players stories WONT EVER HAPPEN if you try to control and make the game scripted?

The thing is I think less interesting player stories will happen without something different for fighting off people purposely over harvesting a node.

Sure you can PK them and get corruption.. Then that person can just come right back and start gathering. Meanwhile you're off working off your corruption.

I just don't think PKing those people would be worth it for anybody... would people not just follow suit and overharvest another node on purpose for revenge?

You can risk losing your gear by fighting people off of the resources on your land, or just go to that persons node and use up the resources there.. And if they're mad about it and kill you they go corrupt. Just sounds like a win/win to the people purposely harvesting scarce resources... and sucks to be the other guys.

So yeah, I guess we just disagree where good stories would be more likely to be made. Fair enough.

Ye, not everybody wants to spend all day trying to destroy your precious little node. Get over your self. People have other things to do that chopping down your trees all day long. How much more discussions is this ridiculous topic worth?

George_Black

Look at me wasting all this time... If organized masses of people come to take away your rocks, that means they are in a guild. Declare war on them tree chopping rock stealing guilds and pvp them without PKing. You dont need extra systems, like the other guys has been suggesting "soft flags" and what not. Bye

Arya_Yeshe

George_Black wrote: »

Your decent way is go fight them. You are a node community? Talk to each other. Establish that you PK intruders. Then all together go and burn off the corruption with the sabotouers gone.
Some of you might act trecherously, and attack your communities heroic PKers. Heal them. Protect them. You will turn purple for healing your Red heroes. The traitors might flag on your healers. Fair game take them out then.

Wonderful human stories. So much better than npc questing (MQS).

You dont need the proposal of this topic. You dont need to restrict human behaviour. Create your own red legends. Discover the traitors in your community. Or the enemy gatherers might turn around and pvp anyway.

Dont you see how wrong it is to create such unnecessary systems?
Dont you see how many real players stories WONT EVER HAPPEN if you try to control and make the game scripted?

Yes, people have to come together and work their way over the content.

Bot aspirant gatheres should be treated as NPCs and killed on sight.

Everybody should be praising their local hero PK, protecting the woods, the mineral riches and all your node's fauna.

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