Just make a lv5 PK char with lv1 gear

And kill all those pesky Lv1 super gatherers.

Many months ago, somebody though that the Devs would let people bypass character progress, open world pvp and risk vs reward, said (without thinking too much, but wanting to appear intelligent) "since combat progression and artisan progression aren't the same people will have Lv1 master gatherers/crafters". They wouldn't admit to the fact that that's ridiculous. Oh well.

Today you heard it. How did you even expected to progress a Lv1 char, in a dangerous open world, by just focusing on artisanship, ignoring potential combat? How? It wont happen.
And even if it does and people start carrying around treasures with low lv chars, just make a low lv low item PK char and take all their stuff and watch them say "the corruption system didn't work when I tried to bypass it"

And as you heard in todays live stream, "be informed. Watch. Read". And then think.

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Sathrago

Percimes wrote: »

High seas, deep ocean, bottomless depths... Generally, games don't allow you to access these dark places. So no deep diving for the Heart of the Ocean or oil. "Deep-sea fishing This is a more sports-oriented style of fishing, which will feature a mini-game. This will require equipment, such as fishing boats and expensive lures, but will yield higher rewards", so it's not really gathering exactly. The map shows a grand total of 3 smallish islands. Are things turn back normal once on the islands? Corruption and all. How are moving large quantity of resources from these island different that a caravan?

I'm not saying it's all safe and the same as on land, but I have a hard time being convinced it will have a dramatic effect all things considered. I guess, for me, it will depend on how far from the shore the zone begins. There's also the unknown of ship speed, so it could be possible to cross the danger zone quick enough that large armed ship can't follow you, but not having significant cargo capacity. Or a fast mount that can dive out of reach of ship based attacked. I'm rather optimist for once.

You do realize that archeage, one of the primary catalysts for this game existing and where most of the naval and fishing design come from, has no aforementioned "bottomless zones". Right? The entire ocean floor was accessible from what I remember, and you could dive with special vehicles or gear to harvest, battle monsters, and treasure hunt.
As for Deep-sea Fishing, how is it "not really gathering" Do you even know what you are saying? What part of that made it not really gathering? The gathering part? or the you need tools to gather part?

Edit: Also, you do not need to add every little island to the map. And you didnt understand what I meant. These islands would most likely still be considered open seas territory and still flag you. Naturally this was speculation. its just one of many ways they could bring gathering in this high risk area for high quality and rare materials.

Arya_Yeshe

Noaani wrote: »

You have a misplaced notion of what PvE players are.

I mean, you start this post out with "Carebears are just bad players because", yet I have seen many posts where you complain that "carebears" will oppress PvP players.

What you seem to miss in that is if one group of players is able to oppress another in an MMO with PvP enabled, and yet are able to do so without even using PvP, that group of players oppressing the other is orders of magnitude better at the game than the group of oppressed players.

I mean, if you think carebears are bad at the game, yet also think they will oppress you in game, what does that say about you?

I know PVE people really well.

They just farm like drone ants and ignore the player drive content.

AoC will be the first game in which PVE carebears will oppress people from the other node because they will farm so much xp in their node that will become the master node... vassal nodes can not declare node war against the master.

PVE carebears will also be able to destroy your fauna and flora behind a Corruption system if they want to.

Those are two examples of unnatural interactions among players, carebears will go for a power grab through PVE, just like when they lock a dungeon in World of Warcraft.

Xenotor

Didnt steven say that tools will have level requirements from your combat class?
I have to re watch the whole thing but that would get rid of the low level gatherers in one go.

Sathrago

Xenotor wrote: »

Didnt steven say that tools will have level requirements from your combat class?
I have to re watch the whole thing but that would get rid of the low level gatherers in one go.

Yep.

Ludullu

Xenotor wrote: »

Didnt steven say that tools will have level requirements from your combat class?
I have to re watch the whole thing but that would get rid of the low level gatherers in one go.

But from what I understand tools just make your artisan life easier. So, in theory, low lvls should still be able to gather general resources in the fields.

There's a chance that some nodes will only have some high lvl resources around, but I feel like that goes against the "you see a tree - you cut it" phrase from the stream.

Sathrago

NiKr wrote: »

Xenotor wrote: »

Didnt steven say that tools will have level requirements from your combat class?
I have to re watch the whole thing but that would get rid of the low level gatherers in one go.

But from what I understand tools just make your artisan life easier. So, in theory, low lvls should still be able to gather general resources in the fields.

There's a chance that some nodes will only have some high lvl resources around, but I feel like that goes against the "you see a tree - you cut it" phrase from the stream.

I believe steven mentioned if you weren't high enough level or have the higher level tool you wouldn't be able to cut down the larger trees.

Strevi

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

You have a misplaced notion of what PvE players are.

I mean, you start this post out with "Carebears are just bad players because", yet I have seen many posts where you complain that "carebears" will oppress PvP players.

What you seem to miss in that is if one group of players is able to oppress another in an MMO with PvP enabled, and yet are able to do so without even using PvP, that group of players oppressing the other is orders of magnitude better at the game than the group of oppressed players.

I mean, if you think carebears are bad at the game, yet also think they will oppress you in game, what does that say about you?

I know PVE people really well.

They just farm like drone ants and ignore the player drive content.

AoC will be the first game in which PVE carebears will oppress people from the other node because they will farm so much xp in their node that will become the master node... vassal nodes can not declare node war against the master.

PVE carebears will also be able to destroy your fauna and flora behind a Corruption system if they want to.

Those are two examples of unnatural interactions among players, carebears will go for a power grab through PVE, just like when they lock a dungeon in World of Warcraft.

And Steven is God

"look but don't touch"
"touch but don't taste"
...

Percimes

@Sathrago I don't know anything about Archeage, nor do I really care about that game. It's another game. Some of its concepts may inspire AoC, but I'll wait to see what is announced.

I'm also quite ok with some content being out of reach for some players. I know I'll probably never raid and I'm not bitter that the best rewards are often behind that type of gameplay. I never visited the Plans when I played EQ, but I was glad they existed. I never entered Molten Core, but I thought it cool that this kind of challenge existed for those who looked for it. So I perceive the high sea as a huge ship battleground, with known rules about it. You don't have to go there. You don't have to harvest its resources: you decide to do so.

As for high sea fishing vs. gathering. When I think gathering I expect what we saw in the demo. You go from resource point to resource point and gather the resources as you go. The high sea equivalent would be to cast nets to catch small fishes. What they present it to be is more akin to hunting, finding a big prey and mini game it on the deck of your ship. Marlin or sailfish kind of fishing instead of school of fishes.

Ludullu

Sathrago wrote: »

I believe steven mentioned if you weren't high enough level or have the higher level tool you wouldn't be able to cut down the larger trees.

If that's the case, that would mean that the big trees are the juiciest and are meant for the pro lumberjacks. They'll probably be the first ones to be cut by the citizens of the attacked node (in the context of a directed aggressive gathering). So most of the trees/gatherables would be on the early-mid life stage, which theoretically would be cuttable by either lowest or just a bit low lvl artisans. And any potential super young or super old tree could be cut down by high lvl gatherers from the attacking node/guild. And realistically you wouldn't differentiate them from any given passerby gatherer, unless you knew exactly who your enemies are.

And if this kind of action seems any beneficial results, I'm sure that hardcore guilds will just make their members level up gatherer alts to do these aggressive gathering "raids".

I've seen this kind of action made by muuuultiple guilds in L2, because you had several epic bosses at lower lvls and once your guild was all maxed out in leveling - you'd need your members to make alts. And everyone did because it was beneficial to the guild.

Xenotor

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Citizenship

Considering your citizenship is 1 per account, you can declare war on the offending node / guild and it doesn't matter that they change to an alt character.
Even their level 1 alt should be marked as enemy and be ok to kill without getting corruption during the war.

If its a single person, then declaring them enemy of the state should do the same hopefully.
We sadly still know little about this mechanic at the moment

Arya_Yeshe

Xenotor wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Citizenship

Considering your citizenship is 1 per account, you can declare war on the offending node / guild and it doesn't matter that they change to an alt character.
Even their level 1 alt should be marked as enemy and be ok to kill without getting corruption during the war.

If its a single person, then declaring them enemy of the state should do the same hopefully.
We sadly still know little about this mechanic at the moment

Unless you are a vassal node then you can't declare war, you got to suck it up or try guild wars.

Gizban

George_Black wrote: »

insomnia wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Ma man!
That's the way people got to start thinking, carebears will be weasels behind a system like that while holding hands with the Corruption system.

Low level pk all the way for killing the neighbours you dont like.

And then the game will die. You clearly aren't to bright. Maybe you should seek help, with this need you have, to ruin the gaming experience for others

Get out of here.

Chasing off those you don't agree with? Grow up.

Noaani

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

PVE carebears will also be able to destroy your fauna and flora behind a Corruption system if they want to.

I mean, if they are able to do this, it by default makes them better at the game than you.

carebears will go for a power grab through PVE, just like when they lock a dungeon in World of Warcraft.

Can you explain to me what you mean by this?

Ludullu

Xenotor wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Citizenship

Considering your citizenship is 1 per account, you can declare war on the offending node / guild and it doesn't matter that they change to an alt character.
Even their level 1 alt should be marked as enemy and be ok to kill without getting corruption during the war.

If its a single person, then declaring them enemy of the state should do the same hopefully.
We sadly still know little about this mechanic at the moment

This has been my understanding as well, but there's possible other interpretations of the Steven's quote and there's a chance that only one of your characters is a citizen.

So until further clarifications, we don't know what's gonna be the case in the game.

George_Black

insomnia wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Ma man!
That's the way people got to start thinking, carebears will be weasels behind a system like that while holding hands with the Corruption system.

Low level pk all the way for killing the neighbours you dont like.

And then the game will die. You clearly aren't to bright. Maybe you should seek help, with this need you have, to ruin the gaming experience for others

Get out of here.

pyreal wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

insomnia wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Ma man!
That's the way people got to start thinking, carebears will be weasels behind a system like that while holding hands with the Corruption system.

Low level pk all the way for killing the neighbours you dont like.

And then the game will die. You clearly aren't to bright. Maybe you should seek help, with this need you have, to ruin the gaming experience for others

Get out of here.

Chasing off those you don't agree with? Grow up.

Riiight.....

FuryBladeborne

George_Black wrote: »

And kill all those pesky Lv1 super gatherers.

Many months ago, somebody though that the Devs would let people bypass character progress, open world pvp and risk vs reward, said (without thinking too much, but wanting to appear intelligent) "since combat progression and artisan progression aren't the same people will have Lv1 master gatherers/crafters". They wouldn't admit to the fact that that's ridiculous. Oh well.

Today you heard it. How did you even expected to progress a Lv1 char, in a dangerous open world, by just focusing on artisanship, ignoring potential combat? How? It wont happen.
And even if it does and people start carrying around treasures with low lv chars, just make a low lv low item PK char and take all their stuff and watch them say "the corruption system didn't work when I tried to bypass it"

And as you heard in todays live stream, "be informed. Watch. Read". And then think.

In the hypothetical scenario given (even though it is probably not practical enough to exist), anybody can attack the level 5 killer without consequence while the level 5 is flagged or red named.

George_Black

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

And kill all those pesky Lv1 super gatherers.

Many months ago, somebody though that the Devs would let people bypass character progress, open world pvp and risk vs reward, said (without thinking too much, but wanting to appear intelligent) "since combat progression and artisan progression aren't the same people will have Lv1 master gatherers/crafters". They wouldn't admit to the fact that that's ridiculous. Oh well.

Today you heard it. How did you even expected to progress a Lv1 char, in a dangerous open world, by just focusing on artisanship, ignoring potential combat? How? It wont happen.
And even if it does and people start carrying around treasures with low lv chars, just make a low lv low item PK char and take all their stuff and watch them say "the corruption system didn't work when I tried to bypass it"

And as you heard in todays live stream, "be informed. Watch. Read". And then think.

In the hypothetical scenario given (even though it is probably not practical enough to exist), anybody can attack the level 5 killer without consequence while the level 5 is flagged or red named.

Players use Lv1 mules? You go with your group +1 Lv5 char. You find those notorious Lv1 rich mules, you get your Lv5 to do the killing, you pick up those imaginary treasures.
Then let whoever wants to approach your red Lv5, you protect it. If they touch, you heal, if they touch your purple healer, you kill, if your Lv5 red dies, you spam pick up.

Point is, the whole Lv1 mules is ridiculous as I said many months ago, the devs wouldnt allow crafters/gatherers to bypass levelin up in the open world pvp, thus avoiding the dangers, as told on this months update, but ye....
Some people floated the idea of griefing PKers with low lv chars... (which was also laughable) but since I see ppl struggling with common logic, here is a Lv5 lv1 item plan for you.

I cant believe that people made a fuss about such things months ago, and I cant believe that people want to seriously debate this topic.

So many try to outhink the Devs, thinking they found the holes in the system alrdy; some proceed to suggest changes, without even realized how limited their understanding was at the moment of their lightbulb, without even realizing how ridiculous their far stretched/forced scenarios were.

Come and kill me Lv5. Whatever.

Somebody, who I cant dress with verbs due to forum rules, even said that I shut down ppl I disagreed with in this topic, not having understood that the person at the beginning of the quotes didnt even knew what was being discussed here.

Anyways. Month after month Steven will deflect peoples "cOnCerNs" and then say "feedback welcome".
But... do note that he pretty much said "educate yourselfs" in a nicer way that I would ever care to say.

FuryBladeborne

George_Black wrote: »

Come and kill me Lv5. Whatever.

You made a level 5 to kill level 1 gatherers to take their stuff. But then you can't protect yourself to keep that stuff as anyone can kill you while purple or red named and take at least some of whatever you went way out of your way to kill for.

So, you need to make a level 5 character (which I imagine will take a few hours to a couple of days given that levelling to 50 is projected to take about 6 weeks playing 4-6 hours a day) , locate a level 1 player that is built into a maxed gatherer (in your original example) in a large world and the gatherer has to have enough useful mats to make it worth the time to hunt him or her down when you only get a percentage of the mats after killing the gatherer. If all this works out, you still need to get the mats back to safety while purple or red named.

Its hard for me to imagine very many people succeeding at this even if people actually try it. Which I doubt. Because it seems like a waste of time with a low reward and little control over what you can get.

Arya_Yeshe

Noaani wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

PVE carebears will also be able to destroy your fauna and flora behind a Corruption system if they want to.

I mean, if they are able to do this, it by default makes them better at the game than you.

carebears will go for a power grab through PVE, just like when they lock a dungeon in World of Warcraft.

Can you explain to me what you mean by this?

Alright, I will explain myself:

1) in the land management system if you harvest everything of a certain thing, that won't grow back easily, it will take a long time and there will be scarcity... even animals will go live somewhere else because the land devastation. The land deterioration itself will ask for crop rotation

2) the node will be upgraded through the generated xp, PVE activities will level the node and this will make the surrounding nodes as slave nodes. So carebears can go for a power grab and level their node just with PVE

That's fine, if they do it because they are smart that is fine.
But look at this:
-where are the counters against that?
-vassal nodes can't declare war against the master nodes
-ganking their gatheres will likely poop on your character because corruption

This leaves people with guild wars, we don't know much about it right now.

Goalid

I can see this being a response to killing low leveled alts if you've prepared for it. But, it's still a huge problem that you're going to have to get several PKs and extremely large amounts of corruption to prevent gathering griefing.

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