Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DPS meters and wanting everyone to be tracked on a website is the first step to toxic mentality / gameplay. No one is talking about having everyone tracked on a website. No one is asking for that. At this point, I have to restate my claim that you do not know what a combat tracker is or does.
Mag7spy wrote: » DPS meters and wanting everyone to be tracked on a website is the first step to toxic mentality / gameplay.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DPS meters and wanting everyone to be tracked on a website is the first step to toxic mentality / gameplay. No one is talking about having everyone tracked on a website. No one is asking for that. At this point, I have to restate my claim that you do not know what a combat tracker is or does. You realize he is linking wow logs while you make this statement, right?
So you are assuming what I'm saying is a tracker tracks you on a website, because if you are assuming that you are giving me HEAVY flashbacks to another thread. Removing logic form my point for weird reasons.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DPS meters and wanting everyone to be tracked on a website is the first step to toxic mentality / gameplay. No one is talking about having everyone tracked on a website. No one is asking for that. At this point, I have to restate my claim that you do not know what a combat tracker is or does. You realize he is linking wow logs while you make this statement, right? Yeah, as an example of combat analysis. Why did you reply to one post using two posts? So you are assuming what I'm saying is a tracker tracks you on a website, because if you are assuming that you are giving me HEAVY flashbacks to another thread. Removing logic form my point for weird reasons. No, I'm saying you probably saw a link to WoWlogs and didnt bother looking at the context. I mean, you have a long history of not reading before you reply - or at least not understanding. You let your pre-formed opinions dictate how you absorb information, and anything that contradicts that gets ignored, or twisted in to something that supports your pre-formed opinions.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » How you design a game will have an impact on how players play the game, this is reason why I think many big companies should have an impact on ones spiritual growth. Competition leads to toxicism in gaming as we can see how gaming era changed from 90s to 2020s. WoWs downfall is creating theme park MMOs that forces player to play for reward, giving more conveniences made people more spoiled and making game overly competitive. Also I want to give my opinion to theme park progression vs sandbox is that theme park MMOs create impatience thus is another failure of devs creating game for players, because I see games as books, writers should be careful what they write the same way devs should be careful as what he is creating (if he wants the good for community at least in his game) Many ''bad'' things are connected to being wise in gaming such as not having competitive modes like dmg meters, the same way one that is poor and gets wise... Both are hard and bad, but have good results.
Mag7spy wrote: » Asmongold literarily shows this content on stream....
NiKr wrote: » My comment about ancient evil awakening was quite prophetic
Azherae wrote: » I've never personally met anyone who started 'nice' and turned 'spoiled' due to game mechanics, though I'm sure they exist.
Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity. omg, one more guy ho cry that "DPS meters bring toxic in game".... Dps\Hps meters give you much more power to scale your build so its MUST be 1000000% in mmo. Another question is whether the information from these meters would be public or not. In terms of the head of Intrepid Studios being a fan of Lineage2 (there is no game more toxic than Lineage. And let's close the subject of toxicity I beg you, in mmo should not play people who can be offended if they are told that they are trash.) i'm sure that most things in the game associated with the character will be conditionally non-public as well as in Lineage, so the report / statistic of the battle will probably not be public. For me personally, as I have written many times in this thread. Battle report tools must be in mmo game, without them the life of a leader of the group/clan/raid becomes hell, as it is very difficult to understand in more detail where and who makes mistakes, or does not perform their task at all, the most basic tool dps / hps meter can help improve the build, and in case someone in the group clearly become ballast, help him sort out this problem You don't need a dps meter to improve your build game has a combat log. It should be clear if someone is not doing anything constantly, and if someone is not preforming to your liking its simply because you want to kick them and don't believe they can improve on their own without you yelling at them. Only reason you want a dps meter is so you can stat pad for no reason in a game that isnt designed for a dps meter. I don't understand your term "game that isnt designed for a dps meter", what is this bullshit? the game can't be made for the dps meter... do you even understand what a "metric" is? Metrics in any form can be applied to any numerical source (and not only numerical, but we are talking about them at the moment). So what the hell are you talking about? Often dps/hps meters are just based on the combat log, so if there is a combat log it is very easy to make a simple dps meter. As for the fact that dps counters are often used to show off to others, that has its place, and that is often what is used, but if one is truly better than others and trying harder than others, then why not, I personally don't care. Personally for me it is important that the game would have an api, or advanced combat log, for example WoW (https://www.warcraftlogs.com), go and see if you never faced with what should look like an analysis of combat, and I need it in order to improve my team, who heals whom, to see who hits whom and when, in order to understand what targets my DD focus, etc. AoC is not world of warcraft, game is not based on instanced dungeons it is open world. You can use combat log and test your damage there and find out what you have that is effective or not. You might not care but it just shows how pointless DPs meters are, and makes people care more about numbers than understanding what is actually going on. You literarily do not need it nor is it a necessity, the combat log will do that plenty for you in viewing your damage. No one wants you viewing their logs, it is not important you literarily just want that to flex when half of it is pointless be it rng, people stacking, or people just ignoring mechanics to push numbers while their team dies. I'd really temper what u expect out of a PvX mmorpg compared to WoW that is focused on instanced dungeons where you can't be pvped in...
ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity. omg, one more guy ho cry that "DPS meters bring toxic in game".... Dps\Hps meters give you much more power to scale your build so its MUST be 1000000% in mmo. Another question is whether the information from these meters would be public or not. In terms of the head of Intrepid Studios being a fan of Lineage2 (there is no game more toxic than Lineage. And let's close the subject of toxicity I beg you, in mmo should not play people who can be offended if they are told that they are trash.) i'm sure that most things in the game associated with the character will be conditionally non-public as well as in Lineage, so the report / statistic of the battle will probably not be public. For me personally, as I have written many times in this thread. Battle report tools must be in mmo game, without them the life of a leader of the group/clan/raid becomes hell, as it is very difficult to understand in more detail where and who makes mistakes, or does not perform their task at all, the most basic tool dps / hps meter can help improve the build, and in case someone in the group clearly become ballast, help him sort out this problem You don't need a dps meter to improve your build game has a combat log. It should be clear if someone is not doing anything constantly, and if someone is not preforming to your liking its simply because you want to kick them and don't believe they can improve on their own without you yelling at them. Only reason you want a dps meter is so you can stat pad for no reason in a game that isnt designed for a dps meter. I don't understand your term "game that isnt designed for a dps meter", what is this bullshit? the game can't be made for the dps meter... do you even understand what a "metric" is? Metrics in any form can be applied to any numerical source (and not only numerical, but we are talking about them at the moment). So what the hell are you talking about? Often dps/hps meters are just based on the combat log, so if there is a combat log it is very easy to make a simple dps meter. As for the fact that dps counters are often used to show off to others, that has its place, and that is often what is used, but if one is truly better than others and trying harder than others, then why not, I personally don't care. Personally for me it is important that the game would have an api, or advanced combat log, for example WoW (https://www.warcraftlogs.com), go and see if you never faced with what should look like an analysis of combat, and I need it in order to improve my team, who heals whom, to see who hits whom and when, in order to understand what targets my DD focus, etc.
Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity. omg, one more guy ho cry that "DPS meters bring toxic in game".... Dps\Hps meters give you much more power to scale your build so its MUST be 1000000% in mmo. Another question is whether the information from these meters would be public or not. In terms of the head of Intrepid Studios being a fan of Lineage2 (there is no game more toxic than Lineage. And let's close the subject of toxicity I beg you, in mmo should not play people who can be offended if they are told that they are trash.) i'm sure that most things in the game associated with the character will be conditionally non-public as well as in Lineage, so the report / statistic of the battle will probably not be public. For me personally, as I have written many times in this thread. Battle report tools must be in mmo game, without them the life of a leader of the group/clan/raid becomes hell, as it is very difficult to understand in more detail where and who makes mistakes, or does not perform their task at all, the most basic tool dps / hps meter can help improve the build, and in case someone in the group clearly become ballast, help him sort out this problem You don't need a dps meter to improve your build game has a combat log. It should be clear if someone is not doing anything constantly, and if someone is not preforming to your liking its simply because you want to kick them and don't believe they can improve on their own without you yelling at them. Only reason you want a dps meter is so you can stat pad for no reason in a game that isnt designed for a dps meter.
ggFable wrote: » Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity. omg, one more guy ho cry that "DPS meters bring toxic in game".... Dps\Hps meters give you much more power to scale your build so its MUST be 1000000% in mmo. Another question is whether the information from these meters would be public or not. In terms of the head of Intrepid Studios being a fan of Lineage2 (there is no game more toxic than Lineage. And let's close the subject of toxicity I beg you, in mmo should not play people who can be offended if they are told that they are trash.) i'm sure that most things in the game associated with the character will be conditionally non-public as well as in Lineage, so the report / statistic of the battle will probably not be public. For me personally, as I have written many times in this thread. Battle report tools must be in mmo game, without them the life of a leader of the group/clan/raid becomes hell, as it is very difficult to understand in more detail where and who makes mistakes, or does not perform their task at all, the most basic tool dps / hps meter can help improve the build, and in case someone in the group clearly become ballast, help him sort out this problem
Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Asmongold literarily shows this content on stream.... He literally doesn't. Again, if this is what you think top end PvE in an MMORPG is, you simply do not know what top end content in an MMORPG is. I'm not sure how I can be more clear on this matter.
ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity. omg, one more guy ho cry that "DPS meters bring toxic in game".... Dps\Hps meters give you much more power to scale your build so its MUST be 1000000% in mmo. Another question is whether the information from these meters would be public or not. In terms of the head of Intrepid Studios being a fan of Lineage2 (there is no game more toxic than Lineage. And let's close the subject of toxicity I beg you, in mmo should not play people who can be offended if they are told that they are trash.) i'm sure that most things in the game associated with the character will be conditionally non-public as well as in Lineage, so the report / statistic of the battle will probably not be public. For me personally, as I have written many times in this thread. Battle report tools must be in mmo game, without them the life of a leader of the group/clan/raid becomes hell, as it is very difficult to understand in more detail where and who makes mistakes, or does not perform their task at all, the most basic tool dps / hps meter can help improve the build, and in case someone in the group clearly become ballast, help him sort out this problem You don't need a dps meter to improve your build game has a combat log. It should be clear if someone is not doing anything constantly, and if someone is not preforming to your liking its simply because you want to kick them and don't believe they can improve on their own without you yelling at them. Only reason you want a dps meter is so you can stat pad for no reason in a game that isnt designed for a dps meter. I don't understand your term "game that isnt designed for a dps meter", what is this bullshit? the game can't be made for the dps meter... do you even understand what a "metric" is? Metrics in any form can be applied to any numerical source (and not only numerical, but we are talking about them at the moment). So what the hell are you talking about? Often dps/hps meters are just based on the combat log, so if there is a combat log it is very easy to make a simple dps meter. As for the fact that dps counters are often used to show off to others, that has its place, and that is often what is used, but if one is truly better than others and trying harder than others, then why not, I personally don't care. Personally for me it is important that the game would have an api, or advanced combat log, for example WoW (https://www.warcraftlogs.com), go and see if you never faced with what should look like an analysis of combat, and I need it in order to improve my team, who heals whom, to see who hits whom and when, in order to understand what targets my DD focus, etc. AoC is not world of warcraft, game is not based on instanced dungeons it is open world. You can use combat log and test your damage there and find out what you have that is effective or not. You might not care but it just shows how pointless DPs meters are, and makes people care more about numbers than understanding what is actually going on. You literarily do not need it nor is it a necessity, the combat log will do that plenty for you in viewing your damage. No one wants you viewing their logs, it is not important you literarily just want that to flex when half of it is pointless be it rng, people stacking, or people just ignoring mechanics to push numbers while their team dies. I'd really temper what u expect out of a PvX mmorpg compared to WoW that is focused on instanced dungeons where you can't be pvped in... Man, WoW have pvp arenas and bgs, i personaly last time played wow play at arena and i need thear dps meter (details addon), bc i need to see рow much damage each of my skills did, and from what sources and how much damage I received. for exemple And stop saying that no one needs it. Just because you don't need it doesn't mean others don't need it. And your argument that there is no temporary dungeons, bullshit, it does not matter where you get the report in the open world or in a temporary dungeon, you get the report after the last battle, even if you fought a bug near the city
Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity. omg, one more guy ho cry that "DPS meters bring toxic in game".... Dps\Hps meters give you much more power to scale your build so its MUST be 1000000% in mmo. Another question is whether the information from these meters would be public or not. In terms of the head of Intrepid Studios being a fan of Lineage2 (there is no game more toxic than Lineage. And let's close the subject of toxicity I beg you, in mmo should not play people who can be offended if they are told that they are trash.) i'm sure that most things in the game associated with the character will be conditionally non-public as well as in Lineage, so the report / statistic of the battle will probably not be public. For me personally, as I have written many times in this thread. Battle report tools must be in mmo game, without them the life of a leader of the group/clan/raid becomes hell, as it is very difficult to understand in more detail where and who makes mistakes, or does not perform their task at all, the most basic tool dps / hps meter can help improve the build, and in case someone in the group clearly become ballast, help him sort out this problem You don't need a dps meter to improve your build game has a combat log. It should be clear if someone is not doing anything constantly, and if someone is not preforming to your liking its simply because you want to kick them and don't believe they can improve on their own without you yelling at them. Only reason you want a dps meter is so you can stat pad for no reason in a game that isnt designed for a dps meter. I don't understand your term "game that isnt designed for a dps meter", what is this bullshit? the game can't be made for the dps meter... do you even understand what a "metric" is? Metrics in any form can be applied to any numerical source (and not only numerical, but we are talking about them at the moment). So what the hell are you talking about? Often dps/hps meters are just based on the combat log, so if there is a combat log it is very easy to make a simple dps meter. As for the fact that dps counters are often used to show off to others, that has its place, and that is often what is used, but if one is truly better than others and trying harder than others, then why not, I personally don't care. Personally for me it is important that the game would have an api, or advanced combat log, for example WoW (https://www.warcraftlogs.com), go and see if you never faced with what should look like an analysis of combat, and I need it in order to improve my team, who heals whom, to see who hits whom and when, in order to understand what targets my DD focus, etc. AoC is not world of warcraft, game is not based on instanced dungeons it is open world. You can use combat log and test your damage there and find out what you have that is effective or not. You might not care but it just shows how pointless DPs meters are, and makes people care more about numbers than understanding what is actually going on. You literarily do not need it nor is it a necessity, the combat log will do that plenty for you in viewing your damage. No one wants you viewing their logs, it is not important you literarily just want that to flex when half of it is pointless be it rng, people stacking, or people just ignoring mechanics to push numbers while their team dies. I'd really temper what u expect out of a PvX mmorpg compared to WoW that is focused on instanced dungeons where you can't be pvped in... Man, WoW have pvp arenas and bgs, i personaly last time played wow play at arena and i need thear dps meter (details addon), bc i need to see рow much damage each of my skills did, and from what sources and how much damage I received. for exemple And stop saying that no one needs it. Just because you don't need it doesn't mean others don't need it. And your argument that there is no temporary dungeons, bullshit, it does not matter where you get the report in the open world or in a temporary dungeon, you get the report after the last battle, even if you fought a bug near the city Nothing should be connected as far as it should go only thing that you should be viewing things is with your combat log. Which means no scanning other players, nor uploading things to websites to view players as well and making that easier. If you want to know your damage, spend time being social talking to people and working on your build. You will get the same results in understanding your damage with some effort. Those charts mean nothing for the very reason people will min max for themselves than actually worry about what they need to do with the content at hand to be successful. You could be doing 30% less damage and clearing content faster you don't need a dps meter to simply know your damage. Not to mention again like i stated before the toxic elements that come with it and people thinking the DPS is more important than clearly content correctly, or simply being toxic to others.
ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » ggFable wrote: » Heartbeat wrote: » DPS meters shouldn't exist as AoC seems like it'll harbor the ability for players to really personalize their build for their playstyle that they want, and with something like a DPS meter there would eventually be a meta and the toxicity would start flooding in. DPS meters always harbor toxicity. omg, one more guy ho cry that "DPS meters bring toxic in game".... Dps\Hps meters give you much more power to scale your build so its MUST be 1000000% in mmo. Another question is whether the information from these meters would be public or not. In terms of the head of Intrepid Studios being a fan of Lineage2 (there is no game more toxic than Lineage. And let's close the subject of toxicity I beg you, in mmo should not play people who can be offended if they are told that they are trash.) i'm sure that most things in the game associated with the character will be conditionally non-public as well as in Lineage, so the report / statistic of the battle will probably not be public. For me personally, as I have written many times in this thread. Battle report tools must be in mmo game, without them the life of a leader of the group/clan/raid becomes hell, as it is very difficult to understand in more detail where and who makes mistakes, or does not perform their task at all, the most basic tool dps / hps meter can help improve the build, and in case someone in the group clearly become ballast, help him sort out this problem You don't need a dps meter to improve your build game has a combat log. It should be clear if someone is not doing anything constantly, and if someone is not preforming to your liking its simply because you want to kick them and don't believe they can improve on their own without you yelling at them. Only reason you want a dps meter is so you can stat pad for no reason in a game that isnt designed for a dps meter. I don't understand your term "game that isnt designed for a dps meter", what is this bullshit? the game can't be made for the dps meter... do you even understand what a "metric" is? Metrics in any form can be applied to any numerical source (and not only numerical, but we are talking about them at the moment). So what the hell are you talking about? Often dps/hps meters are just based on the combat log, so if there is a combat log it is very easy to make a simple dps meter. As for the fact that dps counters are often used to show off to others, that has its place, and that is often what is used, but if one is truly better than others and trying harder than others, then why not, I personally don't care. Personally for me it is important that the game would have an api, or advanced combat log, for example WoW (https://www.warcraftlogs.com), go and see if you never faced with what should look like an analysis of combat, and I need it in order to improve my team, who heals whom, to see who hits whom and when, in order to understand what targets my DD focus, etc. AoC is not world of warcraft, game is not based on instanced dungeons it is open world. You can use combat log and test your damage there and find out what you have that is effective or not. You might not care but it just shows how pointless DPs meters are, and makes people care more about numbers than understanding what is actually going on. You literarily do not need it nor is it a necessity, the combat log will do that plenty for you in viewing your damage. No one wants you viewing their logs, it is not important you literarily just want that to flex when half of it is pointless be it rng, people stacking, or people just ignoring mechanics to push numbers while their team dies. I'd really temper what u expect out of a PvX mmorpg compared to WoW that is focused on instanced dungeons where you can't be pvped in... Man, WoW have pvp arenas and bgs, i personaly last time played wow play at arena and i need thear dps meter (details addon), bc i need to see рow much damage each of my skills did, and from what sources and how much damage I received. for exemple And stop saying that no one needs it. Just because you don't need it doesn't mean others don't need it. And your argument that there is no temporary dungeons, bullshit, it does not matter where you get the report in the open world or in a temporary dungeon, you get the report after the last battle, even if you fought a bug near the city Nothing should be connected as far as it should go only thing that you should be viewing things is with your combat log. Which means no scanning other players, nor uploading things to websites to view players as well and making that easier. If you want to know your damage, spend time being social talking to people and working on your build. You will get the same results in understanding your damage with some effort. Those charts mean nothing for the very reason people will min max for themselves than actually worry about what they need to do with the content at hand to be successful. You could be doing 30% less damage and clearing content faster you don't need a dps meter to simply know your damage. Not to mention again like i stated before the toxic elements that come with it and people thinking the DPS is more important than clearly content correctly, or simply being toxic to others. Ok, I think we no longer need to have a dialogue with each other, because I see that you do not really know what you are talking about, and have too little experience in mmo and/or played at too low a level (this is my subjective opinion, I do not know you but that's how I see it)."Nothing should be connected as far as it should go only thing that you should be viewing things is with your combat log. Which means no scanning other players, nor uploading things to websites to view players as well and making that easier." What makes you think it SHOULD be like that? That's not for you to decide. Just because you feel like it doesn't mean it has to be.
Mag7spy wrote: » This is why I'm saying I'm getting flash backs from the other thread, you are removing logic from post and trying to change the narrative.
Noaani wrote: » You're the one posting that you understand top end PvE because you have watched a streamer that streams mid tier PvE at best.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is why I'm saying I'm getting flash backs from the other thread, you are removing logic from post and trying to change the narrative. I'm the one removing logic and trying to change the narrative? You're the one posting that you understand top end PvE because you have watched a streamer that streams mid tier PvE at best. That makes you either an idiot or dishonest (going with dishonest, but not entirely sure), and is absolutely an attempt to alter not just the narrative, but the paradigm of what top end content is. You need to stop and realize that everything you think you know about PvE in MMO's is actually taking place one level below what you thought. There is an entire other level above all of what you know (all of what you have seen others participate in) that you just straight up aren't even aware of existing. It's kind of like if you were talking about top end PvP as being castle sieges, but in was talking about it as being Runescapes wilderness, but thinking that was the pinnacle of MMO PvP because insaw it on a stream.
Aerlana wrote: » Noaani wrote: » You're the one posting that you understand top end PvE because you have watched a streamer that streams mid tier PvE at best. Mid Tier of a PvE lot of people are watching the world first race when it began to be streamed 4 years ago (began with legion) . . . And on a game where you literally spam the tries until you win the fight (they do anything else to get stuff in heroic mod mostly before... going back to the progress). Which is the most played high end PvE (WoW/FFXIV being this way, so does LA with abrelshud) But not the kind of high end we will have on ashes. (maybe i mistake but... no "spam try" avaible for ashes) making it even more sad to speak "high end PvE" based on what was shown on asmongold stream... (and watching stream does not relate the full reality of what imply to do high end. )
