Azherae wrote: » Goalid wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem. If one instance of resource source gives you 30 items and they all sell as "one" item for one gold - why in the living hell would you have it as 30 items? Especially if all the recipes treat those 30 items as one. It doesn't have to be listed as 30 items, you could list it as 5 iron ore for 1 gold or 500 iron ore for 1 gold, just like you can do in a trade. You're saying there's a problem with there being such a large number of some item, that the item is worth less than 1 gold on a market. That's really not a problem in the real world, and I can only see it as a problem with a poor auction house in a MMO. What do I do when the standard price for 30 Iron Ore is 1 Gold and I have 27?
Goalid wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem. If one instance of resource source gives you 30 items and they all sell as "one" item for one gold - why in the living hell would you have it as 30 items? Especially if all the recipes treat those 30 items as one. It doesn't have to be listed as 30 items, you could list it as 5 iron ore for 1 gold or 500 iron ore for 1 gold, just like you can do in a trade. You're saying there's a problem with there being such a large number of some item, that the item is worth less than 1 gold on a market. That's really not a problem in the real world, and I can only see it as a problem with a poor auction house in a MMO.
NiKr wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem. If one instance of resource source gives you 30 items and they all sell as "one" item for one gold - why in the living hell would you have it as 30 items? Especially if all the recipes treat those 30 items as one.
Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem.
Goalid wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Goalid wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem. If one instance of resource source gives you 30 items and they all sell as "one" item for one gold - why in the living hell would you have it as 30 items? Especially if all the recipes treat those 30 items as one. It doesn't have to be listed as 30 items, you could list it as 5 iron ore for 1 gold or 500 iron ore for 1 gold, just like you can do in a trade. You're saying there's a problem with there being such a large number of some item, that the item is worth less than 1 gold on a market. That's really not a problem in the real world, and I can only see it as a problem with a poor auction house in a MMO. What do I do when the standard price for 30 Iron Ore is 1 Gold and I have 27? Wait until you have 30 iron ore or just trash it. We're both considering a single gold to be the equivalent of a penny in real life right? If you're worried about inventory space, you just trash it because it's worth less than a penny.
Goalid wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » A key to a successful economy tbh is item decay when it come to crafting economy. As an example ill use new world and harvesting tools. after about the first month these items were pointless to craft simply cause every player only ever needs 1 of them. so there was good profit if u rushed and was first one to hit the next tier up since everyone wanted upgraded tools, now once everyone got those tool there 0 market for tools every again. Same thing with armor and weapon, once u get the best item there you never ever have to replace it so there no longer market for said crafted items once everyone hits that point. Armor was harder to get BIS compared to tools though due to hated RNG. So ashes of creation needs item decay where you have to replace your gear in some way or form so there a constant supply and demand for items. Albion online probaly does this the best in mainstream economy since dieing in PvP has 25% chance to trash an item which removes those items from the market however i think we need to do better here since only so much item sink from pvp deaths can occur compared to how much you can craft the items. The issue here is there no effect on PvE players since aslong as u dont die in red/black zones (pvp zones) this never occurs A game called mabinogi i think may be the key here with economy there system is gear has x durability for this example we will use 100 max dura. So every time u repaired a single point of durability there was a chance for the repair to fail and instead of regaining that durability it will be removed the the max durability amount, i beleive the % was around 95% success so every point of dura repaired had a 5% chance to fail and lower max dura so effectivly roughtly every 20 dura repaired will result in 1 max dura reduction which can never be regained. I feel this system would be ideal for Ashes of creation since it also allows for quite a bit of customisation with crafting professions and NPC for example NPC might get a 80% success rate however going to a player (Or player crafted NPC that is non transferable that can be placed on freehold that offers the same repair chance as the player just so they can be out doing things and people can come get repairs from the freehold) could increase this up to 95% (Never 100% though). After gear max dura drops to like 25% of it max it become scrap and no longer any good this is more to let players know they should be replacing their gear soon so they get ample warning and shouldnt break in the field on them. This is the same system used in Star Wars Galaxies, it's a tried and true system that the average person hears and screeches about because "I'm losing progression?!" but in reality is the best way I've seen to make it so crafters stay relevant.
Veeshan wrote: » A key to a successful economy tbh is item decay when it come to crafting economy. As an example ill use new world and harvesting tools. after about the first month these items were pointless to craft simply cause every player only ever needs 1 of them. so there was good profit if u rushed and was first one to hit the next tier up since everyone wanted upgraded tools, now once everyone got those tool there 0 market for tools every again. Same thing with armor and weapon, once u get the best item there you never ever have to replace it so there no longer market for said crafted items once everyone hits that point. Armor was harder to get BIS compared to tools though due to hated RNG. So ashes of creation needs item decay where you have to replace your gear in some way or form so there a constant supply and demand for items. Albion online probaly does this the best in mainstream economy since dieing in PvP has 25% chance to trash an item which removes those items from the market however i think we need to do better here since only so much item sink from pvp deaths can occur compared to how much you can craft the items. The issue here is there no effect on PvE players since aslong as u dont die in red/black zones (pvp zones) this never occurs A game called mabinogi i think may be the key here with economy there system is gear has x durability for this example we will use 100 max dura. So every time u repaired a single point of durability there was a chance for the repair to fail and instead of regaining that durability it will be removed the the max durability amount, i beleive the % was around 95% success so every point of dura repaired had a 5% chance to fail and lower max dura so effectivly roughtly every 20 dura repaired will result in 1 max dura reduction which can never be regained. I feel this system would be ideal for Ashes of creation since it also allows for quite a bit of customisation with crafting professions and NPC for example NPC might get a 80% success rate however going to a player (Or player crafted NPC that is non transferable that can be placed on freehold that offers the same repair chance as the player just so they can be out doing things and people can come get repairs from the freehold) could increase this up to 95% (Never 100% though). After gear max dura drops to like 25% of it max it become scrap and no longer any good this is more to let players know they should be replacing their gear soon so they get ample warning and shouldnt break in the field on them.
Azherae wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Goalid wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem. If one instance of resource source gives you 30 items and they all sell as "one" item for one gold - why in the living hell would you have it as 30 items? Especially if all the recipes treat those 30 items as one. It doesn't have to be listed as 30 items, you could list it as 5 iron ore for 1 gold or 500 iron ore for 1 gold, just like you can do in a trade. You're saying there's a problem with there being such a large number of some item, that the item is worth less than 1 gold on a market. That's really not a problem in the real world, and I can only see it as a problem with a poor auction house in a MMO. What do I do when the standard price for 30 Iron Ore is 1 Gold and I have 27? Wait until you have 30 iron ore or just trash it. We're both considering a single gold to be the equivalent of a penny in real life right? If you're worried about inventory space, you just trash it because it's worth less than a penny. Thank you for the data as always.
Veeshan wrote: » A key to a successful economy tbh is item decay when it come to crafting economy. Albion online probaly does this the best in mainstream economy since dieing in PvP has 25% chance to trash an item which removes those items from the market however i think we need to do better here since only so much item sink from pvp deaths can occur compared to how much you can craft the items. The issue here is there no effect on PvE players since aslong as u dont die in red/black zones (pvp zones) this never occurs
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » @Depraved Wait how runes are pointless and sigils for weapons? these things matter a lot yet I can get full set of runes from 1 hour playing farming. This is reason why gw2 sucks and all other games, in vanilla wow one enchant costs around 30min-1h of your farming, 1 flask costs 1h of farming and you need 2 for raid at beginning without gear, 1 health potion costs around 2-5g and you farm 50-120g per hour, in New World 1 health potion costs 2g and you farm 5k per hour on some lower ilvl farm - rawhides, you can farm a lot more in elite areas solo farming orchalicum ores with full luck gear/trophies. Consider that you will use at least 5 potions each battleground that lasts 20min that is around 10g - in vanilla. Idk if you are following me or anyone else, but in every mmo economy is worthless, this is a fact and I played it, and I know how vanilla economy is since I played it and leveled multiple times. Every mmo is not even close to that feeling of worthiness of any item. You can also farm in 30lvl zones and get 50g or go to end game zone and get 75g, even if you farmed in 30lvl zones for example free action potions, you would be making good money since every PVPer is stacking these potions for daily PVP (it makes you immune to stuns for 30sec) or you would be making resistance potions to defend you from spell resistance (frost,fire,nature etc..) 4k dmg for 2min - this can be a life savior in raids in many fights, 5 these cost around 40g i think and you need around 5 to finish raid. -so 40g for resist potions, 2 flasks around 200g, health / mana potions around 15g, food (if you are tank then 100g) if you are healer/dps (around 20g), enchants for gear (weapons alone can cost 100g+, other enchants around 30-40g per item - all slots can be enchanted 30gx8 items) etc... there is so much gold spending, not to forget ammo for hunters, the better ammo then from vendors (not mandatory but it gives you slight bonus dmg buff), cloth for first aid (3-4g), this all is per raid, and again you can farm 75g on usual farm that everyone does or you can farm 120g sometimes less 90g in elite areas farm, but there is a lot of PVP going on in these areas. Only if you were mage you could farm 250g per hour, but some pservers ban this kind of farming, even blizzard official Season of Mastery nerfed this farm and it was not doable.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » Compare 2-3g per potion on WoW where you can farm 50-125 g per hour and then compare 2g per potion in New World where you claimed yourself you farmed 15k per hour (I farmed 5k gold at that time because I was farming in 30lvl areas)... This is reason why vanilla WoW has superior economy then New world by far...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFdVeK-gpo Look at buffs that this guy had to farm before raid... Isnt this a beauty in MMO.... to prepare like this... The grind, the adventures..... epic...
Depraved wrote: » VekoCrnogorac wrote: » Compare 2-3g per potion on WoW where you can farm 50-125 g per hour and then compare 2g per potion in New World where you claimed yourself you farmed 15k per hour (I farmed 5k gold at that time because I was farming in 30lvl areas)... This is reason why vanilla WoW has superior economy then New world by far...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFdVeK-gpo Look at buffs that this guy had to farm before raid... Isnt this a beauty in MMO.... to prepare like this... The grind, the adventures..... epic... I also farmed lvl 30 areas, rawhide xD...its just the way I farmed and my spot were better than how every1 else did it T_T. to be more accurate I was getting something like 12k rawhide per proficiency booster potion (hell id fill my bag before the 30 mins of thee potion were over ). anyways to buy consumables, yeah they weren't that expensive...but think about it. good gear costed hundreds of thousands (gold + materials). id need to farm close to 100 hours in the same spot to buy a top gear piece with perfect perks...and you need 10 lol. I don't remember how much I used to farm in wow..but I do remember that back then having 10k meant u were rich...then eventually 10k meant u were poor... also, the consumables farm in to was more tedious than wow. it gets boring after a while...
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » Depraved wrote: » VekoCrnogorac wrote: » Compare 2-3g per potion on WoW where you can farm 50-125 g per hour and then compare 2g per potion in New World where you claimed yourself you farmed 15k per hour (I farmed 5k gold at that time because I was farming in 30lvl areas)... This is reason why vanilla WoW has superior economy then New world by far...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFdVeK-gpo Look at buffs that this guy had to farm before raid... Isnt this a beauty in MMO.... to prepare like this... The grind, the adventures..... epic... I also farmed lvl 30 areas, rawhide xD...its just the way I farmed and my spot were better than how every1 else did it T_T. to be more accurate I was getting something like 12k rawhide per proficiency booster potion (hell id fill my bag before the 30 mins of thee potion were over ). anyways to buy consumables, yeah they weren't that expensive...but think about it. good gear costed hundreds of thousands (gold + materials). id need to farm close to 100 hours in the same spot to buy a top gear piece with perfect perks...and you need 10 lol. I don't remember how much I used to farm in wow..but I do remember that back then having 10k meant u were rich...then eventually 10k meant u were poor... also, the consumables farm in to was more tedious than wow. it gets boring after a while... \ I am only speaking for consumables, they are useless in New World, and if you have good economy consumable-wise then you have sustainable economy. In WoW lionhelm for warriors could cost around 5k gold and thats in beginning of phase 1 where you could farm 50g/h. Point is that WoW did not have good professions to craft gear, only good consumables. Idea of WoW is to craft gear to prepare for raid, not to get BiS items, that's why WoW team will never make gearing good from professions, they even destroyed consumables economy in retail WoW - newer wow, because it is mostly useless, it gives 1% player power and it used to give 20-30% player power.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » I am only wishing for gold to matter, what you guys are arguing with me is beyond my understanding. Everyone should aim for what I am aiming, simply gold to matter.
Depraved wrote: » VekoCrnogorac wrote: » I am only wishing for gold to matter, what you guys are arguing with me is beyond my understanding. Everyone should aim for what I am aiming, simply gold to matter. you can make gold matter without forcing players to farm 20 hours a week every week to do 4 hours of content. there are multiple solutions for the same problem, you are focusing on just 1.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » if devs don't design this like how I want and think RPG should be, I would not play this game simply because of economy. I am better of playing League of Legends to sink my time then playing fake MMORPG that does not have important economy. No matter how good systems are or graphics or combat, everything won't make sense if economy is modern WoW 2.0.
