Lust69 wrote: » I agree there should be more immersion, a great storyline and better quests other than kill 10 wolves and go to John the cook. But I would really hate it if in main quest I didn’t know which npc to go to next and spent 20 minutes looking for an npc with little information. I can’t stand being lost for to long it stops being fun. One way to address this is to have a great story that your actually enjoying so you want to read the dialog. Say for example FF7 storyline. We could have the main quest easy to complete each time with a interesting task and a great story and I suppose we could have more difficult side quests so you have the option of either an easy or hard quest line or something in between. This doesn’t mean the actual quest needs to be easy just knowing what you have to do next is the easy part. I hope this makes sense.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » Lust69 wrote: » I agree there should be more immersion, a great storyline and better quests other than kill 10 wolves and go to John the cook. But I would really hate it if in main quest I didn’t know which npc to go to next and spent 20 minutes looking for an npc with little information. I can’t stand being lost for to long it stops being fun. One way to address this is to have a great story that your actually enjoying so you want to read the dialog. Say for example FF7 storyline. We could have the main quest easy to complete each time with a interesting task and a great story and I suppose we could have more difficult side quests so you have the option of either an easy or hard quest line or something in between. This doesn’t mean the actual quest needs to be easy just knowing what you have to do next is the easy part. I hope this makes sense. No no, main quest should have pointers and full info about how to do it, even pointers on map. But these side quests should not have npc pointers at all and should be doable without too much braining effort. Depending how map is made I am not sure about that, for example in Vanilla WoW map was quite small for each zone, therefore quest would say to you go north-east in this and this camp (name) and kill x10 harpies, then you would roam this area until you find this camp, when you find it it will be written on map this and that name of camp and you know you have to go there. This is how skyrim does side quests, they even can have map pointers but not NPC quest pointers above their heads, just to make players roam around city exploring every npc and looking at dialog, these npcs should always have something to say and to point out lore of that city in every possible expression. I already mentioned in Skyrim if you get to city far away from civilization all the people would seem bored and they would tell you that, it gives this idea of this city being boring and having to do repetitive tasks every day, it gives vibe of city and it feels different then having npcs without dialog or similar approach where npcs dont talk about anything lore wise.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » Depraved wrote: » VekoCrnogorac wrote: » @Vaknar One simple solution to those speed-runners would be side quests similar to Skyrim, without quest pointers above npc's head. Make sure that quest is hidden behind some dialog and make sure to have multiple dialog options out there, considering that you design quest hidden behind one of 3-4 dialog. That will teach them a lesson how to play RPGs, its not all about end game content, they should learn to enjoy process or look even dumber if they go speed running through dialog. Main story should have pointers and devs should make sure that it does not level you to end, we need lore from side quests and lore that is important, not just on main quest. Maybe have side lore from NPCs with multiple quest chains. Also if you click on dialog 1 and there is a hidden quest behind dialog 1 on one npc, make sure it is not behind first dialog always, but maybe put quest on last or close to last dialog option from dialog 1. This is one way of making fix on community, other way would be combat, similar to vanilla wow, where you had to do it patiently, so you don't die vs mob. No AOE pulls and no way to rush even 1v1 combat because you are not able to. Not everyone likes slow tab target combat, I understand, so devs should design combat similar to AoC, but I just hope to see 1v1 pulls, if you pull 2 mobs you could die easily, that would be my aim for combat, doesnt need to be extra slow, just cautious. Next would be: Don't allow every quest to be soloable, make social group quests, even on main story. No dungeon finders like in wow where you sit in que and instantly teleport to dungeon, make it so it is like a small adventure to go into dungeon, no summons as well. Before dungeon make sure you put elite mobs, so group has to wait for everyone and clear it to enter dungeon, same like Vanilla WoW. PvP in open world, no more theme-park design MMOs should market them self as MMORPG, we need to put our voice in internet and be heard, divide theme-park (retail WoW) and RPG (classic WoW), gacha games are more similar to theme-park mmos then pure RPG mmos like AoC. Core reason is to divide genre more, to keep tradition of RPG games, or else we won't be able to see RPG MMOs anymore, we will see it rarely, in fact, when was last time that you saw something as big as AoC? Everyone is making MMOs like retail WOW or guild wars 2, those smaller studios do not want to make pure RPG because no one will play it. It has to have some kind of sandbox design as core element for it to work as a traditional RPG, all those ideas are more like sandbox because sandbox is hidden in those smaller ''harder'' things, sandbox are not convenience as theme park is. why do you want to force players to play how you want? if they don't wanna read the dialogs, don't force them. there is nothing wrong with trying to level as fast as you can. also, removing the indicators above npc head to prevent "speed runners" to progress fast is silly. you can just simply learn the quests during alpha or beta, and there will be guides on what quests to take and which one to ignore /facepalm also, what is wrong with aoe combat? its more fun and riskier than killing mobs one by one. This will create tighter community and everyone will feel accepted. MMOs strive on community, if they go semi sandbox semi theme park, what will happen is WoW 2 scenario, where people srgue with each other and where people dont like game as they would. What this all means is that we as a community should do our duty to separate theme park and traditional rpgs, then everyone gets to play what they want to play,no more crossing over and fake marketing happening. New era of MMOs will begin when that happens.
Depraved wrote: » VekoCrnogorac wrote: » @Vaknar One simple solution to those speed-runners would be side quests similar to Skyrim, without quest pointers above npc's head. Make sure that quest is hidden behind some dialog and make sure to have multiple dialog options out there, considering that you design quest hidden behind one of 3-4 dialog. That will teach them a lesson how to play RPGs, its not all about end game content, they should learn to enjoy process or look even dumber if they go speed running through dialog. Main story should have pointers and devs should make sure that it does not level you to end, we need lore from side quests and lore that is important, not just on main quest. Maybe have side lore from NPCs with multiple quest chains. Also if you click on dialog 1 and there is a hidden quest behind dialog 1 on one npc, make sure it is not behind first dialog always, but maybe put quest on last or close to last dialog option from dialog 1. This is one way of making fix on community, other way would be combat, similar to vanilla wow, where you had to do it patiently, so you don't die vs mob. No AOE pulls and no way to rush even 1v1 combat because you are not able to. Not everyone likes slow tab target combat, I understand, so devs should design combat similar to AoC, but I just hope to see 1v1 pulls, if you pull 2 mobs you could die easily, that would be my aim for combat, doesnt need to be extra slow, just cautious. Next would be: Don't allow every quest to be soloable, make social group quests, even on main story. No dungeon finders like in wow where you sit in que and instantly teleport to dungeon, make it so it is like a small adventure to go into dungeon, no summons as well. Before dungeon make sure you put elite mobs, so group has to wait for everyone and clear it to enter dungeon, same like Vanilla WoW. PvP in open world, no more theme-park design MMOs should market them self as MMORPG, we need to put our voice in internet and be heard, divide theme-park (retail WoW) and RPG (classic WoW), gacha games are more similar to theme-park mmos then pure RPG mmos like AoC. Core reason is to divide genre more, to keep tradition of RPG games, or else we won't be able to see RPG MMOs anymore, we will see it rarely, in fact, when was last time that you saw something as big as AoC? Everyone is making MMOs like retail WOW or guild wars 2, those smaller studios do not want to make pure RPG because no one will play it. It has to have some kind of sandbox design as core element for it to work as a traditional RPG, all those ideas are more like sandbox because sandbox is hidden in those smaller ''harder'' things, sandbox are not convenience as theme park is. why do you want to force players to play how you want? if they don't wanna read the dialogs, don't force them. there is nothing wrong with trying to level as fast as you can. also, removing the indicators above npc head to prevent "speed runners" to progress fast is silly. you can just simply learn the quests during alpha or beta, and there will be guides on what quests to take and which one to ignore /facepalm also, what is wrong with aoe combat? its more fun and riskier than killing mobs one by one.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » @Vaknar One simple solution to those speed-runners would be side quests similar to Skyrim, without quest pointers above npc's head. Make sure that quest is hidden behind some dialog and make sure to have multiple dialog options out there, considering that you design quest hidden behind one of 3-4 dialog. That will teach them a lesson how to play RPGs, its not all about end game content, they should learn to enjoy process or look even dumber if they go speed running through dialog. Main story should have pointers and devs should make sure that it does not level you to end, we need lore from side quests and lore that is important, not just on main quest. Maybe have side lore from NPCs with multiple quest chains. Also if you click on dialog 1 and there is a hidden quest behind dialog 1 on one npc, make sure it is not behind first dialog always, but maybe put quest on last or close to last dialog option from dialog 1. This is one way of making fix on community, other way would be combat, similar to vanilla wow, where you had to do it patiently, so you don't die vs mob. No AOE pulls and no way to rush even 1v1 combat because you are not able to. Not everyone likes slow tab target combat, I understand, so devs should design combat similar to AoC, but I just hope to see 1v1 pulls, if you pull 2 mobs you could die easily, that would be my aim for combat, doesnt need to be extra slow, just cautious. Next would be: Don't allow every quest to be soloable, make social group quests, even on main story. No dungeon finders like in wow where you sit in que and instantly teleport to dungeon, make it so it is like a small adventure to go into dungeon, no summons as well. Before dungeon make sure you put elite mobs, so group has to wait for everyone and clear it to enter dungeon, same like Vanilla WoW. PvP in open world, no more theme-park design MMOs should market them self as MMORPG, we need to put our voice in internet and be heard, divide theme-park (retail WoW) and RPG (classic WoW), gacha games are more similar to theme-park mmos then pure RPG mmos like AoC. Core reason is to divide genre more, to keep tradition of RPG games, or else we won't be able to see RPG MMOs anymore, we will see it rarely, in fact, when was last time that you saw something as big as AoC? Everyone is making MMOs like retail WOW or guild wars 2, those smaller studios do not want to make pure RPG because no one will play it. It has to have some kind of sandbox design as core element for it to work as a traditional RPG, all those ideas are more like sandbox because sandbox is hidden in those smaller ''harder'' things, sandbox are not convenience as theme park is.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » What this all means is that we as a community should do our duty to separate theme park and traditional rpgs, then everyone gets to play what they want to play,no more crossing over and fake marketing happening. New era of MMOs will begin when that happens.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » I am simply speaking from critic of pure reason, word pure is what many of you do not understand because you do not have pure reason... Why would you speed-run in a RPG that is story driven game??? makes no sense to a reasonable guy. Again, reason can vary from person to person, some will say I do not harm anyone, yet they will do dumb stuff, others will understand me, but again, I think you are all missing the point.
CROW3 wrote: » So help me understand… your thesis is that division is the key to building community? 🧐
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » listen to audiobook critique of pure reason immanuel kant, it might solve you what pure reason is. Basically pure reason means if you are on right path, truly right path, even politically you are able to lie about your ''moves'', no one has to know what you are doing, even if you are crossing someone else, if that path is truly one with grace.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » You have to lie in order to be politician. There are too many snakes to be trusted easily. You dont understand politics if you think truth is goal to sucess of nation.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » haha, I see you don't understand me... What if you had a chance to make world peaceful and compassionate. Would you lie to your enemies?
