Full Loot PvP Areas.

Whilst perusing the world map and looking over the islands of Sujoma, Draakathbohr and Peligora, I couldn't help but think that AoC might benefit from having some full loot PvP areas. What we have seen of the corruption system is nice (I also think it might be a good idea to have some completely safe areas like the actual Node settlements) but I have a concern that there won't be enough "gear churn" for gathering and crafting to always be in significant demand across the different tiers of gear.

If for example, you had one or more of those islands as a full loot zone, it could be completely avoided by people not interested in that type of gameplay, but for those who are interested in "Risk vs Reward" you would provide a space for people to gear up, ship out and then fight on a full loot island. It would create a continuous demand for gear of all different tiers as many may only want to equip lower-end cheaper gear to explore the island as if they die they won't lose too much.

It would create demand at the auction houses for people wanting/needing to replace sets they lose.

Currently, you can only lose gatherables upon death from your personal inventory (as well as suffer a durability loss which can be repaired for a silver sink) You can lose stuff that is loaded onto a caravan and a ship but where/when will you ever need to craft/replace a piece of gear once you have one? Perhaps there could be a trash rate applied to gear that when knocked down so that there is a chance a piece of gear you are wearing or weapon you are using trashes and needs to be replaced.

If a server is around 8000 people, where will the demand for sets come from after 8000 of a particular one has been crafted?

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WHIT3ROS3

Falkath wrote: »

I wonder if you know the differences between MMORPGS and survival games ? I suggest you look it up.
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EvE Online and Albion Online have singular mega servers that are 20 to 30 x the population of a single proposed AoC server. They are full-loot MMORPGs. Over a quarter of a million unique accounts engaged in full loot activities in Albion in a single month of this year. Both of these games have incredibly successful in-game player-run economies. (They are not perfect but there is clearly things to be learned from both of these games)

I do not want to turn AoC into a full loot PvP game, I do think that it might be beneficial for the game to offer a small area in a huge 1200km world for people who do like to engage in full loot PvP to go. Seems like a win-win to me. It offers a space for people who are sweaty PvPers and also protects the majority of the game from constant requests for that type of system.

Seems like a majority of the resistance to this suggestion is "Nobody would go" which seems absurd to me. just on a purely immersion/exploration level. There is an island, that is so dangerous and crazy that if you get dropped you lose everything you have on you, but you might be able to find some special artifacts that allow you to craft an awesome PvP-focused set.

You could also have the other newly added island as an exclusively PvE island. Where players cannot attack each other at all. Filled with super intense mobs that would potentially allow you to find artifacts that could be used in the creation of cool PvE-focused gear.

Arya_Yeshe

^

There's a guy saying truths carebears can't even grasp and guess what: there's carebears there, sometimes they cry a bit but they still play it

Dolyem

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

This isn't really about PvP or PvE, it's about how to maintain demand for materials and goods for gatherers and crafters.

Resources sinks for repairs, resources sinks for node progression/maintenance, negative crafting outcomes for over-enhancing late game items, temporary legendary items that recirculate after a time, items that aren't maintained could become permanently destroyed after so many breaks due to durability hitting zero.

Gear shouldn't even be the focus of the problem you're concerned with. Resources are the main concern as far as inflation goes. The strongest items are being limited already, so don't worry too much about people having late game gear.

Noaani

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Falkath wrote: »

I wonder if you know the differences between MMORPGS and survival games ? I suggest you look it up.
.

EvE Online and Albion Online have singular mega servers that are 20 to 30 x the population of a single proposed AoC server. They are full-loot MMORPGs.

Indeed they are, and the games each have access to loot to match.

If you are going to be a full loot game, or a game with gear destruction, this has to be taken in to account from day 1. Your entire game needs to be tuned for it. If this is done, then the whole game can be full loot and everything will be fine. Your game will be niche (measured in fractions of millions of players, rather than millions of players), but it will be fine.

If you have an area that is full loot in a game that otherwise isnt, but dont give players any other reason to go there, this will also be fine.

On the other hand, if you have a game where the design isnt based on full loot or on gear destruction, and you then add that in to an area and require players go there, things will not be fine.

Personally, I was wanting Ashes to have gear destruction. If it had this, an area of the game with full loot would be absolutely fine.

Myosotys

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Whilst perusing the world map and looking over the islands of Sujoma, Draakathbohr and Peligora, I couldn't help but think that AoC might benefit from having some full loot PvP areas. What we have seen of the corruption system is nice (I also think it might be a good idea to have some completely safe areas like the actual Node settlements) but I have a concern that there won't be enough "gear churn" for gathering and crafting to always be in significant demand across the different tiers of gear.

If for example, you had one or more of those islands as a full loot zone, it could be completely avoided by people not interested in that type of gameplay, but for those who are interested in "Risk vs Reward" you would provide a space for people to gear up, ship out and then fight on a full loot island. It would create a continuous demand for gear of all different tiers as many may only want to equip lower-end cheaper gear to explore the island as if they die they won't lose too much.

It would create demand at the auction houses for people wanting/needing to replace sets they lose.

Currently, you can only lose gatherables upon death from your personal inventory (as well as suffer a durability loss which can be repaired for a silver sink) You can lose stuff that is loaded onto a caravan and a ship but where/when will you ever need to craft/replace a piece of gear once you have one? Perhaps there could be a trash rate applied to gear that when knocked down so that there is a chance a piece of gear you are wearing or weapon you are using trashes and needs to be replaced.

If a server is around 8000 people, where will the demand for sets come from after 8000 of a particular one has been crafted?

An called "Hell" with full PvP loots and no corruption would be fine )

Depraved

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Falkath wrote: »

I wonder if you know the differences between MMORPGS and survival games ? I suggest you look it up.
First a full loot zone would just be avoided by anyone with decent gear not to lose hours of work. The main idea behind starting an MMORPG is that you'll have to work for your stuff, not just sneakly loot it off someone unlucky. And no your armor won't decay to be useless at some point, you can repair it.
Will there be enough demand on crafting if 8000 players have 8000 of the same item ? Well in what world would everyone want one specific item and be happy about it? There will always be something more you'll want, a ship, a second set, a new kind of weapon, a new house,... crafting can't die in a game like that, there is always going to be demand even if it can change, also gear isn't just 4 tiers where if everyone gets last tier the game is over. You can always improve your gear and your stats.

Lies and slander

People will finally THINK and PREPRE and PLAN about how they would into such area, yes people would bring good gear because they will be so rich and have so many different sets that they will have good stuff to spare and have some adrenalin rush in there

Possibly people would come mostly using trash, but that is not a permanent thing

this is not albion where u craft a million weapons and don't care if u lose em or not. it will take time, probs a year or more before u see someone with enough sets they wont care about losing them..and for what? yeah sure some people like the adrenaline. and there will be such billionaires in the server, very few but they will exist. everybody else will go into that area wearing diapers. no one in their right mind risk losing a set with 100% chance after putting months of work and money lol.

going red is a bit different since you wont drop ur stuff 100% of the time, so some people risk it if they think they will get something out of it. also most people who pk do it in worthless gear for the same reason, so don't expect people going into that area in their best gear.

Strevi

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

You could also have the other newly added island as an exclusively PvE island. Where players cannot attack each other at all. Filled with super intense mobs that would potentially allow you to find artifacts that could be used in the creation of cool PvE-focused gear.

I think such PvE areas would be detrimental to the game.
If needed, security can be increased using guards, like those present in cities which attack the corrupted players and alert them already when the attack was initiated but even then, they should still have 20 second delay or more until they arrive to the conflict area, to give the attackers a chance to win and escape if they are well prepared.

insomnia

If it was on an island, that served no other purpose than that. Then i wouldn't care, It wouldn't affect my gameplay. But how many will really go there.
But Josh Strife has made a video as to why full pvp games doesn't work. But of course, one spot in the game changes it.

juniorwizzard

Im fine with giving you an arena, where full loot rules apply, but nothing so large that could be considered an area or zone.

From a business standpoint, too much PvP will alienate too many potential subscribers. Less money is bad. It is a difficult line to draw. So many excellent mmo's have been destroyed by too little or too much PvP.

As it stands now, we will have guilds of criminals roaming the countryside like locust, with far too few bounty hunters to even make a dent in the culture. The only successful crafters will have a guild protecting them while they gather. This is going to alienate the solo and casual players already, severely limiting potential subscriber income. The current rewards for criminals griefing gatherers will have to adjusted and fine tuned until the appropriate culture is established, if they have any hope of retaining solo and casual players.

A guild of criminals versus a few bounty hunters, as it currently stands, is a joke. Only time will tell if it gets better.

Strevi

juniorwizzard wrote: »

As it stands now, we will have guilds of criminals roaming the countryside like locust, with far too few bounty hunters to even make a dent in the culture.

Locusts - These insects are usually solitary, but under certain circumstances they become more abundant and change their behaviour and habits... Both the bands and the swarms move around, rapidly strip fields, and damage crops.

like solo gatherers who join together to destroy the land

Romancyy

No. Either you dont put any incentives other than taking other people's gear and no one does it, or you do put another incentive and you push people to do it, and people wont play.

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