Simple proof of Vanilla WoW prep before raid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFdVeK-gpo

Isn't this beautiful to see? Imagine all hours spend to prepare like this guy, the grind, the people you meet, the enemies you kill in open world, all the adventures? This is what makes MMO epic.

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DarkTides

Falleni

As someone who played vanilla back in the day, private server and classic I cant really praise the grind.
There were some aspects that I liked but spending whole day gathering buffs from all over the world wasnt one of them. (Dire maul,zg,fellwood, dragonslayer etc.) At worst youd get those buffs way in advance and couldnt log to your character before raid and get killed instantly losing them all.

Even alchemy elixirs were better at later when they split them to one guardian one combat and flask which was imo best balance. I dont mind grinding gold or mats for couple hours to get my consumables(flasks,elixirs,potions, armor kits or such) but making people grind 20 hours each week is just unreasonable.

Also sieges, guild wars, node progression and caravans seem to be good money sinks. Siege equipment used in siege should get destroyed also materials/gold used to node repairs are gone from the world so those systems create demand on materials some times.

One thing I would like to see is vendor value for materials and even vendors selling consumables atleast basic level. This way there would be set minimum and maximum price where player trade would fluxuate between.

VekoKrava

I would like to see consumables in game that are strong, expensive and rare. I think vanilla WoW did good with flasks that last for 2hours, craftable only via expensive recipes and it needed 1 herb that was extreme rare to find. Out of 4 zones that it could spawn it would only spawn once per hour in out of 20 spawn points per zone. This plant costed on auction around 120g which was almost 2 hours of farming on average spot that is less risky, some elite farms would be around 120g, but not always, 120 is like peak with RNG, so more like 90g and has high pvp risk. Consider that flask would cost more then 120g because it was made from crafters and not everyone could be alchemist, so basically around 180-200g... I said this already, I know, but I would like to see economy similar to this when it comes to consumables, however when it comes to crafting I think vanilla can be improved by a mile, but consumables worked so well. Intrepid please consider adding resistance potions as well on 5min CD. These would defend you from incoming spell damage (frost,lightning,nature,fire etc...) for about 2min, on some bosses it was mandatory because if you did not have these, boss would literally kill you within 3 hits.

Ehrgeiz

Noaani wrote: »

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

.
If economy is not similar to vanilla WoW then what you going to do with free time? Roam around doing professions for nothing? No, that would be stupid.

Vanilla WoWs economy wasnt all that good.

If you want a game with a good economy, look at either Archeage or EVE.

Either game makes vanilla WoW look like the children's game that it was.

People here saying they dont want what WoW had back then aren't saying they dont want a good economy, for the most part they are saying they want a better economy.

Archeage economy was the worst I ever saw.

VekoKrava

I really don't understand why some of people (many) oppose my ideas about grinding and preparing for content. It has both great individual gold sinks and it creates worthiness of gold because not everything is cheap and not mandatory.

What are you doing in forums from a game that wants to have tradition of RPG games... You have to adapt and embrace grind in patient way in order to enjoy it, if you are rushing to end results then you won't like grinding, it seems you guys are in category of hyper zoomer players where they can't grind for longer then 10 mins or they get bored because there is not instant gratification...

One more thing, 2 hours grinding per day is not a lot, even player that plays 2 hours can do it, just think about it, in a game like AoC with immersive gathering and crafting and full loot PVP you could farm 2 hours one day and the other day you would do PVE/PVP, you just have to be little organized and if you do it as a habit then later it becomes enjoyment...

Ludullu

At this point I think you're either an intricate bot or just a troll

Arya_Yeshe

NiKr wrote: »

At this point I think you're either an intricate bot or just a troll

I have considered he is not a person, but an AI sent by Intrepid, maybe Intrepid is testing an AI that will be in the game and will give quests or do storytelling

I don't think anymore that he is a person

Barab

pvp raids > pve raids

Electronn

I can't say I'm big on mindless, repetitive grind.

However, there needs to be a mechanism for people to put in meaningful effort and preparation in order to increase performance and differentiate themselves from the people who aren't willing to put in the same effort.

Azherae

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

At this point I think you're either an intricate bot or just a troll

I have considered he is not a person, but an AI sent by Intrepid, maybe Intrepid is testing an AI that will be in the game and will give quests or do storytelling

I don't think anymore that he is a person

It might be a test of a very tuned bot, but as a person who writes bots with this capability, if not purpose...

The data doesn't quite line up. The salience values would probably be higher when I run the posts through my parser, since bot outputs NORMALLY create patterns that show up in salience.

I'm not saying 'this isn't a bot'. I'm saying that it's a massive amount of effort for a bot to gather information of a type they already have.

Things like that 'some people (many)' is a lot less likely in bot output, because the abstraction type is hard for chatbots to generate.

If that IS a bot, I wanna meet whoever wrote it.

Arya_Yeshe

@Azherae hm? He has nearly no thought process or abstraction

Everytime someone says significant he can't grasp it, he is a bot
He is just spilling WoW propaganda, could be fed by some pre approved pages about WoW on the internet

This bot is not impressive at all

Arya_Yeshe

Let's test him
https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/07/18/141414/how-to-tell-if-youre-talking-to-a-bot/

The most common way to tell if an account is fake is to check out the profile. The most rudimentary bots lack a photo, a link, or any bio. More sophisticated ones might use a photo stolen from the web, or an automatically generated account name.

Check

Using human language is still incredibly hard for machines. A bot’s tweets may reveal its algorithmic logic: they may be formulaic or repetitive, or use responses common in chatbot programs. Missing an obvious joke and rapidly changing the subject are other telltale traits (unfortunately, they are also quite common among human Twitter users).

Check

Bots are usually created with a particular end in mind, so they may be overly obsessed with a particular topic, perhaps reposting the same link again and again or tweeting about little else.

Check

Looking at tweets over time can also be revealing. If an account tweets at an impossible rate, at unlikely times, or even too regularly, that can be a good sign that it’s fake. Researchers also found that fake accounts often betray an inconsistent attitude toward topics over time.

Check

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

If that IS a bot, I wanna meet whoever wrote it.

It might just be the same case as when you said that your gameplay in an mmo can come off as that of a bot's. Maybe Veko's personality is just that close to how an AI would feel.

I treated the first few threads and discussions with Veko involved as just a maybe not english native speaker who has had a singular big mmo experience and only had that as their pov. And I thought to myself "hell, that's exactly like me". But the more circular discussions there's been and the more explanations Veko has gotten about other games - literally nothing changed. And not only that, but Veko keeps writing the exact same things in different threads.

Now we obviously have several "quirky" people on this forum (me definitely included), but there's gotta be at least some limit to how much a person can avoid understanding information that's been repeated to them time after time. Though maybe that's just my own malleability influencing my pov on people who're not as malleable.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If that IS a bot, I wanna meet whoever wrote it.

It might just be the same case as when you said that your gameplay in an mmo can come off as that of a bot's. Maybe Veko's personality is just that close to how an AI would feel.

I treated the first few threads and discussions with Veko involved as just a maybe not english native speaker who has had a singular big mmo experience and only had that as their pov. And I thought to myself "hell, that's exactly like me". But the more circular discussions there's been and the more explanations Veko has gotten about other games - literally nothing changed. And not only that, but Veko keeps writing the exact same things in different threads.

Now we obviously have several "quirky" people on this forum (me definitely included), but there's gotta be at least some limit to how much a person can avoid understanding information that's been repeated to them time after time. Though maybe that's just my own malleability influencing my pov on people who're not as malleable.

This seems to be the more reasonable perspective. I'm much more used to this being the case.

It actually helps a lot with my work, so I guess I have new material now for this week.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

If you want a good example of a game with a simple trade system, but also a good economy, you want Archeage.

Btw, Noaani I don't remember if this was discussed in one of these 12 fucking same threads, but what was the situation with consumables in AA? And with their role in the bigger economy of the game.

I know that AoC's crafting and economy inspirations might be closer to EVE or SWG, but still. L2's economy was pretty much based on a consumable, so, in case Steven pushes for his own inspirations when discussing these designs, what the situation in AA was?

Consumables were a factor, but not THE factor in the economy.

The main driver of the economy as a whole were trade packs (create specific items, move them to other parts of the world, turn them in for profit).

The next biggest driver of the economy in Archeage was gear upgrading. One specific item I was using in that game cost me well over 1200 of that same item that I had to make, due to destroying it so many times while attempting upgrades. Some people dont like this kind of gear destruction, but it does set up a game to have a great economy.

Consumables were probably a distant third to all of that.

Noaani

Ehrgeiz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

.
If economy is not similar to vanilla WoW then what you going to do with free time? Roam around doing professions for nothing? No, that would be stupid.

Vanilla WoWs economy wasnt all that good.

If you want a game with a good economy, look at either Archeage or EVE.

Either game makes vanilla WoW look like the children's game that it was.

People here saying they dont want what WoW had back then aren't saying they dont want a good economy, for the most part they are saying they want a better economy.

Archeage economy was the worst I ever saw.

@Ehrgeiz

I'm curious as to why you think this. The economy in that game was far and away it's best aspect. It allowed players like me (only willing to spend money on one subscription, no cash shop purchases) the ability to compete with players that spent literal thousands of dollar a month.

I'm wondering if you are conflating the games economy with the pay to win aspect of the game. If so, I do actually agree with you.

akabear

I hope the UI for ashes is never anything close to that example. Way too much clutter and junk...

VekoKrava

Guys I am not a bot haha you got me laughing there, but I admit my english is not the best.

Why I like vanilla WoW so much is that it changed my taste of MMOs. Believe it or not I went from mainstream WoW player to niche old-school player. I even tried EQ but not EQ99 because I still can't join servers even I watched guides I am bad with computers. Currently I am playing Gloria Victis sandbox full loot PVP MMO and I prefer much more playing with 200 players then playing with many more but on modern WoW. I even do not want to play wotlk wow because thats when activision bought blizzard and started making impact on WoW.

Why I never quit WoW when I joined retail (original) wow in cataclysm is because I thought as a teenager that this is real thing and it never bothered me that I can pull 7-8 mobs in open world or if I did not need to do professions... I started playing private servers around 2007-2008 in TBC and when I started vanilla classic in 2019 on original blizzard servers I noticed big changes that got my attention and I remembered things as they were. I am not saying vanilla is the ultimate old-school game, I am much more aware how combat is made because I played WoW classic and I watched EQ99 videos in open world, but the thing I liked about vanilla WoW is that (I hope you understand me) there is that kind of mountain dwarf mentality when you play it, you appreciate ''harder'' things because they teach you so much.

At first I was like I can't level past level 10 because I struggled with patience, I even quit vanilla during phase 1 on 35lvl because I ran out of quests and had to grind mobs (yes this was vanilla experience), I quit because I was grinding mobs with rogue and it went really slow, then in phase 3 of vanilla I started again, but I started leveling hunter because I heard its much easier and I got to 60, then leveled druid to 60 and I fell in love with game open world, I understood this balance between sustaining your character, in retail however this was not the case because you did not need any of those consumables, what I would do in retail is farm 30min and buy all catch-up gear from professions on alts, thats why I farmed gold only, enchants / gems / consumables were not important and they were cheap... I fell in love with this grinding system because you are maintaining your character, its bigger then mindless grinding, its a game within a game.

This is why I want to see this in AoC, because AoC looks amazing... Look at gathering and full loot PVP, I get semi NW and vanilla WoW vibes and if I could combine it together it would be amazing, since I love to be economist in game (obviously) this style of NW gathering will make it even better, and full loot will have this hard vibe as a mountain dwarf which I appreciate in MMOs nowdays... This is again reason why I play gloria victis and not any other modern MMO, I could play gw2 for PVP since I love PVP, but I don't want to, as if I want to protest against theme-park MMOs... I would feel bad if I started playing theme-park mmos again...

This is reason why economy should not be bad in AoC... Everything revolves around if gold has worthiness.

Noaani

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

This is reason why economy should not be bad in AoC... Everything revolves around if gold has worthiness.

I mean, I agree with you in general here, but WoW is the one MMO in which it's in game currency is the most worthless.

Sure, gold in WoW can buy you a mount, or consumables, but that is about it. In almost all other games, in game currency can be used to purchase actual in game character progression.

DarkTides

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