NiKr wrote: » The obviously exploit of this is alt chars who are not in a guild. Solution to that is linking the entire account to the guild ID, but then what about alt chars in different guilds? About the quantity and speed of reports against a single target, it's kinda difficult to balance that. Bots will most likely exist in less popular places to be more safe. If it's such an unpopular place that you only have 10-20 people a day there - that means that the bot gets to farm that location for a day. But as you said, just bringing your party there to mass report the bot would lead to bigger exploits elsewhere.
TyranthraxusEQ wrote: » Alternatively could a system be made where you can challenge the player/bot directly through a prompt, maybe a 1-5 minute timer, and if they don't unflag themselves, proving they aren't, they become purple. Obviously this could probably be worked around with more sophisticated programs, but could there be a way to make sure it isn't.
Interesting idea---let me think through this aloud with the different scenarios: Corrupted player: if you're corrupted and piss a bunch of people off, and they report you as a bot...would that then turn you purple? which would be great for me as a corrupted player but there should be a guard in place against that to where if you're red nothing happens...but it just makes work for GMs to review this erroneous report. then what happens to the people that did the fake reporting? they could claim they truly thought the corrupted player was a bot when they truly werent.
So the key question for this system: How do you stop a bot from detecting it went from green to purple because of this reporting, thus alerting the human behind the bot. What does a GM do with people who did fraudulent reports? How does a GM decide if a player is a bot from the reports
novercalis wrote: » TyranthraxusEQ wrote: » Alternatively could a system be made where you can challenge the player/bot directly through a prompt, maybe a 1-5 minute timer, and if they don't unflag themselves, proving they aren't, they become purple. Obviously this could probably be worked around with more sophisticated programs, but could there be a way to make sure it isn't. I suspect bot makers can easily write a script to click on a prompt and then say "hi, leave me alone."
novercalis wrote: » Question is - is this system creatable?
novercalis wrote: » So, it would be nice if we can just kill Botters w/o getting corruption but alas, we cant. OR CAN WE?????????????????????? I wonder if there is a way, or a system that can be created that isnt abused - where if bots has been reported X amount of times, they can turn purple and stay purple until the GM can finally review. NOW YES OBVIOUS - AS IS - ABUSABLE BY ALL HELLS. How can we prevent Abuse? Unique "IDs" of sorts. example Player 1 ID --- 48392 Player 2 ID --- 43892 Player 3 ID --- 68318 When joining a Guild - a guild ID is added to their player ID Guild ID - G382 so player IDs will look like: Player 1 ID --- 48392G382 Player 2 ID --- 43892G382 Player 3 ID --- 68318G382 The report system will identify it is coming from a guild, trying to mass report. it will not flag the potential botter. The report system will also identify if a mass report is being done in a very short time. IE 10 ppl reported within 2 minutes or less. Reports must be made seeing the character - so it's not like you can open a menu, type a name to report. you got to see the bot in person and click on them to open the report menu as well. So with something like that - Maybe you are the 20th person walking by someone you suspect is a bot. You then report the bot, now you get a prompt or you visually see this person gets flagged purple. This is an indication that multiple ppl have reported for suspect bot activity and you are free to kill. Lucky you, you won the Gacha Bot Also when Reporting players - you have an internal CD to report another user. To prevent all players going around and reporting like mad, creating false flag & getting innocent legit players flagged. thoughts? found a potential exploit? let me know or share your resolution to that hole. Or know of a better approach, let's hear it!
Liniker wrote: » Bots are not our responsibility as players, that's on Intrepid to deal with by having active GMs that are not lazy
novercalis wrote: » Liniker wrote: » Bots are not our responsibility as players, that's on Intrepid to deal with by having active GMs that are not lazy May not be our responsibility, but doesnt mean we cant do our part. Obviously if you see one, Report it. Be nice to kill a botter imo tho. GMs are gonna be flooded with tickets and follow up. As previously mentioned - when a GM investigate a potential botter - I assume the process may take 15-30 minutes. * 10 mins observing the bot behavior * 5-10 minutes checking bot logs, communications, IP Lookup * 5-10 minutes making contact with the bot for a respond, reading any previous account notes, reading other logs (who reported, how frequent, how often - daily, weekly, hourly? writing up a report after determining guilty or not guilty for appeal purposes I don't expect a team of 20 GMs around the clock 24/7 per server is gonna happen. I expect 3 GMS doing 8hr shifts per server. So 1 GM Shift may be able to find 16 bots per day. This is excluding other tickets and GM request, following up on RMTers, Cheaters, Hackers, Exploiters, Bugs, Dupes, Dispute, Harassments, Threats... So, while they are busy doing all other things, and not being able to get to this bot within his shift, YOU ASSUME LAZY. I want to look at - UNTIL GM ARRIVES ON BOT TICKET - let the players grief the botters. A good community is created by the community. So technically, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PLAY OUR PART< DO OUR PART AND CULTIVATE THE RIGHT CULTURE. We can go down the Fortnite/Rust/CoD Community of toxicity or a nice helpful, chill community ala EQ or something in between with Barren Chat ala WoW.
Settite wrote: » Hmmmm some thoughts: 1. If someone is suspected of botting then drop a strong Mob next to them(strong for their level bur still killable of course) this could be the first step. It may reveal the likelihood of them being bots. Example: if they are programed to run in a certain direction like nearest node then come back to botting spot after some time, then the gm need only repeat this prosses every so often on potential bot and if everything lines up to be too clean then boom go to next step and initiate convo and check logs. This obviously has its kinks but something like this sounds not too bad. (If the bot is scripted to fight back then see if ecact combo is used with the same time between each ability use etc etc. If the actions seem too botty then maybe that would reveal them. ) 2. Have the account id + guild id + player id idea that was mentioned earlier in the thread. This would be another layer. 3. Lastly if there is a group of individuals on each server that are willing to make a guild called something like bot hunters and are well known enough to be the "good guys" then if they happen to cross someone they think is a bot, they could simply ask the a question like "what 2 colors can a apple be?" This could be said outloud and not through dms. If the person can't answer after the guildy makes it obvious the question is directed at them then just kill them and move on. That interaction should take no more than 5 mins at most. 4. In hindsight that could would for the gm to catch bots aswell. They could rotate the questions out daily and write them in a broken way like "wWaAt Tw00o c8I0rs KaaaAn Ann ApIe B?" The system could go something like this: 1.Player A gets reported 5 times for botting. 2.Server automatically sends them this question. "wWaAt Tw00o c8I0rs KaaaAn Ann ApIe B?" It should come as a DM I think. The question only pops up while they are gathering or crafting something so it doesn't hurt those in a fight etc etc. They have 1-3min to respond. If they aren't a bot this shouldn't be an issue because they obviously should be looking at their screen to play the game. 3. If they don't respond then they gm could pop up. Monitor them. Maybe use another prompt 10min later and then if they still don't respond, take the appropriate gm actions with the assumption that they are a bot. 4. This would help to avoid false flags so the gm has more time to deal with actual bots. It'd also get rid of a decent amount of bots and make players less likely to bot since it will take more effort to get away with it. The effort required to bot needs to be too high in order to prevent someone from botting. I.e "if I can't make money botting on this game because my accounts keep getting suspended then why would I bot?" I sincerely apologize for making such a long post. It's probably a bit disorganized and flawed here and there. Just wanted to get these thoughts out there. Sorry for the rambling.
Myosotys wrote: » Settite wrote: » Hmmmm some thoughts: 1. If someone is suspected of botting then drop a strong Mob next to them(strong for their level bur still killable of course) this could be the first step. It may reveal the likelihood of them being bots. Example: if they are programed to run in a certain direction like nearest node then come back to botting spot after some time, then the gm need only repeat this prosses every so often on potential bot and if everything lines up to be too clean then boom go to next step and initiate convo and check logs. This obviously has its kinks but something like this sounds not too bad. (If the bot is scripted to fight back then see if ecact combo is used with the same time between each ability use etc etc. If the actions seem too botty then maybe that would reveal them. ) 2. Have the account id + guild id + player id idea that was mentioned earlier in the thread. This would be another layer. 3. Lastly if there is a group of individuals on each server that are willing to make a guild called something like bot hunters and are well known enough to be the "good guys" then if they happen to cross someone they think is a bot, they could simply ask the a question like "what 2 colors can a apple be?" This could be said outloud and not through dms. If the person can't answer after the guildy makes it obvious the question is directed at them then just kill them and move on. That interaction should take no more than 5 mins at most. 4. In hindsight that could would for the gm to catch bots aswell. They could rotate the questions out daily and write them in a broken way like "wWaAt Tw00o c8I0rs KaaaAn Ann ApIe B?" The system could go something like this: 1.Player A gets reported 5 times for botting. 2.Server automatically sends them this question. "wWaAt Tw00o c8I0rs KaaaAn Ann ApIe B?" It should come as a DM I think. The question only pops up while they are gathering or crafting something so it doesn't hurt those in a fight etc etc. They have 1-3min to respond. If they aren't a bot this shouldn't be an issue because they obviously should be looking at their screen to play the game. 3. If they don't respond then they gm could pop up. Monitor them. Maybe use another prompt 10min later and then if they still don't respond, take the appropriate gm actions with the assumption that they are a bot. 4. This would help to avoid false flags so the gm has more time to deal with actual bots. It'd also get rid of a decent amount of bots and make players less likely to bot since it will take more effort to get away with it. The effort required to bot needs to be too high in order to prevent someone from botting. I.e "if I can't make money botting on this game because my accounts keep getting suspended then why would I bot?" I sincerely apologize for making such a long post. It's probably a bit disorganized and flawed here and there. Just wanted to get these thoughts out there. Sorry for the rambling. It depends also of AI of the mobs... On New World you cannot bring a mob enough far to get ride of bots. After few meters the mob goes back to his place. Bots knows it.
novercalis wrote: » the problem with sending mobs to players is - may be considered harassments/griefing. Breaking ToA and getting your account in trouble.
Settite wrote: » Hmmmm some thoughts: 3. Lastly if there is a group of individuals on each server that are willing to make a guild called something like bot hunters and are well known enough to be the "good guys" then if they happen to cross someone they think is a bot, they could simply ask the a question like "what 2 colors can a apple be?" This could be said outloud and not through dms. If the person can't answer after the guildy makes it obvious the question is directed at them then just kill them and move on. That interaction should take no more than 5 mins at most. 4. In hindsight that could would for the gm to catch bots aswell. They could rotate the questions out daily and write them in a broken way like "wWaAt Tw00o c8I0rs KaaaAn Ann ApIe B?" The system could go something like this: 1.Player A gets reported 5 times for botting. 2.Server automatically sends them this question. "wWaAt Tw00o c8I0rs KaaaAn Ann ApIe B?" It should come as a DM I think. The question only pops up while they are gathering or crafting something so it doesn't hurt those in a fight etc etc. They have 1-3min to respond. If they aren't a bot this shouldn't be an issue because they obviously should be looking at their screen to play the game.
