Release dates would be awesome.

Nyftie

I love paying almost $400 and we can’t even get ballpark estimate on alpha and beta release dates…

Find more posts tagged with

Staff

Comments

Gui10

this has to be a troll/attention post...

myk

I mean at the end of the day, if someone buys something, there's usually an idea of when it would arrive.

Let's say I spent 500 bucks on a new video card. I would expect that the person selling it would have some idea of when it would ship, even if there were pandemic related issues, or delivery problems, or even parts and supplies. It has happened, that I've purchased things, only to find out that they'd be arriving weeks later, but the person selling me the thing, felt a responsibility to deliver, and at least, to communicate that delivery schedule.

The problem I'm focusing on here, is not so much the lack of specific dates, but the overall approach of the development... in any software development process, there will always be new ideas that could be explored - but should they? There will always be "next steps" we can only see once we build our systems to a certain point.... but should those steps be taken? Won't they just lead to other steps as well?

The point is, that development is a creative endeavor, and can go on literally forever. It is a very open ended process... many authors get lost, writing their books, and never complete. Many artists spend their lives painting and painting but never finish a work they are proud of or sell.

This game has a commercial aspect to it. That aspect is reinforced each and every time a customer shells out their actual, real life money, that they could be using, or saving, or earning interest or investing, on a fancy cape or really cool costume. Intrepid is happy to take that money, but does not seem to have the perspective of finishing the job and delivering the product.

Instead, the overall feel of this work is still exploratory, still vague and "glorious," but without that focus of delivery, that focus on understanding that this is both a commercial, and creative, product, I find myself extremely doubtful this game will release in a timeframe that allows it any sort of relevance.

While, yes, individual systems and specifics should be worked out properly, and not rushed or hurried, there should still be some overarching view of how long things will take, what the goals are, when things are going to come together, etc. Its called a business plan, every company has one, even if its flexible and uncertain and so on... the focus on the goal helps focus the day to day work, so development doesn't get stuck in the weeds. It is that focus, that acknowledgement that this is, indeed, something people are already putting money towards.... that I fail to see... that willingness to take folks hard earned dollars, and not even give the merest suggestion of a timeframe for delivery of the things that are being sold.

I say this full of deep regret, because I had such high hopes for this game to be different, to be respectful of its players and their money... but the attitude of taking cash without any focus on delivering the product is just really hard to support.

Songcaller

The devs have a ton of focus. The devs have to work through mixed feedback and also remain rather transparent. A2 will happen within 2 years but mmos do take literal years to make behind closed doors. The devs here listen to the community which is very excellent. There is often a disconnect between corporations and clients. I've never felt there is a disconnect between the devs and us.

Uboon

There may not be a release date, and of course it would be great to somehow have a reliable release date, as we could all make plans. But there is a release schedule for Alpha 2; listing everything that needs to be implemented before Alpha-2 is released. Intrepid showcase features that are 'ready' so using the monthly streams we can see the progress through this list. We therefore have a countdown roadmap of sorts.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alpha-2

I have struck through what has been showcased in a stream already, ie 8 out of 29 items. Print it out, cross something off every month, and you will have a good feel for the countdown to Alpha-2.

World
> Seasons and climates.
> Events.
> Quests.
Character
> Character creator.
> Character progression up to level 35 (subject to change).
> All archetypes.
> Some secondary classes and augments.
> Tulnar race.
> Family summon.
> Religions.
Combat
> Combat revamp.
> Active and passive skills will be re-architected.
> Weapon skill trees.
> Actual sieges.
Nodes
> Node progression to City (stage 5).
> Relics and the Reliquary node building.
> Freeholds.
> Crop rotations.
Naval content.
> Naval warfare.
> Three ship classes (functioning cannons but the ship building UI may not be complete).
Economy
> Artisan classes (Gathering, Processing, Crafting).
> Artisan gear sets.
> Potential gameplay layers such as surveying and land management are being considered for gathering.
> Auction houses.
> Crates used to transport supplies between storage points and caravans.
Other
> Unreal Engine 5.
> Some of Bear McCreary's music will be in Alpha-2.
> User interface and tutorial systems.
> Emblem, logo and symbol editor (tentatively).

Songcaller

Can't wait to hear the music. I'm a big fan of bear mccreary.

Mag7spy

myk wrote: »

I mean at the end of the day, if someone buys something, there's usually an idea of when it would arrive.

Let's say I spent 500 bucks on a new video card. I would expect that the person selling it would have some idea of when it would ship, even if there were pandemic related issues, or delivery problems, or even parts and supplies. It has happened, that I've purchased things, only to find out that they'd be arriving weeks later, but the person selling me the thing, felt a responsibility to deliver, and at least, to communicate that delivery schedule.

The problem I'm focusing on here, is not so much the lack of specific dates, but the overall approach of the development... in any software development process, there will always be new ideas that could be explored - but should they? There will always be "next steps" we can only see once we build our systems to a certain point.... but should those steps be taken? Won't they just lead to other steps as well?

The point is, that development is a creative endeavor, and can go on literally forever. It is a very open ended process... many authors get lost, writing their books, and never complete. Many artists spend their lives painting and painting but never finish a work they are proud of or sell.

This game has a commercial aspect to it. That aspect is reinforced each and every time a customer shells out their actual, real life money, that they could be using, or saving, or earning interest or investing, on a fancy cape or really cool costume. Intrepid is happy to take that money, but does not seem to have the perspective of finishing the job and delivering the product.

Instead, the overall feel of this work is still exploratory, still vague and "glorious," but without that focus of delivery, that focus on understanding that this is both a commercial, and creative, product, I find myself extremely doubtful this game will release in a timeframe that allows it any sort of relevance.

While, yes, individual systems and specifics should be worked out properly, and not rushed or hurried, there should still be some overarching view of how long things will take, what the goals are, when things are going to come together, etc. Its called a business plan, every company has one, even if its flexible and uncertain and so on... the focus on the goal helps focus the day to day work, so development doesn't get stuck in the weeds. It is that focus, that acknowledgement that this is, indeed, something people are already putting money towards.... that I fail to see... that willingness to take folks hard earned dollars, and not even give the merest suggestion of a timeframe for delivery of the things that are being sold.

I say this full of deep regret, because I had such high hopes for this game to be different, to be respectful of its players and their money... but the attitude of taking cash without any focus on delivering the product is just really hard to support.

They have dates it's not for consumers as it will give you something to hold onto to complain and forms hate trains and bad pr because you dont understand how development works and the challenges. Any smart person knows in this day and age over the past few years consume are unable to handle things like delays and have overly strong reactions.

You are a type that would not react well, you want something to hold a company accountable for their a refund or to make their game come out faster than it should like all these other games.

End of the day all these early accesses, Kickstarter projects and prefunding you should be well aware on how things go. Development doesn't change suddenly either you make the game, release early or run out of funding. If you don't understand how things work yelling, they need some release schedule (which they have their own internal ones) for the public is selfish and honestly just a bad idea.

When the game is closer and ready you will know their dates for sure and can hold them accountable by that point.

Strevi

Trenker wrote: »

There may not be a release date, and of course it would be great to somehow have a reliable release date, as we could all make plans. But there is a release schedule for Alpha 2; listing everything that needs to be implemented before Alpha-2 is released. Intrepid showcase features that are 'ready' so using the monthly streams we can see the progress through this list. We therefore have a countdown roadmap of sorts.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alpha-2

I have struck through what has been showcased in a stream already, ie 8 out of 29 items. Print it out, cross something off every month, and you will have a good feel for the countdown to Alpha-2.

World
> Seasons and climates.
> Events.
> Quests.
Character
> Character creator.
> Character progression up to level 35 (subject to change).
> All archetypes.
> Some secondary classes and augments.
> Tulnar race.
> Family summon.
> Religions.
Combat
> Combat revamp.
> Active and passive skills will be re-architected.
> Weapon skill trees.
> Actual sieges.
Nodes
> Node progression to City (stage 5).
> Relics and the Reliquary node building.
> Freeholds.
> Crop rotations.
Naval content.
> Naval warfare.
> Three ship classes (functioning cannons but the ship building UI may not be complete).
Economy
> Artisan classes (Gathering, Processing, Crafting).
> Artisan gear sets.
> Potential gameplay layers such as surveying and land management are being considered for gathering.
> Auction houses.
> Crates used to transport supplies between storage points and caravans.
Other
> Unreal Engine 5.
> Some of Bear McCreary's music will be in Alpha-2.
> User interface and tutorial systems.
> Emblem, logo and symbol editor (tentatively).

Do you feel they done more than 50% or less?

Liniker

Trenker wrote: »

I have struck through what has been showcased in a stream already, ie 8 out of 29 items. Print it out, cross something off every month, and you will have a good feel for the countdown to Alpha-2.

World
> Seasons and climates.
> Events.
> Quests.
Character
> Character creator.
> Character progression up to level 35 (subject to change).
> All archetypes.
> Some secondary classes and augments.
> Tulnar race.
> Family summon.
> Religions.
Combat
> Combat revamp.
> Active and passive skills will be re-architected.
> Weapon skill trees.
> Actual sieges.
Nodes
> Node progression to City (stage 5).
> Relics and the Reliquary node building.
> Freeholds.
> Crop rotations.
Naval content.
> Naval warfare.
> Three ship classes (functioning cannons but the ship building UI may not be complete).
Economy
> Artisan classes (Gathering, Processing, Crafting).
> Artisan gear sets.
> Potential gameplay layers such as surveying and land management are being considered for gathering.
> Auction houses.
> Crates used to transport supplies between storage points and caravans.
Other
> Unreal Engine 5.
> Some of Bear McCreary's music will be in Alpha-2.
> User interface and tutorial systems.
> Emblem, logo and symbol editor (tentatively).

They absolutely do not show things only when they are "ready" or close to being ready, you struck through Tulnar, Events, Surveying and we haven't seen Any of those, only heard about it or saw concepts... and even things we saw like character creator we only saw 1 race out of 9 with like 4 hairstyles and never seen custom models ingame, they only use the same default models.

Liniker

Strevi wrote: »

Do you feel they done more than 50% or less?

based on what we saw, they have like 10% done for A2

Voxtrium

myk wrote: »

I mean at the end of the day, if someone buys something, there's usually an idea of when it would arrive.

Let's say I spent 500 bucks on a new video card. I would expect that the person selling it would have some idea of when it would ship, even if there were pandemic related issues, or delivery problems, or even parts and supplies. It has happened, that I've purchased things, only to find out that they'd be arriving weeks later, but the person selling me the thing, felt a responsibility to deliver, and at least, to communicate that delivery schedule.

The problem I'm focusing on here, is not so much the lack of specific dates, but the overall approach of the development... in any software development process, there will always be new ideas that could be explored - but should they? There will always be "next steps" we can only see once we build our systems to a certain point.... but should those steps be taken? Won't they just lead to other steps as well?

The point is, that development is a creative endeavor, and can go on literally forever. It is a very open ended process... many authors get lost, writing their books, and never complete. Many artists spend their lives painting and painting but never finish a work they are proud of or sell.

This game has a commercial aspect to it. That aspect is reinforced each and every time a customer shells out their actual, real life money, that they could be using, or saving, or earning interest or investing, on a fancy cape or really cool costume. Intrepid is happy to take that money, but does not seem to have the perspective of finishing the job and delivering the product.

Instead, the overall feel of this work is still exploratory, still vague and "glorious," but without that focus of delivery, that focus on understanding that this is both a commercial, and creative, product, I find myself extremely doubtful this game will release in a timeframe that allows it any sort of relevance.

While, yes, individual systems and specifics should be worked out properly, and not rushed or hurried, there should still be some overarching view of how long things will take, what the goals are, when things are going to come together, etc. Its called a business plan, every company has one, even if its flexible and uncertain and so on... the focus on the goal helps focus the day to day work, so development doesn't get stuck in the weeds. It is that focus, that acknowledgement that this is, indeed, something people are already putting money towards.... that I fail to see... that willingness to take folks hard earned dollars, and not even give the merest suggestion of a timeframe for delivery of the things that are being sold.

I say this full of deep regret, because I had such high hopes for this game to be different, to be respectful of its players and their money... but the attitude of taking cash without any focus on delivering the product is just really hard to support.

A graphics card is hardware, its design is finished, this is a video game, it has very few similarities to the design of a graphics card.

You buy a graphics card that has a design and get a shipping date, you buy a unreleased un tested game that tells you it will go through a minimum of A1, A2, B1, B2 testing before launch and you want an exact date? In addition there hasn't been a date in years, if you purchase anything AOC related today, its with the distinct knowledge that there is no date for its next Alpha much less launch.

Additionally @Strevi Alpha 2 will launch with barebones Alpha 2 features, there is no reason to expect them to finish node progression to 5 or relics or really nearly anything on your list before they launch they Alpha 2. Alpha 2 will be core feature complete by the END of Alpha testing.

Strevi

Voxtrium wrote: »

Additionally @Strevi Alpha 2 will launch with barebones Alpha 2 features, there is no reason to expect them to finish node progression to 5 or relics or really nearly anything on your list before they launch they Alpha 2. Alpha 2 will be core feature complete by the END of Alpha testing.

I have nothing against a barebone Alpha 2.
I can play it in a primitive state a few years until they add all remaining features.
And I would pay a monthly subscription too and report bugs.
All I want for start is nodes up to lvl 3, castle nodes, caravan system, weapon and armor crafting.

I don't need all the classes, mounts, breeding, deep ocean... right from the beginning.

But it is Intrepid Studios who wants to keep Alpha 2 short I guess.

myk

Voxtrium wrote: »

You buy a graphics card that has a design and get a shipping date, you buy a unreleased un tested game that tells you it will go through a minimum of A1, A2, B1, B2 testing before launch and you want an exact date? In addition there hasn't been a date in years, if you purchase anything AOC related today, its with the distinct knowledge that there is no date for its next Alpha much less launch.

I agree, this has become a trend in the last few years. I'm sure the elephant in the room in this conversation is Star Citizen, but, being an old timer, I can remember times when folks didn't buy software unless it was finished. To me, paying money... for anything, but in this case, specifically software that has an open ended, unknown release date... it just feels pretty strange. I can't help but feel the customers who are giving their cash to this company are just exacerbating this problem... but I guess many folks don't think its a problem. Oh well, everyone has their open perspective.

I appreciate the thought out reply, and reasonable tone of your response, Voxtrium!

Just a note, also, I'm not really looking for a specific release date, as an Ark player, I am all to aware that those are... hopeful promises at best.

I am more disappointed that I don't see any real desire from either the community or the developer to really get this sucker done and play it. I certainly would love to get going on this game, its been on my most wanted list for half a decade. I don't understand why folks are so happy to wait for 5+ years and, if @Liniker (above) is correct, we're sitting on a very long roadmap in front of us still... we see the same devotion for Star Citizen, one of my good friends is 40 grand in the hole on a spaceship that is only concept art. No joke. I put my $25 on the table to check it out, and its just got a few shops, a couple simple planets, and 2 or 3 nicely worked up cities. I mean, its a game about spaceships, and traveling from one planet to another is broken still... to the tune of what, hundreds of millions gone?

Well, thanks for listening, I'll tune out until next January I guess. Good luck, glorious waiters.

Voxtrium

myk wrote: »

Voxtrium wrote: »

You buy a graphics card that has a design and get a shipping date, you buy a unreleased un tested game that tells you it will go through a minimum of A1, A2, B1, B2 testing before launch and you want an exact date? In addition there hasn't been a date in years, if you purchase anything AOC related today, its with the distinct knowledge that there is no date for its next Alpha much less launch.

I agree, this has become a trend in the last few years. I'm sure the elephant in the room in this conversation is Star Citizen, but, being an old timer, I can remember times when folks didn't buy software unless it was finished. To me, paying money... for anything, but in this case, specifically software that has an open ended, unknown release date... it just feels pretty strange. I can't help but feel the customers who are giving their cash to this company are just exacerbating this problem... but I guess many folks don't think its a problem. Oh well, everyone has their open perspective.

I appreciate the thought out reply, and reasonable tone of your response, Voxtrium!

Just a note, also, I'm not really looking for a specific release date, as an Ark player, I am all to aware that those are... hopeful promises at best.

I am more disappointed that I don't see any real desire from either the community or the developer to really get this sucker done and play it. I certainly would love to get going on this game, its been on my most wanted list for half a decade. I don't understand why folks are so happy to wait for 5+ years and, if @Liniker (above) is correct, we're sitting on a very long roadmap in front of us still... we see the same devotion for Star Citizen, one of my good friends is 40 grand in the hole on a spaceship that is only concept art. No joke. I put my $25 on the table to check it out, and its just got a few shops, a couple simple planets, and 2 or 3 nicely worked up cities. I mean, its a game about spaceships, and traveling from one planet to another is broken still... to the tune of what, hundreds of millions gone?

Well, thanks for listening, I'll tune out until next January I guess. Good luck, glorious waiters.

Star Citizen is a beast haha.
Definitely debatable selling concepts, but Idk how to argue that very well, other than that I am ok with it as long as the concept doesn't fall through.

I would argue the desire appears to be there based on IS livestreams, they often say they wish they could play the game just as much as we do. It is just harder to see what they want because we don't interact with 99% of IS

Strevi

Star Citizen is a scam.

Vaknar

Don't feel the need to purchase a pre-order package! Especially if you don't want to participate in testing. You're more than welcome to wait until the release, as there won't be a box cost for the game. Only a subscription fee!

We understand how excited people are to play. Ashes of Creation will be done when it's ready. We want to make the best possible MMORPG that we can

Uboon

Strevi wrote: »

Do you feel they done more than 50% or less?

Based on the list I would say 25% to 35% of A2 done. This takes in to account the valid comment from @Liniker that some things shown are not really 'ready' or complete. Of course some items on the list are much more time consuming to implement than others. But the list itself and rate of progress is a clear indication that we'll be lucky to see A2 in 2023.

NoxVost

For sure, AoC devs know the "waterfall" and "agile" principles. The first is to first make everything, and only then show it to public. The latter is to release MVP (minimal valueable product) and continue improving it while players are testing/playing the game.

According to this, I would assume the game is far not ready even for the MVP state

Strevi

MVP are the monthly streams.
And improving based on feedback about what we seen.
They cannot keep Alpha 2 servers running longer than 9 months unless we pay subscription.

NoxVost

Strevi wrote: »

They cannot keep Alpha 2 servers running longer than 9 months unless we pay subscription.

Sorry mate, have to disagree.
Access to A2 is hidden under paywall. And this money could be spent on server upkeep

Strevi

NoxVost wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

They cannot keep Alpha 2 servers running longer than 9 months unless we pay subscription.

Sorry mate, have to disagree.
Access to A2 is hidden under paywall. And this money could be spent on server upkeep

https://ashesofcreation.com/shop/63bf06ebef023c05957af457
250$ - 90$ for 6 month after release = 160$ which covers 10 months server access during Alpha 2.
Who would pay for a longer alpha 2? Steven?

Child Item