PvP sanctioned events and corruption?

In the UI/UX livestream a question was asked that basicly said: In pvp sanctioned events you don't gain corruption. This does make me wonder, if guilds can circumvent the corruption alltogether, by for example declaring war to every other guild (in the vicinity)?

How should AoC prevent circumventing the corruption system by clever manipulation of pvp sanctioned events?

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Arya_Yeshe

That's not circumventing at all, it's fair warfare. Besides, I wonder which guilds would grind that many war scrolls, considering that a guild has to farm a scroll to declare war.

Never use again the word circunventing when talking about this, because declaring war is simply playing the game.

Ludullu

As Arya said, that is an intended gameplay mechanic. But yes, war decs will have a cost so I doubt a lot of guilds could even make declarations at big scales.

Also, if you declare war on several guilds - you'll get attacked by all those guilds too. And while a strong guild might overpower a few weaker guilds here and there, if that strong guild declares a ton of wars against everyone around they'll get overwhelmed due to being spread out too thin.

I've declared wars on whole private servers back in L2 days and we could only fight those if our whole guild was constantly on the same level of progress and was always farming stuff together. But as soon as we'd split up - we'd get destroyed by bigger forces. It was its own fun of course, but war decs in L2 also had 0 costs, so we didn't lose much in the process.

Azherae

Technically, I phrased my question poorly, what I was trying to find out was which amount of MATERIALS your enemies in Guild Wars drop, and thought I'd just 'get all the information I could'. And of course ended up with the half of the answer I didn't technically want, for my greed.

But there's always next time.

As for your question, I don't think there should be any prevention of that. I do think that the 'protected members' thing that some games do, could be a good fit for Ashes, especially if a Guild War is treated as 'sanctioned', it wouldn't be THAT weird to say 'these players are civilians for this war, if you kill them you will get corrupted normally, and they can't directly assist in clearing objectives.

But this would really only be to allow guilds to have lower level characters/players able to join them and try to catch up, which isn't really the 'point' of a Guild War situation. People may just have to adjust to that.

George_Black

Kesthely wrote: »

In the UI/UX livestream a question was asked that basicly said: In pvp sanctioned events you don't gain corruption. This does make me wonder, if guilds can circumvent the corruption alltogether, by for example declaring war to every other guild (in the vicinity)?

How should AoC prevent circumventing the corruption system by clever manipulation of pvp sanctioned events?

Declare war to everybody? Meaning that everybody can attack you without consequencess?

..... plz think before you type a strange scenario.

Arya_Yeshe

Afaik, such events will flag players as combatant (purple) and they drop half the stuff a non combatant would drop.

I don't remember right now the percentage, but it's quite low, like 15-20%? I forgot

Declaring a war will be done through a war scroll that can be acquired running a specific quest with your guild, so you can't simply buy it with gold

Kesthely

Depending on the cost, and max duration my scenario might not be realistic, but i rather have thought about a what if scenario, and a potential failsafe. There will come a time that guild declaration cost will be negilable for some large guids, Especially if they can be set for long war times. In many full loot games beeing "at odds" against the rest of the server is normal, this doesn't hinder people, especially if you can circumvent corruption, wich would make livemore difficult, then paying a certain amount of resources each time period.

EG, i wouldn't mind paying 25% of my monthly income, if that means i never have to deal with potential corruption, if i keep non allies out of our territory.
In Eve, i've always lived in NBSI space, (Not Blue Shoot It) If we can muster enough players we are going to plan on taking a node on a server and use that NBSI approach there.

In essence id much rather have the corruption system work in conjuntion with this then having a way to circumvent it. Having an area that is known to be hostile for players if there not blue, is going to bring a much different, and dynamic warfront. Its much more fun if there is risk involved in your pvp (hence i love eve pvp) and a flatout price to pay to remove risk is going to be easy for the bigger and more powerfull guilds in the long run. Especially if you consider the impact that landform may have on the tactics of your attrition wars.

An example, we want to economically hurt node/region x, so we declare war at them. this way we don't drop harvested materials on death, and we make a campaign to completly mine out and deforest an area. Due to it beeing a sanctioned pvp event, Counterplay to kill us and retrieve the harvested goods is not possible, in addition, because we do not get corrupted we will sill be able to interact with our guilds storage facilities and deposit our plundered goods. This sort of gameplay should be possible, but should never becomethe norm, and therefor i believe there should be failsaves to circumvent corruption.

My idea:
Logiritmic scale on the cost of wars depending on size of the declaring, and receiving war target, as well as a logaritmic scale on the amount of active wars, and a logaritmic scale on the frequency of declaring wars. As a last failsave an Inverse logarithmic scale on the max duration of a war.

Depraved

Azherae wrote: »

Technically, I phrased my question poorly, what I was trying to find out was which amount of MATERIALS your enemies in Guild Wars drop, and thought I'd just 'get all the information I could'. And of course ended up with the half of the answer I didn't technically want, for my greed.

But there's always next time.

As for your question, I don't think there should be any prevention of that. I do think that the 'protected members' thing that some games do, could be a good fit for Ashes, especially if a Guild War is treated as 'sanctioned', it wouldn't be THAT weird to say 'these players are civilians for this war, if you kill them you will get corrupted normally, and they can't directly assist in clearing objectives.

But this would really only be to allow guilds to have lower level characters/players able to join them and try to catch up, which isn't really the 'point' of a Guild War situation. People may just have to adjust to that.

if you attack someone you are in war with in a PVP event, why would you get any loot or anything out of that? you are still in the PVP event

Veeshan

Azherae wrote: »

Technically, I phrased my question poorly, what I was trying to find out was which amount of MATERIALS your enemies in Guild Wars drop, and thought I'd just 'get all the information I could'. And of course ended up with the half of the answer I didn't technically want, for my greed.

But there's always next time.

As for your question, I don't think there should be any prevention of that. I do think that the 'protected members' thing that some games do, could be a good fit for Ashes, especially if a Guild War is treated as 'sanctioned', it wouldn't be THAT weird to say 'these players are civilians for this war, if you kill them you will get corrupted normally, and they can't directly assist in clearing objectives.

But this would really only be to allow guilds to have lower level characters/players able to join them and try to catch up, which isn't really the 'point' of a Guild War situation. People may just have to adjust to that.

you can leave the guild for the duration of the war if you want to be civilians as an option all sanctioned events have a way to avoid it, you can leave the area where the conflict is, your can drop guild or citizen ship, you can not go in the area that flag you (ruins and open ocean).

if a node war breaks out its in your interest to do what u can to defend it if ur invested there but if you dont care either way just go on a vacation and check out other parts of the world while the war sorts itself out. Basicly any santumed pvp stuff can be advoided by checking out a different part of the world for a bit since chances to find somone part of that war away from active area is slim.

Also one thing alot of people are overlooking the heavy pvp orinated players tend to flock to the same portion of the map since thats where the "action is" which basicly leaves 75% of the rest of the maps rather void of pvp orientated players. They are apparently the minority of the playerbase if u listen to people when it comes to pvp/pve debate so you will probaly only see small pockets of heavy pvp on the map where alot of the other area are relativly untouched

Veeshan

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Afaik, such events will flag players as combatant (purple) and they drop half the stuff a non combatant would drop.

I don't remember right now the percentage, but it's quite low, like 15-20%? I forgot

Declaring a war will be done through a war scroll that can be acquired running a specific quest with your guild, so you can't simply buy it with gold

i dont think they ever given a value on drop atm all we know is purple is half of non combatant but i dont think we even heard how much a non combatant drops.

Veeshan

Depraved wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Technically, I phrased my question poorly, what I was trying to find out was which amount of MATERIALS your enemies in Guild Wars drop, and thought I'd just 'get all the information I could'. And of course ended up with the half of the answer I didn't technically want, for my greed.

But there's always next time.

As for your question, I don't think there should be any prevention of that. I do think that the 'protected members' thing that some games do, could be a good fit for Ashes, especially if a Guild War is treated as 'sanctioned', it wouldn't be THAT weird to say 'these players are civilians for this war, if you kill them you will get corrupted normally, and they can't directly assist in clearing objectives.

But this would really only be to allow guilds to have lower level characters/players able to join them and try to catch up, which isn't really the 'point' of a Guild War situation. People may just have to adjust to that.

if you attack someone you are in war with in a PVP event, why would you get any loot or anything out of that? you are still in the PVP event

pvp event just make them purple tag so same drop rule apply as purple tag when it comes to drops

Songcaller

Not everyone in a pvp event will have drops. Some will plan and avoid dropping anything.

Depraved

Veeshan wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Technically, I phrased my question poorly, what I was trying to find out was which amount of MATERIALS your enemies in Guild Wars drop, and thought I'd just 'get all the information I could'. And of course ended up with the half of the answer I didn't technically want, for my greed.

But there's always next time.

As for your question, I don't think there should be any prevention of that. I do think that the 'protected members' thing that some games do, could be a good fit for Ashes, especially if a Guild War is treated as 'sanctioned', it wouldn't be THAT weird to say 'these players are civilians for this war, if you kill them you will get corrupted normally, and they can't directly assist in clearing objectives.

But this would really only be to allow guilds to have lower level characters/players able to join them and try to catch up, which isn't really the 'point' of a Guild War situation. People may just have to adjust to that.

if you attack someone you are in war with in a PVP event, why would you get any loot or anything out of that? you are still in the PVP event

pvp event just make them purple tag so same drop rule apply as purple tag when it comes to drops

death penalties are disabled during pvp events...

Azherae

Veeshan wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Technically, I phrased my question poorly, what I was trying to find out was which amount of MATERIALS your enemies in Guild Wars drop, and thought I'd just 'get all the information I could'. And of course ended up with the half of the answer I didn't technically want, for my greed.

But there's always next time.

As for your question, I don't think there should be any prevention of that. I do think that the 'protected members' thing that some games do, could be a good fit for Ashes, especially if a Guild War is treated as 'sanctioned', it wouldn't be THAT weird to say 'these players are civilians for this war, if you kill them you will get corrupted normally, and they can't directly assist in clearing objectives.

But this would really only be to allow guilds to have lower level characters/players able to join them and try to catch up, which isn't really the 'point' of a Guild War situation. People may just have to adjust to that.

if you attack someone you are in war with in a PVP event, why would you get any loot or anything out of that? you are still in the PVP event

pvp event just make them purple tag so same drop rule apply as purple tag when it comes to drops

This was the point of the question.

One of two things is gonna happen and we probably should care which.

"I declare Guild War against the guild of this person who keeps killing me to take my gatherables, so now he can't take any."

"I declare Guild War against the guild of this person to take her gatherables, without getting Corruption, even if she doesn't fight back." (and then maybe they drop 25%, maybe they drop 50%).

Maybe I misunderstand Guild Wars, but in the games I've played, it goes on for sometimes 2-3 rl days and it's just 'whenever you see anyone from this guild in the world you should fight them'.

Arya_Yeshe

As a side note, in the online game EVE Online, players can declare war on each other and pay a weekly fee to keep the war going. It's important to keep in mind that EVE has a 100% drop/destruction rate, meaning that any ship or item destroyed in the game is permanently lost. If you manage to loot enough from your enemies, you can potentially sustain the cost of the weekly fee indefinitely. This means that you have the power to disrupt your enemies' gameplay experience and even force them out of the game.

On the other hand, in AoC, wars last for several days and then a cooldown period begins. From a game design perspective, this is really good. I don't care how petty people's reasons will be or if they will declare war just for the sake of playing the game.

Jindrack

Depraved wrote: »

death penalties are disabled during pvp events...

Depraved is correct, during pvp events such as caravans, guild wars, and sieges, the death penalties are disabled between participating characters on opposing sides. Attacking and killing players on the opposing side doesn't trigger the purple and red flags, nor does dying drop any resources or loot. However, you can't hide in this state as a Red corrupted player either. If you are Red, you'll still be Red in the siege or caravan and open to anyone to kill you and drop your loot, regardless of the side you are on. Being Red trumps everything.

Special case, entering Open Seas will turn you purple and a combatant. Open Seas are not a pvp event per se, but are combatant zones.

Azherae

Jindrack wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

death penalties are disabled during pvp events...

Depraved is correct, during pvp events such as caravans, guild wars, and sieges, the death penalties are disabled between participating characters on opposing sides. Attacking and killing players on the opposing side doesn't trigger the purple and red flags, nor does dying drop any resources or loot. However, you can't hide in this state as a Red corrupted player either. If you are Red, you'll still be Red in the siege or caravan and open to anyone to kill you and drop your loot, regardless of the side you are on. Being Red trumps everything.

Special case, entering Open Seas will turn you purple and a combatant. Open Seas are not a pvp event per se, but are combatant zones.

Thank you! I believe that clears up the entire thing.

EDIT: Also I hate and disagree with this implementation, but I truly appreciate the detailed clarification.

Arya_Yeshe

I wonder if people can cleanse corruption at the sea, hopefully yes, since your flag will go from red to purple it is a bit confusing.

Jindrack

As mentioned before, you can't hide your Red, even at sea. Being Red trumps all PVP states. In the Open Sea you are still Red when everyone else is Purple.

Solvryn

Jindrack wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

death penalties are disabled during pvp events...

Depraved is correct, during pvp events such as caravans, guild wars, and sieges, the death penalties are disabled between participating characters on opposing sides. Attacking and killing players on the opposing side doesn't trigger the purple and red flags, nor does dying drop any resources or loot. However, you can't hide in this state as a Red corrupted player either. If you are Red, you'll still be Red in the siege or caravan and open to anyone to kill you and drop your loot, regardless of the side you are on. Being Red trumps everything.

Special case, entering Open Seas will turn you purple and a combatant. Open Seas are not a pvp event per se, but are combatant zones.

Feel like the corruption system is incomplete or maybe corruption and a law system need to be in place. Once corruption was removed from the waters and is no longer explained, it's just international waters and really the system becomes law and order.

There's no explanation for us to why corruption is only on soil and not at sea. Not to mention that the corruption system is incomplete on paper and no where does it show us where it feeds back into the game.

Depraved

Solvryn wrote: »

Jindrack wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

death penalties are disabled during pvp events...

Depraved is correct, during pvp events such as caravans, guild wars, and sieges, the death penalties are disabled between participating characters on opposing sides. Attacking and killing players on the opposing side doesn't trigger the purple and red flags, nor does dying drop any resources or loot. However, you can't hide in this state as a Red corrupted player either. If you are Red, you'll still be Red in the siege or caravan and open to anyone to kill you and drop your loot, regardless of the side you are on. Being Red trumps everything.

Special case, entering Open Seas will turn you purple and a combatant. Open Seas are not a pvp event per se, but are combatant zones.

Feel like the corruption system is incomplete or maybe corruption and a law system need to be in place. Once corruption was removed from the waters and is no longer explained, it's just international waters and really the system becomes law and order.

There's no explanation for us to why corruption is only on soil and not at sea. Not to mention that the corruption system is incomplete on paper and no where does it show us where it feeds back into the game.

if you are red and enter the sea, you are still red....

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