George_Black wrote: » AoC is an open world pvp mmo.
NiKr wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » What if looting automatically flagged a player as purple? That could lead to all kinds of abuses. A bait corpse with some semi-good loot to entice a random passerby to flag themselves, while some pvp-hungry dudes wait around the corner or behind a tree. This also punishes anyone who'd be willing to stand up to the PKer, because now this player would be a target for anyone around them while the whole purpose of the system is to make the PKer "a mob" so that green players could enact revenge w/o fear.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » What if looting automatically flagged a player as purple?
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all!
Wiki wrote: When a player dies they disintegrate into ash. The ashes contain any items lost by the player due to applicable death penalties.[3][4][5][6][7] These ash piles are immediately lootable by any player.[4] Player flagging is not triggered by looting.[8]
Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames
Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything
Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Which is a shame because denying certain resources/supplies before a seige or before a major attack is a big part of warfare, i think material drop should still be a thing during pvp events however XP loss shouldnt be. If somone gonna attack you but they havant stockpiled enough seige equipment yet it allows defenders to kill the gatherer or mules trying to bring in the resources to make said items before seiges which can hinder them before the main event and so on this should be part of the game which means materials dropping on death during these events should be a must since it allows side to deny the other crucial materials leading up to the major event. also when it comes to caravans alot of the materials (as much as one person can carry will be carried on each defender person to limited loss if they do loose the caravan from an attack
Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Which is a shame because denying certain resources/supplies before a seige or before a major attack is a big part of warfare, i think material drop should still be a thing during pvp events however XP loss shouldnt be. If somone gonna attack you but they havant stockpiled enough seige equipment yet it allows defenders to kill the gatherer or mules trying to bring in the resources to make said items before seiges which can hinder them before the main event and so on this should be part of the game which means materials dropping on death during these events should be a must since it allows side to deny the other crucial materials leading up to the major event. also when it comes to caravans alot of the materials (as much as one person can carry will be carried on each defender person to limited loss if they do loose the caravan from an attack if there was a material drop on pvp events, don't you think people will put their stuff in the store before starting the event? remember you have to sign up for these events. you don't just randomly stumble upon the event while you are outside farming stuff.
Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Which is a shame because denying certain resources/supplies before a seige or before a major attack is a big part of warfare, i think material drop should still be a thing during pvp events however XP loss shouldnt be. If somone gonna attack you but they havant stockpiled enough seige equipment yet it allows defenders to kill the gatherer or mules trying to bring in the resources to make said items before seiges which can hinder them before the main event and so on this should be part of the game which means materials dropping on death during these events should be a must since it allows side to deny the other crucial materials leading up to the major event. also when it comes to caravans alot of the materials (as much as one person can carry will be carried on each defender person to limited loss if they do loose the caravan from an attack if there was a material drop on pvp events, don't you think people will put their stuff in the store before starting the event? remember you have to sign up for these events. you don't just randomly stumble upon the event while you are outside farming stuff. war declarations from my understanding is one of these events so anything leading up to node wars or guild wars which is key time u want to stop them getting resources and so on, ruins after a war aswell is also pvp spot which will have material loot in and so on. Caravans u might stumble across them farming and have items on you so you might be more reluctant to attack it, defenders will carry items on the caravan themselfs instead of carry as much as they can persoanly carry thenb leave the rest on there so they cant loose the ones there carrying
Noaani wrote: » M Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Which is a shame because denying certain resources/supplies before a seige or before a major attack is a big part of warfare, i think material drop should still be a thing during pvp events however XP loss shouldnt be. If somone gonna attack you but they havant stockpiled enough seige equipment yet it allows defenders to kill the gatherer or mules trying to bring in the resources to make said items before seiges which can hinder them before the main event and so on this should be part of the game which means materials dropping on death during these events should be a must since it allows side to deny the other crucial materials leading up to the major event. also when it comes to caravans alot of the materials (as much as one person can carry will be carried on each defender person to limited loss if they do loose the caravan from an attack if there was a material drop on pvp events, don't you think people will put their stuff in the store before starting the event? remember you have to sign up for these events. you don't just randomly stumble upon the event while you are outside farming stuff. war declarations from my understanding is one of these events so anything leading up to node wars or guild wars which is key time u want to stop them getting resources and so on, ruins after a war aswell is also pvp spot which will have material loot in and so on. Caravans u might stumble across them farming and have items on you so you might be more reluctant to attack it, defenders will carry items on the caravan themselfs instead of carry as much as they can persoanly carry thenb leave the rest on there so they cant loose the ones there carrying Guild and node wars are not going to be the same resource sink that sieges will be - the scales will be somewhat different. Cutting off a supply of resources for a guild or node war is probably not going to be worth it. I totally agree that denying resources is likely to be a key aspect of sieges, just not guild and node wars.
Outside of these events, normal PvP flagging and corruption rules apply.[16][8][10] During PvP events such as caravans, guild wars, and sieges, the death penalties are disabled between participating characters on opposing sides. Attacking and killing players on the opposing side doesn't trigger the purple and red flags, nor does dying drop any resources or loot. [45]https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP
NiKr wrote: » All pvp events have their own goals which provide the risk/reward situation. We still gotta learn what kind of risk caravan attackers have (cause "muh progression points" ain't fucking it), but outside of that: guild wars cost money for the attackers but they might lose or the victim just surrenders and the attackers get less money in return; node wars are kinda as vague as caravans rn cause we don't have any info on them, but maybe failing to achieve the goal of the war within reasonable time or after some attempts will do smth? Pvp events can't have mat drop, because events don't limit pvp, which means that people will be dying dozens of times a day. We already have gear decay (which I think will go away), so that's already a mat think, which is effectively a gear think on a larger scale. If you add harsher penalties to event deaths - fucking no one will participate in wars and you'll have yourself a god damn pve game.
Veeshan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » M Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Depraved wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Veeshan I fully agree! Many mechanics that people say that can be "exploited", "abused" or "circunvented" are just everyday mechanics which people will learn to dodge. I am in for having a 1000 possible baits, that's better than trying to have zero baits, a game with zero baits isn't a game at all! the thing with traps are if you fall for the same trap twice well thats shame on you right there :P first time is like well played you got me there 2nd time is welp im an idiot you cant relay blame anyone else Caravans wwill be another one people use to bait you might see a lightly defended caravan aka golden oppotunity but turns out there a bunch of defenders hiding nearby waiting to ambush the ambushers for the stuff they have on them while avoiding corruption since thats sanctioned pvp event. makes you think twice when attacking any caravans maybe it is lightly defended maybe its not mindgames no death penalties on pvp events. you wont drop anything Which is a shame because denying certain resources/supplies before a seige or before a major attack is a big part of warfare, i think material drop should still be a thing during pvp events however XP loss shouldnt be. If somone gonna attack you but they havant stockpiled enough seige equipment yet it allows defenders to kill the gatherer or mules trying to bring in the resources to make said items before seiges which can hinder them before the main event and so on this should be part of the game which means materials dropping on death during these events should be a must since it allows side to deny the other crucial materials leading up to the major event. also when it comes to caravans alot of the materials (as much as one person can carry will be carried on each defender person to limited loss if they do loose the caravan from an attack if there was a material drop on pvp events, don't you think people will put their stuff in the store before starting the event? remember you have to sign up for these events. you don't just randomly stumble upon the event while you are outside farming stuff. war declarations from my understanding is one of these events so anything leading up to node wars or guild wars which is key time u want to stop them getting resources and so on, ruins after a war aswell is also pvp spot which will have material loot in and so on. Caravans u might stumble across them farming and have items on you so you might be more reluctant to attack it, defenders will carry items on the caravan themselfs instead of carry as much as they can persoanly carry thenb leave the rest on there so they cant loose the ones there carrying Guild and node wars are not going to be the same resource sink that sieges will be - the scales will be somewhat different. Cutting off a supply of resources for a guild or node war is probably not going to be worth it. I totally agree that denying resources is likely to be a key aspect of sieges, just not guild and node wars. starving people reasources leading up to seiges is key aswell which is why i want to see resource drops still in wars, And guild wars a big aspect of fighting other guilds is again to slow down there progression either be it via resource denial or area denial so your guild can pull ahead or to push the enemy guild out of the area which gives you the win. Both kinda need material drops. Also no material drops take away risk vs reward factor of the game aswell out of sactioned pvp event aswell in alot of cases aswell
I can't really define exactly what those features are yet because that design stage is still up in the air from a discussion standpoint. There's a lot of different ideas that relates to how those two can come into play, but I will say that in every MMO I've ever played guild wars are very binary. They're very like 'Okay you've declared, you have a number of kills to deaths and the guild war's over, thank you...' My objective to kind of change that dynamic is to include greater risk for the sides to initiate the war and also to make it more objective-based than just a binary kill death ratio; and the fortresses and guild halls come into that type of facilitating that change.[1] – Steven Sharif
Veeshan wrote: » imo gear decay, XP loss should be disable but material drops should remain as death penalty for pvp event, it has to much strategic value in wars and things to weaken a side by denieing them resources cleading up to seigeses and things. Also makes people second guess attacking caravans cause they probaly be farming when they see one go by and there no reason not to attack it since atm u risk nothing but can gain whats the caravan has but if u come across one while farming then u atleast risk the stuff you been farming
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » So you are placing your bets on forcing people to repair their gear and trusting that the attackers keep running objectives, as defenders will too, then maybe they will profit in the end. Naked farming in the woods is a thing since the 90s and I did again last year in Ultima Online.
